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What if a liberal vs conservative civil war broke out in USA

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Who do you think would win?

Conservatives
251
71%
Liberals
103
29%
 
Total votes : 354

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Kash Island
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Kash Island » Sun May 07, 2017 4:16 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Kash Island wrote:
wrong

Groups like Moaists and Islamists will fight the same enemies as liberals, but that won't stop them from fighting liberals themselves.

Christian evangelicals won't have problems fighting with traditional conservatives and libertarians.


They'd definitely have issues on the social side of the coin, wouldn't they? Evangelicals wouldn't like the whole "yeah do whatever" approach that Libertarians take.


They have issues yes, but they are far more able to get long than those other extreme groups that are on the left.
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The East Marches II
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Postby The East Marches II » Sun May 07, 2017 4:16 pm

Empire of Cats wrote:Really, it boils down to rural vs. industrialized. And we've had one round of that. Industry won.


Industry is no longer concentrated in cities as I explained in an earlier post. It is extremely decentralized. You can't just flip a giant plant to making bombs. Those days are far far gone.
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Kash Island
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Postby Kash Island » Sun May 07, 2017 4:17 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Kash Island wrote:
The only reason muslims get along with extreme liberals and communists today is because they all have one thing in common: hating the current system of government in the united states.

they have these common goals. They operate on a purley enemy of my enemy is my freind type of doctrine. You really think Islamists are going to share power with Liberals?


That doesn't put them on the same side though! You're tossing right-wingers on the side of the left-wing and then stating that the left-wing can't get along! Your argument has no base to it because you're grasping at straws to make it work!


Tell me more about how Islamists will spill blood with Liberals...
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Valgora
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Ex-Nation

Postby Valgora » Sun May 07, 2017 4:17 pm

Kash Island wrote:
Valgora wrote:
I think christian evangelicals wouldn't fight traditional conservatives because conservatives tend to be christian and for christian ideals.


exactly


Shit
I read that wrong, I thought you said they wouldn't have problems fighting traditional conservatives and libertarians.

I think christian evangelicals hate libertarians. Christian evangelicals like religion telling everyone what to do and all that shit; libertarians are for liberty and freedoms. Example: look at weed legalization and abortion, (the majority of) christian evangelicals are against it and libertarians are for it.
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Torrocca
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Sun May 07, 2017 4:17 pm

Kash Island wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
That doesn't put them on the same side though! You're tossing right-wingers on the side of the left-wing and then stating that the left-wing can't get along! Your argument has no base to it because you're grasping at straws to make it work!


Tell me more about how Islamists will spill blood with Liberals...


They won't because they're not left-leaning! They're on the right. They'll fight on the Conservative side, but they'll also fight the Conservatives. It's really that simple.
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Kash Island
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Founded: Jan 15, 2017
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kash Island » Sun May 07, 2017 4:18 pm

Valgora wrote:
Kash Island wrote:
exactly


Shit
I read that wrong, I thought you said they wouldn't have problems fighting traditional conservatives and libertarians.

I think christian evangelicals hate libertarians. Christian evangelicals like religion telling everyone what to do and all that shit; libertarians are for liberty and freedoms. Example: look at weed legalization and abortion, (the majority of) christian evangelicals are against it and libertarians are for it.


this is true, but spilling blood? unlikley, neither are out for extreme violence for the most part.
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The East Marches II
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Founded: Mar 11, 2017
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Postby The East Marches II » Sun May 07, 2017 4:18 pm

Valgora wrote:
Kash Island wrote:
exactly


Shit
I read that wrong, I thought you said they wouldn't have problems fighting traditional conservatives and libertarians.

I think christian evangelicals hate libertarians. Christian evangelicals like religion telling everyone what to do and all that shit; libertarians are for liberty and freedoms. Example: look at weed legalization and abortion, (the majority of) christian evangelicals are against it and libertarians are for it.


The Right has a better history of coming together to fight the common enemy. Thats a post-war issue. See: Spain for the prime example.
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Cedoria
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Cedoria » Sun May 07, 2017 4:19 pm

Petrolheadia wrote:Besides the titular question, what do you think would be the outcome?

I reckon it would end with a conservative victory. Not only they are most of the US population (the National Election Pool claims they are 35% of the population, as opposed to the liberal 26%), they also hold most of the firepower, with most soldiers, gun owners, weapon industry employees and militia members being conservative. As a result, the conservatives would likely gerrymander the voting districts to give themselves a high chance of ruling.


They'd destroy each other and the socialists would pick up the pieces...

Whether somebody describes themselves as 'liberal' or 'conservative' is not always relevant to whether they actually are, particularly in the US, were those terms in their modern political usage are divorced from anything resembling their actual meaning...

In many ways I'm a conservative... but I'm nothing like the statist reactionaries who call themselves such in the US.
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Neo Balka
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Founded: Feb 07, 2017
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Postby Neo Balka » Sun May 07, 2017 4:21 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Valgora wrote:
That's not how a civil war like this will work.
Again, this isn't the American Civil War which took place in 1861 to 1865. This hypothetical war is something else.


Tell us how it would work then?


Its almost as if we have new technology that we used to ruin industry in other countries during a certain global conflict some 70 fucking years ago.....

REALLY ACTIVATES THE ALMONDS, DONT IT?
Last edited by Neo Balka on Sun May 07, 2017 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ifreann
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Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Democratic Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Sun May 07, 2017 4:22 pm

Kash Island wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Yeah, that's actually very much not true. Thanks for trying though!



Yes because the Islamists, Liberals, Mexican Nationalists, Maoists are totally going to swing arm and arm together in a fight.

Islam is a pretty conservative religion. Individual Muslims vary, naturally, but I would expect most to be lining up with their conservative brethren, the alt-right Trump fans who want the whole lot of them deported. Ditto the mostly Catholic Hispanic community. Maoism might be economically left wing, but it's hardly liberal. Maoists will be forming battalions with the hippity-hoppity an-caps, no doubt.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Banter For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Snark That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Sarcasm.
He/Him
What do we have that they should want?
We have a wall to work upon!
We have work and they have none
And our work is never done
My children, my children
And the war is never won

The enemy is poverty
And the wall keeps out the enemy
And we build the wall to keep us free
That's why we build the wall
We build the wall to keep us free
We build the wall to keep us free

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Republic of the Roman Nations
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Founded: Jan 14, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Republic of the Roman Nations » Sun May 07, 2017 4:22 pm

Valgora wrote:
Kash Island wrote:
exactly


Shit
I read that wrong, I thought you said they wouldn't have problems fighting traditional conservatives and libertarians.

I think christian evangelicals hate libertarians. Christian evangelicals like religion telling everyone what to do and all that shit; libertarians are for liberty and freedoms. Example: look at weed legalization and abortion, (the majority of) christian evangelicals are against it and libertarians are for it.



Eh, libertarians are indeed for liberty and freedoms but a lot of them (that I know) draw the line at abortion (because of the debate that it infringes on the rights and freedoms of the unborn). But there's no real consensus among libertarians that I see.

It depends on what type of libertarian they are, city folk focus on weed, country folk focus on guns. etc.

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The East Marches II
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Ex-Nation

Postby The East Marches II » Sun May 07, 2017 4:24 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Kash Island wrote:

Yes because the Islamists, Liberals, Mexican Nationalists, Maoists are totally going to swing arm and arm together in a fight.

Islam is a pretty conservative religion. Individual Muslims vary, naturally, but I would expect most to be lining up with their conservative brethren, the alt-right Trump fans who want the whole lot of them deported. Ditto the mostly Catholic Hispanic community. Maoism might be economically left wing, but it's hardly liberal. Maoists will be forming battalions with the hippity-hoppity an-caps, no doubt.


The Hoppean Ancaps are virtually fucking dyed in the wool reactionary by some measures. Its great.
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Kash Island
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Postby Kash Island » Sun May 07, 2017 4:24 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Kash Island wrote:

Yes because the Islamists, Liberals, Mexican Nationalists, Maoists are totally going to swing arm and arm together in a fight.

Islam is a pretty conservative religion. Individual Muslims vary, naturally, but I would expect most to be lining up with their conservative brethren, the alt-right Trump fans who want the whole lot of them deported. Ditto the mostly Catholic Hispanic community. Maoism might be economically left wing, but it's hardly liberal. Maoists will be forming battalions with the hippity-hoppity an-caps, no doubt.


Islamist's will border up their own communities and spread if they can, such is their way.
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Nirvash Type TheEND
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Postby Nirvash Type TheEND » Sun May 07, 2017 4:24 pm

There will be no civil war. Closest approximation would be the years of lead.

The moderates outnumber the far left and right by such a huge margin neither side could ever get the ball rolling.
Last edited by Nirvash Type TheEND on Sun May 07, 2017 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The East Marches II
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Postby The East Marches II » Sun May 07, 2017 4:25 pm

Nirvash Type TheEND wrote:There will be no civil war. Closest approximation would be the years of lead.


Don't bring facts into this
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Republic of the Roman Nations
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Ex-Nation

Postby Republic of the Roman Nations » Sun May 07, 2017 4:26 pm

Nirvash Type TheEND wrote:There will be no civil war. Closest approximation would be the years of lead.


Hey, I'm not the only one whose heard of the Years of Lead. Nice.

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Ifreann
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Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Democratic Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Sun May 07, 2017 4:27 pm

Kash Island wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Islam is a pretty conservative religion. Individual Muslims vary, naturally, but I would expect most to be lining up with their conservative brethren, the alt-right Trump fans who want the whole lot of them deported. Ditto the mostly Catholic Hispanic community. Maoism might be economically left wing, but it's hardly liberal. Maoists will be forming battalions with the hippity-hoppity an-caps, no doubt.


Islamist's will border up their own communities and spread if they can, such is their way.

So in the war between conservatives and liberals, you anticipate Muslims being the "home guard" of conservative communities?
Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Banter For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Snark That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Sarcasm.
He/Him
What do we have that they should want?
We have a wall to work upon!
We have work and they have none
And our work is never done
My children, my children
And the war is never won

The enemy is poverty
And the wall keeps out the enemy
And we build the wall to keep us free
That's why we build the wall
We build the wall to keep us free
We build the wall to keep us free

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Kash Island
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Founded: Jan 15, 2017
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kash Island » Sun May 07, 2017 4:28 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Kash Island wrote:
Islamist's will border up their own communities and spread if they can, such is their way.

So in the war between conservatives and liberals, you anticipate Muslims being the "home guard" of conservative communities?


no not at all, they will be their own faction.

Dearborn Michican will be an islamic stronghold.
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Ifreann
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Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Democratic Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Sun May 07, 2017 4:28 pm

Nirvash Type TheEND wrote:There will be no civil war. Closest approximation would be the years of lead.

The moderates outnumber the far left and right by such a huge margin neither side could ever get the ball rolling.

Liberal vs. conservative, not left vs. right.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Banter For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Snark That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Sarcasm.
He/Him
What do we have that they should want?
We have a wall to work upon!
We have work and they have none
And our work is never done
My children, my children
And the war is never won

The enemy is poverty
And the wall keeps out the enemy
And we build the wall to keep us free
That's why we build the wall
We build the wall to keep us free
We build the wall to keep us free

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 126988
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Democratic Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Sun May 07, 2017 4:30 pm

Kash Island wrote:
Ifreann wrote:So in the war between conservatives and liberals, you anticipate Muslims being the "home guard" of conservative communities?


no not at all, they will be their own faction.

Dearborn Michican will be an islamic stronghold.

So Muslims are neither conservative nor liberal?
Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Banter For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Snark That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Sarcasm.
He/Him
What do we have that they should want?
We have a wall to work upon!
We have work and they have none
And our work is never done
My children, my children
And the war is never won

The enemy is poverty
And the wall keeps out the enemy
And we build the wall to keep us free
That's why we build the wall
We build the wall to keep us free
We build the wall to keep us free

User avatar
Nirvash Type TheEND
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Posts: 14736
Founded: Oct 19, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Nirvash Type TheEND » Sun May 07, 2017 4:30 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Nirvash Type TheEND wrote:There will be no civil war. Closest approximation would be the years of lead.

The moderates outnumber the far left and right by such a huge margin neither side could ever get the ball rolling.

Liberal vs. conservative, not left vs. right.

oh boy there's no left wing in the united states

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Kash Island
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Founded: Jan 15, 2017
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kash Island » Sun May 07, 2017 4:31 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Kash Island wrote:
no not at all, they will be their own faction.

Dearborn Michican will be an islamic stronghold.

So Muslims are neither conservative nor liberal?


They are conservative, but there ideals will directly butt heads with Christians.
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Torrocca
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Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Sun May 07, 2017 4:33 pm

Kash Island wrote:
Ifreann wrote:So Muslims are neither conservative nor liberal?


They are conservative, but there ideals will directly butt heads with Christians.


Which means that the Conservatives aren't working together as well as you suggested they would.

Funny, ain't that?
Anarchy's my name AND my game. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Al fascismo no se le discute, se le destruye/Fascism is not discussed, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
You probably have my idea of Communism wrong.
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3

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Kash Island
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Founded: Jan 15, 2017
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kash Island » Sun May 07, 2017 4:34 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Kash Island wrote:
They are conservative, but there ideals will directly butt heads with Christians.


Which means that the Conservatives aren't working together as well as you suggested they would.

Funny, ain't that?


wow...I can't even....

you understand that traditional american conservatives and christian conservatives in the United States are FAR differen't than "islamic" ones right?
Last edited by Kash Island on Sun May 07, 2017 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Major Exports: Aviator Sunglasses,Cybernetics, tanning lotion, Fast Cars, Disgruntled Detectives, Beach Body's, Rainy Dystopias, Retro Synthwave Music
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Torrocca
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Posts: 21472
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Sun May 07, 2017 4:35 pm

Kash Island wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Which means that the Conservatives aren't working together as well as you suggested they would.

Funny, ain't that?


wow...I can't even....

you understand that traditional american conservatives and christian conservatives in the United States are FAR differen't than "islamic" ones right?


Islamic Conservatives in America are still Conservatives, therefore putting them on the Conservative side of this hypothetical civil war, therefore making the Conservative side less united than you first claimed.
Anarchy's my name AND my game. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Al fascismo no se le discute, se le destruye/Fascism is not discussed, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
You probably have my idea of Communism wrong.
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3

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