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Independent: The OK sign is racist!

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Hirota
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Independent: The OK sign is racist!

Postby Hirota » Mon May 01, 2017 2:04 pm

So, we are talking about that ok sign. Here is another example. And have one more.

Anyway, according to this particular article published on the independent (a UK newspaper - it has a larger readership than the Guardian according to Newsworks), it's a secret white supremacy sign.

http://archive.is/sS3rl

Two members of alt-right accused of making white supremacist hand signs in White House after receiving press passes
The journalists say the hand symbol is innocent - but it has been condemned as 'racist' by the Anti-Defamation League

Two conservative journalists have sparked outcry on social media by making what some have interpreted as a white supremacist hand symbol at a recent visit to the White House.

Freelance journalist Mike Cernovich and Cassandra Fairbanks, a reporter for Russian news outlet Sputnik, posed for a picture behind the podium in the White House briefing room. In the photo, they are making a hand sign that can be used to signify “white power.”

“Just two people doing a white power hand gesture in the White House,” Fusion senior reporter Emma Roller tweeted, alongside a screenshot of the picture.

Ms Fairbanks, however, claims the hand gesture was not a reference to the white power movement. She pointed to her partial Puerto Rican heritage as evidence that she is not a white supremacist.

“White power!!!!!!! Except I'm Puerto Rican. Can it be PR power?!” she tweeted.

Ms Fairbanks’ supporters point out that the hand symbol is also used to mean “OK.” Photos show people of all races using the symbol to signify that everything is “alright.”
he symbol, however, has become more contentious with the rise of the alt-right – a far-right contingent in the United States that rejects both mainstream conservatism and liberal ideologies. The self-proclaimed founder of the alt-right, Richard Spencer, is a well-known white supremacist.

Alt-right journalist Lucian Wintrich, a writer for The Gateway Pundit, sparked outcry when he flashed the symbol in a similar picture at the White House in February. Notorious alt-right personality Milo Yiannopoulos also frequently flashes the symbol.

The resurgence of the symbol may be traced back to a popular alt-right meme, known as “smug Pepe,” which began circulating on alt-right, pro-Trump message boards in 2015. Mr Trump often uses the symbol when speaking, explaining its significance with the president’s supporters.

The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) characterises the symbol as a “racist hand sign.”

“Some white supremacists, particularly in California, may use a two-handed hand sign in which one hand forms the letter ‘W’ and the other hand forms the letter ‘P,’ to represent WP or ‘White Power,’” an entry in the ADL’s hate symbols database reads.

Ms Fairbanks joined notoriety when she moved from supporting Senator Bernie Sanders to supporting Mr Trump for president. She now frequently speaks out against Islamic terrorism and the Black Lives Matter movement. Her employer, Sputnik, applied for White House press credentials last month.

Mr Cernovich is the founder of the men’s rights blog Danger & Play, and author of the book “MAGA Mindset: Making YOU and America Great Again.” He received White House press credentials on 25 April.


So the question is - does really anyone believe this?

Soo, okay, journalist writes article claiming the ADL believes the OK sign is racist. Since thats pretty easy to look up (even for a journalist - or so you'd imagine), lets spend twenty seconds googling that.

https://www.adl.org/education/references/hate-symbols/white-power-hand-sign

Doesn't look anything like it to me - have the ADL put out a statement about it? Looks like they have a few places to put out updates on their site. Maybe it's a new thing.

https://www.adl.org/blog/no-the-ok-gesture-is-not-a-hate-symbol

Oh well, never mind. Lets read the blog and see if they can explain.

No, the "OK" Gesture Is Not a Hate Symbol

Has the simple thumb-and-forefinger “OK” hand gesture become a white supremacist hand sign? Well, no, it hasn’t, but you are likely to hear just the opposite from social media, thanks to the latest hoax from members of notorious website 4chan.

The site 4chan is an anonymous discussion board with an outsized cultural impact on the Internet. It has been responsible for everything from the “I can haz cheeseburger” cat meme to the concept of rickrolling. There is little that 4channers like so much as a hoax and in recent months they have served up a number of fakeries with white supremacist themes to largely credulous on-line audiences.

The “OK” hand gesture hoax originated in February 2017 when an anonymous 4channer announced “Operation O-KKK,” telling other members that “we must flood Twitter and other social media websites…claiming that the OK hand sign is a symbol of white supremacy.” The user even provided a helpful graphic showing how the letters WP (for “white power”) could be traced within an “OK” gesture. The originator and others also suggested useful hashtags to help spread the hoax, such as #PowerHandPrivilege and #NotOkay. “Leftists have dug so deep down into their lunacy,” wrote the poster, “We must force [them] to dig more, until the rest of society ain’t going anywhere near that s***.”

Following the cues of the hoax’s originator, 4channers created fake e-mail and Twitter accounts and bombarded civil rights organizations, journalists, and others with messages furthering the “OK” hoax. Some of the hoaxers were possibly racists or white supremacists themselves, as parts of 4chan are something of a haven for them and the site itself has been a source of adherents of the alt right segment of the white supremacist movement.

The original launch of “Operation O-KKK” sputtered after a few days and it seemed that the hoax had run its course without spreading too far, but it picked up again in late April and this time was far more successful in spreading across social media—and beyond.

The “OK” hoax was actually just the most recent in a recent series of hoaxes in which 4channers (and members of other, similar places on the Internet such as 8chan and Reddit) have tried to take innocuous items, symbols or gestures and falsely attribute white supremacist meanings to them in order to fool liberals and get them to spread such false messages.

One recent 4chan thread devoted itself to brainstorming the next such hoax. “We need to make some pics that are warning parents about what the dab really means and spread it around,” wrote one 4channer (the “dab” is a popular dance move). Another 4channer suggested spreading the notion that clapping was “anti-feminist.”

One of the more successful of these recent 4chan hoaxes, also originating in February 2017, was the concept that white supremacists were drinking milk to show “the superiority of the white race” and the “purity of white milk.” One hoaxer trying to convince the Anti-Defamation League “explained” that “they are chugging milk in front of people of color, quoting racist books and phrases and supposed statistics about people of color being lactose intolerant.” Even a number of media websites bought into the milk hoax.

Another such hoax was the attempt by 4channers to convince people that white supremacists had adopted a popular polar bear emoji from the messenger app Kik as a white supremacist symbol. In recent days, ADL has received e-mails from other would-be hoaxers attempting to claim that white supremacists had adopted symbols ranging from the rainbow flag to the iFunny chef (the mascot of humor website iFunny) as new hate symbols.

The fact that all of these hoaxes have emerged in recent months is not a coincidence; they are a reaction to the surge of media attention given to white supremacy, especially the alt right, in the wake of the 2016 election campaign. They are also a response to the willingness of many on the left in the United States to believe that the Trump administration is full of hardcore white supremacists, a belief so powerful that recently a photo of White House staffer Stephen Miller adjusting his suit and tie before an interview went viral with the claim that Miller was actually using his hands to form an obscure white supremacist hand sign for “white power” as a secret signal to white supremacists who might be watching. It is this willingness to believe that 4channers have been trying to exploit.

The reality is, though, that white supremacist symbols and signs do not form and become accepted overnight. “Leaving aside hate group logos, most hate symbols appear and spread organically, over time,” said Mark Pitcavage, Senior Research Fellow in ADL’s Center on Extremism. “The process of acceptance and growth in use typically takes months or even years, even for on-line symbols. If someone presents you with a symbol and says it is the big new white supremacist symbol, you should be appropriately skeptical.”


So I spent 10 minutes performing basic fact-checking (aka doing a journalists job) to discover it's all bullshit. Journo looks useless for not doing job, is more keen to push a narrative than to do things properly. Newspaper looks dumb for allowing trash without quality control, Right wing gets to point out how left-leaning press is as bad as the fake news they claim to hate, and 4chan proves once again it can do anything to make other people look stupid.

<sigh> Look, I get wanting to embarass one's ideological opponents. But if you can't do that and keep integrity at the same time, you've lost the argument.
Last edited by Hirota on Mon May 01, 2017 9:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Neo Balka
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Postby Neo Balka » Mon May 01, 2017 2:09 pm

Top kek.
The mere fact that i pissed someone off either means i stood for something or i said something offensive.
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Aelex
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Postby Aelex » Mon May 01, 2017 2:10 pm

Oh, and it's far from being the only secret sign us cis white hetero males use to oppress poor minorities. In case you didn't knew, we also use this one too. *nod nod*
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36 Camera Perspective
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Postby 36 Camera Perspective » Mon May 01, 2017 2:12 pm

Pretty stupid.
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Postby Thermodolia » Mon May 01, 2017 2:12 pm

Aelex wrote:Oh, and it's far from being the only secret sign us cis white hetero males use to oppress poor minorities. In case you didn't knew, we also use this one too. *nod nod*

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Postby San Marlindo » Mon May 01, 2017 2:23 pm

These people desperately need better hobbies.
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Postby Gurori » Mon May 01, 2017 2:26 pm

So going by their logic, any hand gestures that have been used from Hitler are racists?

Up next: Waving is racist!
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Postby Vassenor » Mon May 01, 2017 2:29 pm

Pretty sure it started on 4chan as a way to get WS people to do stupid things on camera.
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Postby Baltenstein » Mon May 01, 2017 2:32 pm

President Erdogan would have you know that the sign in question isn't actually racist, but, much worse, a secret gay signal:

ANKARA (Reuters) - Two Turkish caricaturists have been fined for insulting President Tayyip Erdogan after a court ruled that one of their cartoons implied he was gay, local media said on Wednesday.

Bahadir Baruter and Ozer Aydogan were prosecuted for an illustration on the front page of satirical magazine Penguen last August in which an official greeted Erdogan while apparently making a circle with his thumb and forefinger.

Prosecutors launched the indictment after a citizen complained that the hand signal, commonly used in Turkey to insult homosexuals, was against the country's moral values.

Lawyers representing Erdogan then got involved in the case, demanding that the court punish the cartoonists for "insulting a public official", Hurriyet newspaper reported.

Penguen had no immediate comment, but the cartoonists were quoted by Hurriyet as denying the charges and saying no such implication was intended.

They were initially sentenced to 11 months in prison but the court immediately reduced this to a 7,000 lira ($2,740) fine because of good conduct during the trial.

Erdogan, who brooks little dissent, has dominated politics for more than a decade in Sunni Muslim Turkey, where homosexuality is widely frowned upon.

Others to fall foul of his sensitivities include a former Miss Turkey winner, who is facing a possible jail term for allegedly insulting him on social media, and a 13-year old boy who was this month questioned over a Facebook post.


http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/i ... 7120150325
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Postby Gallia- » Mon May 01, 2017 2:37 pm

Gurori wrote:So going by their logic, any hand gestures that have been used from Hitler are racists?

Up next: Waving is racist!


Image

rip ur flag

Baltenstein wrote:President Erdogan would have you know that the sign in question isn't actually racist, but, much worse, a secret gay signal:


This is actually legitimate though. Like how thumbs-up means "up yours" or "fuck you" or something similar in Central and Southwest Asia so basically Greece to Iran, bits of Africa, and bits of the Mediterranean.

http://www.scienceofpeople.com/2014/07/ ... ng-abroad/

The A-OK signal is also a sign you should not display in Greece. Here, this gesture is the symbol for homosexuality. Showing this gesture to someone means that either you or the other person is gay, which again, is probably not your intended meaning.


Applies in Turkey as well, apparently.

These guys knew what they were doing.
Last edited by Gallia- on Mon May 01, 2017 2:42 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Postby Conserative Morality » Mon May 01, 2017 2:56 pm

Ms Fairbanks, however, claims the hand gesture was not a reference to the white power movement. She pointed to her partial Puerto Rican heritage as evidence that she is not a white supremacist.

“White power!!!!!!! Except I'm Puerto Rican. Can it be PR power?!” she tweeted.

Not impressed by the racism explanation, but are people really stupid enough to think that ancestry is a get-out-of-accusations-of-racism-free card?
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Postby 36 Camera Perspective » Mon May 01, 2017 2:58 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Ms Fairbanks, however, claims the hand gesture was not a reference to the white power movement. She pointed to her partial Puerto Rican heritage as evidence that she is not a white supremacist.

“White power!!!!!!! Except I'm Puerto Rican. Can it be PR power?!” she tweeted.

Not impressed by the racism explanation, but are people really stupid enough to think that ancestry is a get-out-of-accusations-of-racism-free card?


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Postby Wallenburg » Mon May 01, 2017 2:58 pm

I've heard that in some culture or another it is a vulgar hand gesture, but no, it is not racist.
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Postby Liriena » Mon May 01, 2017 3:14 pm

The article doesn't really pull the accusation out of nowhere. It clearly states that the Anti-Defamation League was the one that cried foul over the sign, and given context it is not a total exaggeration. The Independent is merely reporting on it, and the fact is that a sign need not have just one meaning, and a sign can be assigned an inoffensive meaning in some contexts while it's also assigned an offensive meaning elsewhere. This particular sign can be both an "OK" sign and a white supremacist sign.

Misleading OP is misleading.
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Postby Thermodolia » Mon May 01, 2017 3:19 pm

Liriena wrote:The article doesn't really pull the accusation out of nowhere. It clearly states that the Anti-Defamation League was the one that cried foul over the sign, and given context it is not a total exaggeration. The Independent is merely reporting on it, and the fact is that a sign need not have just one meaning, and a sign can be assigned an inoffensive meaning in some contexts while it's also assigned an offensive meaning elsewhere. This particular sign can be both an "OK" sign and a white supremacist sign.

Misleading OP is misleading.

The ADL didn't cry foul.
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Postby Galloism » Mon May 01, 2017 3:21 pm

Baltenstein wrote:President Erdogan would have you know that the sign in question isn't actually racist, but, much worse, a secret gay signal:

ANKARA (Reuters) - Two Turkish caricaturists have been fined for insulting President Tayyip Erdogan after a court ruled that one of their cartoons implied he was gay, local media said on Wednesday.

Bahadir Baruter and Ozer Aydogan were prosecuted for an illustration on the front page of satirical magazine Penguen last August in which an official greeted Erdogan while apparently making a circle with his thumb and forefinger.

Prosecutors launched the indictment after a citizen complained that the hand signal, commonly used in Turkey to insult homosexuals, was against the country's moral values.

Lawyers representing Erdogan then got involved in the case, demanding that the court punish the cartoonists for "insulting a public official", Hurriyet newspaper reported.

Penguen had no immediate comment, but the cartoonists were quoted by Hurriyet as denying the charges and saying no such implication was intended.

They were initially sentenced to 11 months in prison but the court immediately reduced this to a 7,000 lira ($2,740) fine because of good conduct during the trial.

Erdogan, who brooks little dissent, has dominated politics for more than a decade in Sunni Muslim Turkey, where homosexuality is widely frowned upon.

Others to fall foul of his sensitivities include a former Miss Turkey winner, who is facing a possible jail term for allegedly insulting him on social media, and a 13-year old boy who was this month questioned over a Facebook post.


http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/i ... 7120150325

Gay white supremacists?
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Postby Herskerstad » Mon May 01, 2017 3:21 pm

Oh 4chan successfully baited lots of people with something similar again.
Image
Last edited by Herskerstad on Mon May 01, 2017 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Liriena » Mon May 01, 2017 3:22 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Liriena wrote:The article doesn't really pull the accusation out of nowhere. It clearly states that the Anti-Defamation League was the one that cried foul over the sign, and given context it is not a total exaggeration. The Independent is merely reporting on it, and the fact is that a sign need not have just one meaning, and a sign can be assigned an inoffensive meaning in some contexts while it's also assigned an offensive meaning elsewhere. This particular sign can be both an "OK" sign and a white supremacist sign.

Misleading OP is misleading.

The ADL didn't cry foul.

My bad. They consider the sign racist, but they were not the ones who pointed it out in this particular incident.

Galloism wrote:Gay white supremacists?

Well, Milo Yiannopoulos is a real person.
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Postby Conserative Morality » Mon May 01, 2017 3:25 pm

Herskerstad wrote:Oh 4chan successfully baited lots of people with something similar again.

"Let's be super racist and associate this unrelated symbol with it."

"Fuck off racists."

"JOKES ON YOU I WAS ONLY BEING RACIST TO ASSOCIATE THE SYMBOL WITH MY RACISM"

Unimpressed.
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Postby Galloism » Mon May 01, 2017 3:25 pm

Liriena wrote:
Galloism wrote:Gay white supremacists?

Well, Milo Yiannopoulos is a real person.

[Citation Needed]
Last edited by Galloism on Mon May 01, 2017 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Liriena » Mon May 01, 2017 3:27 pm

Galloism wrote:
Liriena wrote:

Well, Milo Yiannopoulos is a real person.

[Citation Needed]

Either that, or CGI is going to some dark places.
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Postby Liriena » Mon May 01, 2017 3:29 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Herskerstad wrote:Oh 4chan successfully baited lots of people with something similar again.

"Let's be super racist and associate this unrelated symbol with it."

"Fuck off racists."

"JOKES ON YOU I WAS ONLY BEING RACIST TO ASSOCIATE THE SYMBOL WITH MY RACISM"

Unimpressed.

If 4chan claims credit for it, it must be true!

Remember when they claimed credit for the Trump-Russia dossier... only for the real author to surface afterwards and the intelligence community to admit that some aspects of it were totally true?
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Postby Herskerstad » Mon May 01, 2017 3:34 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Herskerstad wrote:Oh 4chan successfully baited lots of people with something similar again.

"Let's be super racist and associate this unrelated symbol with it."

"Fuck off racists."

"JOKES ON YOU I WAS ONLY BEING RACIST TO ASSOCIATE THE SYMBOL WITH MY RACISM"

Unimpressed.


Or maybe they know racebaiters who never fail to take the bait would go for it. After all, by this metric, our history of white supremacy in basketball becomes quite the controversy because it can't just be a sign of general approval. It has to be white supremacy code.

Image

Image

Image
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Ex-Nation

Postby Conserative Morality » Mon May 01, 2017 3:36 pm

Herskerstad wrote:Or maybe they know racebaiters who never fail to take the bait would go for it. After all, by this metric, our history of white supremacy in basketball becomes quite the controversy because it can't just be a sign of general approval. It has to be white supremacy code.




Yep, and ancient Hindus believed in white supremacy.

I'm not sure you understand how tainting a symbol works.
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