Trump MAGAthread VI

[The East Marches II]

No, I don't. Many, many Germans are weak willed. It's honestly a shame. The pool of recruits is becoming more and more limited as the military is seen as a dead end.

It's honestly baffling how they can be surprised that ultranationalists can develop a significant presence within their military considering the anti-militarism that exists within the wider population.

Germans don't want a war, but they would fight tooth and nail against Russia. 1980 wasn't that long ago.

With what guns and what tanks? They don't even have enough small arns.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Are you sure military force would even deter them in the South China Sea? We'd be fighting a foe across the Pacific, one who lacks blue-water naval capability but has plenty of brown and green water threats as well as a huge air force. Meanwhile, US-China trade collapses along with the global economy, with untold billions of investment in China being wiped out in an instant.

Yes, you should read Kissinger's On China for a good idea of how they think and operate.

Or I could ask Wei. Overall, I'd be scare shitless of Sino American war right now

[Napkiraly]

You underestimate Germany, I think. Russian occupation would result in basically exactly the militaristic kind of illiberal regime they've spent the past 3/4s of a century guilting and terrifying themselves over. In the event of an actual Russian attack on Europe, Germany's problem wouldn't be will, but capabilities.

I wouldn't trust Germany these days. Their equipment and hardware numbers is low. Their morale exceptionally low. If it was during 1980's then it'd be a completely reverse opinion.

Yes, the West German military was quite capable in the 1980's. Germany used to be a formidable force but now it is just a shadow of its former self. Daily reminder that the West German military was heavily influenced by old Wehrmacht officers. It was a spiritual successor in a number of ways to it.

*Cries knowing that the Germans may very well strip this from the German military psyche due to recent events*

[Uxupox]

Germans don't want a war, but they would fight tooth and nail against Russia. 1980 wasn't that long ago.

With what guns and what tanks? They don't even have enough small arns.

With boomsticks. What else.

[Olerand]

Not really sure why we're actually discussing the possibility of a Russian invasion of Europe and an American counter-invasion as if the Cold War never ended. Russia couldn't invade us for shit. And we still have nukes that would hold them off long enough (if the situation were truly that desperate) that America could come save us or what have you without having to do another landing at Normandy.

If you are weak, then you invite somebody to try it. Moscow would be right to question whether the moralists in Europe or the gentlemen in Paris have the guts to pull the trigger on nukes. You can't stop Turkey from blackmail without a moral quandary. It's another Cold War already. That ship has sailed.

This applies to Germany only. We didn't make a deal with the Turks, we didn't do anything really.

Also, saying this is a cold war gives Russia far more influence and power than it really has. Russia wants it to be a cold war. But it's not a cold war when Russia is bogged down in Ukraine a few kilometers from its own borders.

Finally, who would try it? The whole point of the French nuclear program is not to get wiped out. That's the only reason it exists. If we're about to be wiped out, then it would be used. For that is its sole purpose.

[Internationalist Bastard]

They don't. If we count reserves, RGF has about a little over 1 million troops. That's a lot, but the Nazis had some 18 mil back in ww2, and look how that went

Are those complete numbers? And not just battle phase numbers?

That's complete. Not even just combat personnel.

[Uxupox]

Are those complete numbers? And not just battle phase numbers?

That's complete. Not even just combat personnel.

Honestly that's a shit ton.

[Napkiraly]

No, I don't. Many, many Germans are weak willed. It's honestly a shame. The pool of recruits is becoming more and more limited as the military is seen as a dead end.

It's honestly baffling how they can be surprised that ultranationalists can develop a significant presence within their military considering the anti-militarism that exists within the wider population.

Germans don't want a war, but they would fight tooth and nail against Russia.

Within their nationalist parts of society? Perhaps, they'd certainly be a good resistance movement. But the majority of the German population? No, I don't think so. I've met plenty of Germans and they do not have that martial spirit in them whatsoever any more. Especially the young ones.

[Lady Scylla]

Germans don't want a war, but they would fight tooth and nail against Russia. 1980 wasn't that long ago.

With what guns and what tanks? They don't even have enough small arns.

I imagine they've some stocked somewhere. We're also treating these invasions like they're in a vacuum -- it suits your lot's defeatist bullshit, but given arm's contributions and retaliation from other nations around the globe -- the results might be more surprising.

[The East Marches II]

Yes, you should read Kissinger's On China for a good idea of how they think and operate.

Or I could ask Wei. Overall, I'd be scare shitless of Sino American war right now

They are conciliatory when faced with overwhelming odds. We aren't strong enough to crush their spirit of resistance. Like the Kaiser, they think they can compete. It will cost us both lots of money and risk war because we didn't deal with them early.

[Conserative Morality]

And they are still increasingly becoming more tied with them as their economies become more intertwined with China's. China is being aggressive but not as flashy as the Russians are but the Chinese are seeking to replace the United States, make no mistake about that.

And more intertwined with our's. It's globalization, not national realignment. As recently as the 90s the US and Vietnam, for example, were on poor terms. Now we're one of their biggest trading partners. Vietnam wasn't buddy-buddy with China before that; it won't suddenly become buddy-buddy now, especially since we're a viable alternative.

No, I don't. Many, many Germans are weak willed. It's honestly a shame. The pool of recruits is becoming more and more limited as the military is seen as a dead end.

Militaries in peacetime populations often are. I have family that remembers the 30s - the US wasn't that different. Hard times create determined people - they're made, not born. And often made very quickly.

[Lady Scylla]

Germans don't want a war, but they would fight tooth and nail against Russia.

Within their nationalist parts of society? Perhaps, they'd certainly be a good resistance movement. But the majority of the German population? No, I don't think so. I've met plenty of Germans and they do not have that martial spirit in them whatsoever any more. Especially the young ones.

I talk to Germans everyday. I disagree. And fuck nationalism.

[Uxupox]

With what guns and what tanks? They don't even have enough small arns.

I imagine they've some stocked somewhere. We're also treating these invasions like they're in a vacuum -- it suits your lot's defeatist bullshit, but given arm's contributions and retaliation from other nations around the globe -- the results might be more surprising.

In an imaginary place maybe.

[Olerand]

Greece has been tied more and more to Europe financially speaking. And remember - Orthodox are not like Catholics - each national church is autocephalous.

If I recall correctly, SIRIZA recently tried to get Putin to print a new Greek currency and basically use them as a puppet against the EU.

Naturally, Putin told them to fuck off, but the relationship is still there nonetheless. In the event of a war between NATO and Russia, then at the very least, it is unlikely Greece would be a particularly passionate ally.

It wouldn't be passionate (Russia is also Orthodox, which matters to quite a few older Greeks) but it would still be an ally. Not to mention that the polls show Syriza is headed for a defeat in the next election.

[Conserative Morality]

Yes, the West German military was quite capable in the 1980's. Germany used to be a formidable force but now it is just a shadow of its former self. Daily reminder that the West German military was heavily influenced by old Wehrmacht officers. It was a spiritual successor in a number of ways to it.

*Cries knowing that the Germans may very well strip this from the German military psyche due to recent events*

Good. The Wehrmacht is not the only German military tradition in existence, and is often overestimated by goddamn Wehraboos.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I imagine they've some stocked somewhere. We're also treating these invasions like they're in a vacuum -- it suits your lot's defeatist bullshit, but given arm's contributions and retaliation from other nations around the globe -- the results might be more surprising.

In an imaginary place maybe.

Tis a shame how far Germany has fallen, their military is a joke nowadays.

[The East Marches II]

With what guns and what tanks? They don't even have enough small arns.

I imagine they've some stocked somewhere. We're also treating these invasions like they're in a vacuum -- it suits your lot's defeatist bullshit, but given arm's contributions and retaliation from other nations around the globe -- the results might be more surprising.

They aren't. They scrapped them like fools. If you want to live in the world of 20 years ago that's on you. The rest of us have to live in the real world. Fantacism and will doesn't make up for firepower and tanks. Other nations can't get there in time, how will they send their troops? We are the only ones that can move things and we will be tied up. It's defeatist if you don't take the steps for victory or correct a failing situation because you believe it lost. This is one case where Trump is right to hold their noses in it like dogs that pissed in the living room. That's how we win.

[Conserative Morality]

In an imaginary place maybe.

Military equipment is usually mothballed rather than sold or scrapped. It's cheaper to store something away than it is for another nation to retool logistics for a new kind of toy.

[Olerand]

In an imaginary place maybe.

Tis a shame how far Germany has fallen, their military is a joke nowadays.

Um no, it's OK. They should pull their weight a little more definitely, but overall, Europe is more comfortable with an under-militarized Germany than an over-militarized one.

[The East Marches II]

In an imaginary place maybe.

Military equipment is usually mothballed rather than sold or scrapped. It's cheaper to store something away than it is for another nation to retool logistics for a new kind of toy.

Those idiots paid to scrap theirs. I shit you not. Fucking Germans.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Or I could ask Wei. Overall, I'd be scare shitless of Sino American war right now

They are conciliatory when faced with overwhelming odds. We aren't strong enough to crush their spirit of resistance. Like the Kaiser, they think they can compete. It will cost us both lots of money and risk war because we didn't deal with them early.

PRC's scarier then you'd think, they're updating rapidly, I can personally vouch their small arms are better then the US' at any rate. I don't think war would be a guaranteed win for the States by any measure

[Lady Scylla]

I imagine they've some stocked somewhere. We're also treating these invasions like they're in a vacuum -- it suits your lot's defeatist bullshit, but given arm's contributions and retaliation from other nations around the globe -- the results might be more surprising.

In an imaginary place maybe.

You call yourself a military person, yet aren't aware that we're not going to get full details on military resources and capabilities. Even looking up armour composition for a Challenger 2 from Britain's forces gets you a CLASSIFIED.

Armour Chobham / Dorchester Level 2 (classified)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Challenger_2

[Uxupox]

In an imaginary place maybe.

Military equipment is usually mothballed rather than sold or scrapped. It's cheaper to store something away than it is for another nation to retool logistics for a new kind of toy.

If it's mothballed it is still considered to be used in training sessions and in official logistical numbers.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Military equipment is usually mothballed rather than sold or scrapped. It's cheaper to store something away than it is for another nation to retool logistics for a new kind of toy.

Those idiots paid to scrap theirs. I shit you not. Fucking Germans.

Some of it was sold off, I have it on good authority that there's at least one Leopard MBT that made it onto the American civilian market.

[Conserative Morality]

They aren't. They scrapped them like fools. If you want to live in the world of 20 years ago that's on you. The rest of us have to live in the real world. Fantacism and will doesn't make up for firepower and tanks. Other nations can't get there in time, how will they send their troops? We are the only ones that can move things and we will be tied up. It's defeatist if you don't take the steps for victory or correct a failing situation because you believe it lost. This is one case where Trump is right to hold their noses in it like dogs that pissed in the living room. That's how we win.

They only recently announced that they're putting almost a hundred mothballed Leopard 2s back into service. They scrapped quite a few, but out of a huge arsenal like Germany's old one, the number still pales in comparison to the total.