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Ism
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6152
Founded: Oct 14, 2011
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ism » Wed May 17, 2017 9:25 am

Saiwania wrote:
Ashmoria wrote:Russia will never be on our side.


There is still plenty of common ground to be found. How is Russia being against ISIS in Syria not a good thing? The way to have a successful foreign policy with Russia is to simply treat them as the country they are- a world power with their own self interests like the US does.

Russia's deal is that its people have never ever seen themselves as inferior to the US in any way, they consider themselves as an equal but the US' foreign policy has a bad habit of belittling them. Russia is no longer lost in the wilderness like it was in the 1990's, they've recovered and are arguably less of an enemy to the US than China, yet China has a ton of trade with the US, despite the fact that China pretty much does nothing but wage economic warfare against the US. Stealing patents and copyrights left and right.

Imagine a world where the US, China, and Russia, along with every other major power, is on the same page with regards to certain things: green energy revolution, nuclear disarmament, and getting rid of Islamic fundamentalism the world over. Why shouldn't a more stable and inclusive world order be made when it very much is possible? It definitely won't be brought about by only ever being hostile to your competitors.


Russia is a state in decline, with a declining population, mass alcoholism, nearly ubiquitous corruption and is more oligarchic than democratic. It has an economy heavily reliant on petrol, a declining industry (it was in part due to the drop in oil prices in the 80s that brought the USSR tumbling down) and has an economy slightly larger than Spain's regardless, which is about a 18th of the US's and a 11th of China's. It is not cut out to be a world power, and if it tries again it will only divert resources from fixing the many domestic issue it faces, again. Putin is a strongman using the West and tribalism as a boogeyman to placate his people and distract them from their crappy lives. Russia is a state in decline, that needs to get its house in order before I see it as anything more than a pariah state trying to relive its glory days to avoid facing the dire situation it find itself in. Russia is not a stabilizing force, but a polarizing one.

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Ashmoria
Post Czar
 
Posts: 46718
Founded: Mar 19, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ashmoria » Wed May 17, 2017 9:39 am

Luminesa wrote:
Ashmoria wrote:he will always be the married man who called for a whore from the floor of congress.

So resolving the issue and getting right with your wife and children means nothing. You mess up once, you mess-up for all eternity. Right.

But we're getting off-topic.

I think the "Would Trump stop the Civil War" question is an interesting one. Considering that multiple presidents in the North before Lincoln did nothing to try and prevent the war (especially looking at James Buchanan), I personally think Trump would have at least taken some action. Whether or not it would have been good actions would be up for debate, however.

that's up to the voters

trump is incompetent at politics. he wouldn't be able to do anything right.
whatever

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Ashmoria
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Posts: 46718
Founded: Mar 19, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ashmoria » Wed May 17, 2017 9:43 am

Saiwania wrote:
Ashmoria wrote:Russia will never be on our side.


There is still plenty of common ground to be found. How is Russia being against ISIS in Syria not a good thing? The way to have a successful foreign policy with Russia is to simply treat them as the country they are- a world power with their own self interests like the US does.

Russia is in Syria to support the assad regime. that is their first priority. they want to kill the rebels. we want to support the rebels.
whatever

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Dylar
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Posts: 7116
Founded: Jan 07, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Dylar » Wed May 17, 2017 9:50 am

Ashmoria wrote:
Saiwania wrote:
There is still plenty of common ground to be found. How is Russia being against ISIS in Syria not a good thing? The way to have a successful foreign policy with Russia is to simply treat them as the country they are- a world power with their own self interests like the US does.

Russia is in Syria to support the assad regime. that is their first priority. they want to kill the rebels. we want to support the rebels.

But we can't trust the rebels because of potential ISIS operatives within the rebels, and, maybe even potential ISIS operatives in Assad's regime.
St. Albert the Great wrote:"Natural science does not consist in ratifying what others have said, but in seeking the causes of phenomena."
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Saiwania
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22269
Founded: Jun 30, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Saiwania » Wed May 17, 2017 9:55 am

Ashmoria wrote:Russia is in Syria to support the assad regime. that is their first priority. they want to kill the rebels. we want to support the rebels.


The US shouldn't be supporting the Syrian rebels, with the sole exception of the Peshmerga. The FSA and every other faction in Syria's civil war are all Islamic fundamentalists who are no better than Al Qaeda at best. It drives me crazy how there are enough stupid people in the US government to want to depose Assad but think absolutely nothing about the power vacuum that would result or what is supposed to come afterwards.

The only outcome which is certain from pursuing this stupid policy of being against Assad is that the region will be lit on fire or needlessly prolong Syria's civil war. History has shown the disaster brought about by regime changes which failed to win the peace, such as in post Saddam Iraq and in Libya.
Last edited by Saiwania on Wed May 17, 2017 9:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Thermodolia
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Posts: 78485
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Wed May 17, 2017 9:56 am

Male, Jewish, lives somewhere in AZ, Disabled US Military Veteran, Oorah!, I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
Click for Da Funies

RIP Dya

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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34994
Founded: Dec 18, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Wed May 17, 2017 9:59 am


Is it happening? It might be happening.

But I don't want my heartbroken again, so low hopes for me.

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Ashmoria
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Posts: 46718
Founded: Mar 19, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ashmoria » Wed May 17, 2017 10:10 am

Dylar wrote:
Ashmoria wrote: Russia is in Syria to support the assad regime. that is their first priority. they want to kill the rebels. we want to support the rebels.

But we can't trust the rebels because of potential ISIS operatives within the rebels, and, maybe even potential ISIS operatives in Assad's regime.

irrelevant.
whatever

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Ashmoria
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Posts: 46718
Founded: Mar 19, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ashmoria » Wed May 17, 2017 10:12 am

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:

Is it happening? It might be happening.

But I don't want my heartbroken again, so low hopes for me.

its all part of "trump derangement syndrome" where people think they will be saved from the horror of having a corrupt, incompetent president.
whatever

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House Quark
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 11
Founded: May 04, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby House Quark » Wed May 17, 2017 10:13 am

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:

Is it happening? It might be happening.

But I don't want my heartbroken again, so low hopes for me.


Well don't get your hopes up. To be Impeached you must have committed a crime and collusion with a foreigner isn't a crime.
Last edited by House Quark on Wed May 17, 2017 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 163903
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Wed May 17, 2017 10:14 am

House Quark wrote:
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:Is it happening? It might be happening.

But I don't want my heartbroken again, so low hopes for me.


Well don't get your hoperating up. To be Impeached you must have committed a crime and collusion with a foreigner isn't a crime.

Rep. Green mentioned obstruction of justice.
He/Him

beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
we never hide from from the devil
we never

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House Quark
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 11
Founded: May 04, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby House Quark » Wed May 17, 2017 10:17 am

Ifreann wrote:
House Quark wrote:
Well don't get your hoperating up. To be Impeached you must have committed a crime and collusion with a foreigner isn't a crime.

Rep. Green mentioned obstruction of justice.


Since Come had only ran organization that was investigation and not the investigation itself. That not enough to impeach.

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Ifreann
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Posts: 163903
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Wed May 17, 2017 10:35 am

House Quark wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Rep. Green mentioned obstruction of justice.


Since Come had only ran organization that was investigation and not the investigation itself. That not enough to impeach.

I don't understand your reasoning.
He/Him

beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
we never hide from from the devil
we never

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Neu Leonstein
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5771
Founded: Oct 23, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Neu Leonstein » Wed May 17, 2017 10:36 am

House Quark wrote:Since Come had only ran organization that was investigation and not the investigation itself. That not enough to impeach.

That's not how that works.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles ... high-crime
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/33380 ... -for-trump

Don't get me wrong, I would be extremely surprised if there was an impeachment. But not because there aren't grounds for it. Just because the GOP isn't convinced (yet?) that they'd be better off with Pence as a PotUS who can actually advance their legislative agenda, but in the process of getting him having had to axe a PotUS from their own party who remains popular with their base.
“Every age and generation must be as free to act for itself in all cases as the age and generations which preceded it. The vanity and presumption of governing beyond the grave is the most ridiculous and insolent of all tyrannies. Man has no property in man; neither has any generation a property in the generations which are to follow.”
~ Thomas Paine

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House Quark
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 11
Founded: May 04, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby House Quark » Wed May 17, 2017 10:39 am

Ifreann wrote:
House Quark wrote:
Since Come had only ran organization that was investigation and not the investigation itself. That not enough to impeach.

I don't understand your reasoning.


To obstruct justice, you must have effected the investigation. Since Come wasn't a part of the investigation, it wasn't effected. So there no tangible evidence of obstruction of justice.

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Thermodolia
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 78485
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Wed May 17, 2017 10:41 am

House Quark wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I don't understand your reasoning.


To obstruct justice, you must have effected the investigation. Since Come wasn't a part of the investigation, it wasn't effected. So there no tangible evidence of obstruction of justice.

Well as of yet.
Male, Jewish, lives somewhere in AZ, Disabled US Military Veteran, Oorah!, I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
Click for Da Funies

RIP Dya

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Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60885
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Wed May 17, 2017 10:47 am

Trump argued “no politician in history... has been treated worse or unfairly” by the media.

I don't know, you ugly fat c**t. I distinctly remember your predecessor having his place of birth questioned for years by an ugly fat c**t that looked an awful lot like you, all the while also getting s**t for wearing a tan suit, liking an "elitist" brand of mustard, and some non-story about him making a "latte salute".

Meanwhile, ugly fat c**t, you are getting criticized for being a vindictive, proudly stupid, shamelessly authoritarian and incompetent crook who can't even cover his own tracks when obstructing justice like a proper crook.
Last edited by Liriena on Wed May 17, 2017 10:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
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Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
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Ifreann
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Posts: 163903
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Wed May 17, 2017 10:49 am

House Quark wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I don't understand your reasoning.


To obstruct justice, you must have effected the investigation.

And where is that written?
Since Come wasn't a part of the investigation, it wasn't effected. So there no tangible evidence of obstruction of justice.

Comey was Director of the FBI. He doesn't need to be part of an investigation in order to effect it.
He/Him

beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
we never hide from from the devil
we never

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Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60885
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Wed May 17, 2017 10:51 am

Nakena wrote:
Liriena wrote:Say, what are Rex Tillerson's views on LGBT rights? He seems to have his heart in the right place where environmental policy is concerned, at least (which is disturbingly odd coming from an oil tycoon, but okay :P ).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHB4vzC0lHY

So... that's a very GOP-friendly way of saying yes, I guess?

Well then, maybe Mattis isn't your only hope. :P
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

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Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 54796
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Wed May 17, 2017 10:51 am

Liriena wrote:

So... that's a very GOP-friendly way of saying yes, I guess?

Well then, maybe Mattis isn't your only hope. :P


Na, Mattis is our only hope. I for one can't wait for him to declare himself emperor.
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

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Uxupox
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13447
Founded: Nov 13, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Uxupox » Wed May 17, 2017 10:52 am

Liriena wrote:

So... that's a very GOP-friendly way of saying yes, I guess?

Well then, maybe Mattis isn't your only hope. :P


Mattis is going to become King one way of another.
Economic Left/Right: 0.00
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Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60885
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Wed May 17, 2017 10:56 am

Uxupox wrote:
Liriena wrote:So... that's a very GOP-friendly way of saying yes, I guess?

Well then, maybe Mattis isn't your only hope. :P


Mattis is going to become King one way of another.

I don't know, man. If Game of Thrones has taught me anything, it's that the smart battle commanders somehow always end up getting humilliatingly killed.

Hmmm, I wonder who's the United States' Littlefinger.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Uxupox
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13447
Founded: Nov 13, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Uxupox » Wed May 17, 2017 10:57 am

Liriena wrote:
Uxupox wrote:
Mattis is going to become King one way of another.

I don't know, man. If Game of Thrones has taught me anything, it's that the smart battle commanders somehow always end up getting humilliatingly killed.

Hmmm, I wonder who's the United States' Littlefinger.


You ain't smart if you get killed.
Economic Left/Right: 0.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.00

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Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 54796
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Wed May 17, 2017 10:57 am

Liriena wrote:If Game of Thrones has taught me anything


Kefkashroom is that you?
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

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