Trump MAGAthread VI

[Uxupox]

The guy is not entirely wrong. As the successors to the Mujaheddin did attack the United States and are a current existent threat to US national interests.

The successors to the Mujahideen largely fought alongside the US forces as part of the Northern Alliance.

May I remind you that the Taliban wasn't even around until '91?

Successor.

A person or thing that immediately follows another

[Soldati Senza Confini]

So what?

The CIA and the Reagan administration supported a bunch of fucking shitbags down in my own country of origin.

Does that mean I wish the CIA was dissolved? No.

I think you believe I'm making an argument that I am not.

I did not say that the CIA would be dissolved if they enact the presidents policies.

The CIA doesn't "enact" any policies. They provide intelligence to the president and enforce certain of the president's covert operations (which they haven't said they wouldn't do).

[Uxupox]

I think you believe I'm making an argument that I am not.

I did not say that the CIA would be dissolved if they enact the presidents policies.

The CIA doesn't "enact" any policies. They provide intelligence to the president.

They provide intelligence and act in a way that benefits the nation's interest.

[Natapoc]

I think you believe I'm making an argument that I am not.

I did not say that the CIA would be dissolved if they enact the presidents policies.

The CIA doesn't "enact" any policies. They provide intelligence to the president.

They enact policy when they topple governments and carry out invasions and their intelligence gathering is done according to US policy. So yes, they enact US policy.

[Conserative Morality]

Successor.

A person or thing that immediately follows another

And the successor to the Mujahideen was the Northern Alliance, after they got done squabbling amongst each other in the face of the Taliban (however temporarily). The Taliban was an outside force funded and essentially founded by the Pakistani ISI.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Yes but we only trained them because we where trying to take out Ivan who was the bigger threat at the time.

The stupidity of Operation Cyclone is what had a cascading effect on today's affairs specifically those in the Middle East. We should have not intervened in the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan.

Well, you guys did believe in detente as a policy back then.

Not entirely farfetched you would do that.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

The CIA doesn't "enact" any policies. They provide intelligence to the president.

They enact policy when they topple governments and carry out invasions and their intelligence gathering is done according to US policy. So yes, they enact US policy.

That's enforcement, not "enacting" anything.

The president enacts. The CIA enforces on behalf of the president.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

The CIA doesn't "enact" any policies. They provide intelligence to the president.

They provide intelligence and act in a way that benefits the nation's interest.

Yes, see edit above.

[Uxupox]

Successor.

And the successor to the Mujahideen was the Northern Alliance, after they got done squabbling amongst each other in the face of the Taliban (however temporarily). The Taliban was an outside force funded and essentially founded by the Pakistani ISI.

What the hell. The Taliban was not an outside force. It began as part of a tribal movement in cohesion with university students headed by Omar. They took power from the Mujaheddin after the number of tribes grew disillusioned from their authority. They were not an outside force.

[Natapoc]

They enact policy when they topple governments and carry out invasions and their intelligence gathering is done according to US policy. So yes, they enact US policy.

That's enforcement, not "enacting" anything.

The president enacts. The CIA enforces on behalf of the president.

Call it whatever you like. If the CIA stops providing intelligence to the president as was suggested by the person to whom I replied, they would no longer be serving their role and a reorganization would be a possibility.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

That's enforcement, not "enacting" anything.

The president enacts. The CIA enforces on behalf of the president.

Call it whatever you like. If the CIA stops providing intelligence to the president as was suggested by the person to whom I replied, they would no longer be serving their role and a reorganization would be a possibility.

No, it wouldn't.

The CIA can stop giving intelligence to the president, passing it through a middle man like Pence to then be given to Trump.

They can do that, and Trump calling for their reorganization or dissolution would not be wise. Could he do it? Yes. Would it be wise? No, it wouldn't.

[Natapoc]

Call it whatever you like. If the CIA stops providing intelligence to the president as was suggested by the person to whom I replied, they would no longer be serving their role and a reorganization would be a possibility.

No, it wouldn't.

The CIA can stop giving intelligence to the president, passing it through a middle man like Pence to then be given to Trump.

They can do that, and Trump calling for their reorganization or dissolution would not be wise. Could he do it? Yes. Would it be wise? No, it wouldn't.

Trump is not particularly wise.

[Thermodolia]

Yes but we only trained them because we where trying to take out Ivan who was the bigger threat at the time.

The stupidity of Operation Cyclone is what had a cascading effect on today's affairs specifically those in the Middle East. We should have not intervened in the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan.

Hindsight is 20/20

[Conserative Morality]

What the hell. The Taliban was not an outside force. It began as part of a tribal movement in cohesion with university students headed by Omar. They took power from the Mujaheddin after the number of tribes grew disillusioned from their authority. They were not an outside force.

In 1991, the Taliban (a movement originating from Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam-run religious schools for Afghan refugees in Pakistan) also developed in Afghanistan as a politico-religious force. The most often-repeated story and the Taliban's own story of how Mullah Omar first mobilized his followers is that in the spring of 1994, neighbors in Singesar told him that the local governor had abducted two teenage girls, shaved their heads, and taken them to a camp where they were raped. 30 Taliban (with only 16 rifles) freed the girls, and hanged the governor from the barrel of a tank. Later that year, two militia commanders killed civilians while fighting for the right to sodomize a young boy. The Taliban freed him. Mullah Omar started his movement with fewer than 50 armed madrassah students in his hometown of Kandahar.[74][75]

In the beginning the Taliban numbered in the hundreds, were badly equipped and low on munitions. Within months however 15,000 students arrived from the madrassas in Pakistan.

...

The Taliban, however, suffered a devastating defeat against government forces of the Islamic State under the command of Ahmad Shah Massoud. The Taliban's early victories in 1994 were followed by a series of defeats that resulted in heavy losses which led analysts to believe that the Taliban movement as such might have run its course. Pakistan, however, started to provide stronger military support to the Taliban. On September 26, 1996, as the Taliban with military support by Pakistan and financial support by Saudi Arabia prepared for another major offensive, Massoud ordered a full retreat from Kabul to continue anti-Taliban resistance in the Hindu Kush mountains instead of engaging in street battles in Kabul. The Taliban entered Kabul on September 27, 1996, and established the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan. Many analysts like Amin Saikal describe the Taliban as developing into a proxy force for Pakistan's regional interests.[71][78][82][86][87][88]

[Soldati Senza Confini]

No, it wouldn't.

The CIA can stop giving intelligence to the president, passing it through a middle man like Pence to then be given to Trump.

They can do that, and Trump calling for their reorganization or dissolution would not be wise. Could he do it? Yes. Would it be wise? No, it wouldn't.

Trump is not particularly wise.

Yes, I am aware he's an idiot with the attention span of a goldfish.

[Thermodolia]

The CIA doesn't "enact" any policies. They provide intelligence to the president.

They enact policy when they topple governments and carry out invasions and their intelligence gathering is done according to US policy. So yes, they enact US policy.

The CIA doesn't do invasions. Coups yes, invasions no

[Izandai]

Trump is not particularly wise.

Yes, I am aware he's an idiot with the attention span of a goldfish.

That's an insult to goldfish (who actually have perfectly reasonable attention spans).

[Natapoc]

They enact policy when they topple governments and carry out invasions and their intelligence gathering is done according to US policy. So yes, they enact US policy.

The CIA doesn't do invasions. Coups yes, invasions no

I see you desire a debate over semantics.

Debate denied.

[Thermodolia]

Call it whatever you like. If the CIA stops providing intelligence to the president as was suggested by the person to whom I replied, they would no longer be serving their role and a reorganization would be a possibility.

No, it wouldn't.

The CIA can stop giving intelligence to the president, passing it through a middle man like Pence to then be given to Trump.

They can do that, and Trump calling for their reorganization or dissolution would not be wise. Could he do it? Yes. Would it be wise? No, it wouldn't.

I'd rather them give it to SECDEF mattis

[Uxupox]

What the hell. The Taliban was not an outside force. It began as part of a tribal movement in cohesion with university students headed by Omar. They took power from the Mujaheddin after the number of tribes grew disillusioned from their authority. They were not an outside force.

In 1991, the Taliban (a movement originating from Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam-run religious schools for Afghan refugees in Pakistan) also developed in Afghanistan as a politico-religious force. The most often-repeated story and the Taliban's own story of how Mullah Omar first mobilized his followers is that in the spring of 1994, neighbors in Singesar told him that the local governor had abducted two teenage girls, shaved their heads, and taken them to a camp where they were raped. 30 Taliban (with only 16 rifles) freed the girls, and hanged the governor from the barrel of a tank. Later that year, two militia commanders killed civilians while fighting for the right to sodomize a young boy. The Taliban freed him. Mullah Omar started his movement with fewer than 50 armed madrassah students in his hometown of Kandahar.[74][75]

In the beginning the Taliban numbered in the hundreds, were badly equipped and low on munitions. Within months however 15,000 students arrived from the madrassas in Pakistan.

...

The Taliban, however, suffered a devastating defeat against government forces of the Islamic State under the command of Ahmad Shah Massoud. The Taliban's early victories in 1994 were followed by a series of defeats that resulted in heavy losses which led analysts to believe that the Taliban movement as such might have run its course. Pakistan, however, started to provide stronger military support to the Taliban. On September 26, 1996, as the Taliban with military support by Pakistan and financial support by Saudi Arabia prepared for another major offensive, Massoud ordered a full retreat from Kabul to continue anti-Taliban resistance in the Hindu Kush mountains instead of engaging in street battles in Kabul. The Taliban entered Kabul on September 27, 1996, and established the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan. Many analysts like Amin Saikal describe the Taliban as developing into a proxy force for Pakistan's regional interests.[71][78][82][86][87][88]

Damn those 15,000 students defeated the great Mujaheddin that bested the Soviet forces. Looks like the power of knowledge triumphs over firepower any day.

[Conserative Morality]

I see you desire a debate over semantics.

Debate denied.

Coup v. invasion is technically semantics.

Then again, so is 'murder v. suicide'.

[Thermodolia]

The CIA doesn't do invasions. Coups yes, invasions no

I see you desire a debate over semantics.

Debate denied.

I don't care. The CIA does it job and they do it well.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

The CIA doesn't do invasions. Coups yes, invasions no

I see you desire a debate over semantics.

Debate denied.

Says the person who pointed out a semantic point and when rebuffed you just went "whatever".

In any case, your hypothesis that Trump would reorganize the CIA and FBI over him not receiving intel is not necessarily something I am concerned about. What I am concerned about is what is the intel community going to do about it. Because it doesn't really matter what form does Trump's retaliation to the CIA and other intelligence agencies is, the intelligence community is still going to have to take a decision as to how to act from here on out in regards of the president.

[Conserative Morality]

Damn those 15,000 students defeated the great Mujaheddin that bested the Soviet forces. Looks like the power of knowledge triumphs over firepower any day.

Dedication trumps divided firepower. The Mujahideen were largely fighting amongst themselves before the arrival of the Taliban as a serious threat. See: ISIS v. Iraq, particularly in the early days of the war. Not only that, but as the quote I literally just provided mentioned, they suffered devastating defeats before Pakistan upped their game in supporting them. Here, let me quote it for you, again, since clearly the first time didn't register:

The Taliban's early victories in 1994 were followed by a series of defeats that resulted in heavy losses which led analysts to believe that the Taliban movement as such might have run its course. Pakistan, however, started to provide stronger military support to the Taliban. On September 26, 1996, as the Taliban with military support by Pakistan and financial support by Saudi Arabia prepared for another major offensive, Massoud ordered a full retreat from Kabul to continue anti-Taliban resistance in the Hindu Kush mountains instead of engaging in street battles in Kabul. The Taliban entered Kabul on September 27, 1996, and established the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan. Many analysts like Amin Saikal describe the Taliban as developing into a proxy force for Pakistan's regional interests.

[Thermodolia]

I see you desire a debate over semantics.

Debate denied.

Says the person who pointed out a semantic point and when rebuffed you just went "whatever".

In any case, your hypothesis that Trump would reorganize the CIA and FBI over him not receiving intel is not necessarily something I am concerned about. What I am concerned about is what is the intel community going to do about it. Because it doesn't really matter what form does Trump's retaliation to the CIA and other intelligence agencies is, the intelligence community is still going to have to take a decision as to how to act from here on out in regards of the president.

And it could be anything from super petty to very drastic