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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Sun May 14, 2017 8:22 pm

Trump surprised at Comey backlash.

I was going to make a smart ass remark at this, but I got nothing left.
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Corrian
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Postby Corrian » Sun May 14, 2017 8:28 pm

Galloism wrote:Trump surprised at Comey backlash.

I was going to make a smart ass remark at this, but I got nothing left.

Is there anything our clueless President ISN'T surprised by?
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Ism
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Postby Ism » Sun May 14, 2017 8:29 pm

Patridam wrote:
LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:I took it as implied that he's demanding Comey not leak stuff to the media. Especially in light of the context.


So you have what you interpreted as a threat, and then said interpretation led to you finding an implied but not actual demand. This could only be considered blackmail if everyone thought just like you.

Ism wrote:For a vague threat, its not very vague. More like, thinly veiled.


Well, it's a threat, sort of. It's not well veiled, but it is definitely vague, with no clarity what would happen to Comey.

But a threat does not really make a crime, although it's not presidential for sure. Blackmail would be more like, "If you release things that incriminate me, Comey, I would recommend you increase your life insurance coverage."


I don't think that's blackmail, that just seems like another threat. Blackmail would be if Trump told Comey to/not to do something, or he would do/not do something which would somehow harm Comey. So there is a threat, but just as important there is the quid pro quo aspect as well.

Galloism wrote:Trump surprised at Comey backlash.

I was going to make a smart ass remark at this, but I got nothing left.


Sic transit gloria mundi.

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Corrian
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Postby Corrian » Sun May 14, 2017 8:36 pm

Apparently Fight For the Future bought billboards in 4 congressman/woman's districts showing exactly how they sold you out.

They're mainly centered on the Internet thing, so it was about the selling off your Internet history thing. It said who they were, exactly how much they took from Telecom companies, and that they sold you out. Also gives you their phone number.
Last edited by Corrian on Sun May 14, 2017 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Sun May 14, 2017 8:55 pm

Corrian wrote:Apparently Fight For the Future bought billboards in 4 congressman/woman's districts showing exactly how they sold you out.

They're mainly centered on the Internet thing, so it was about the selling off your Internet history thing. It said who they were, exactly how much they took from Telecom companies, and that they sold you out. Also gives you their phone number.

I completely support actions like this.
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Myrensis
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Postby Myrensis » Sun May 14, 2017 9:34 pm

Galloism wrote:Trump surprised at Comey backlash.

I was going to make a smart ass remark at this, but I got nothing left.


It makes sense when you remember that Trump puts instant gratification before long term thinking, and that petty vendettas and settling the score with those who have bruised his ego is one of his top priorities.

So he probably assumes everyone else thinks the same way, and therefore since Democrats were angry at Comey he expected them to celebrate the firing and praise him for doing it.
Last edited by Myrensis on Sun May 14, 2017 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Lady Scylla
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Postby Lady Scylla » Sun May 14, 2017 9:55 pm

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39918407

Lawmakers press Trump to hand over any tapes
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Corrian
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Postby Corrian » Sun May 14, 2017 11:44 pm

Lady Scylla wrote:http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39918407

Lawmakers press Trump to hand over any tapes

I have the distinct feeling they don't exist.
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Gauthier
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Postby Gauthier » Mon May 15, 2017 1:59 am

Corrian wrote:
Galloism wrote:Trump surprised at Comey backlash.

I was going to make a smart ass remark at this, but I got nothing left.

Is there anything our clueless President ISN'T surprised by?

Women coming out with harassment allegations?
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Ashmoria
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Postby Ashmoria » Mon May 15, 2017 4:59 am

AiliAiliA wrote:
Ashmoria wrote:maybe we understand it more than you do.

when "cesarean section" becomes are pre-existing condition we know that we have an upwards of 1/3 cesarean rate and that in the past pre-existing conditions lead to higher rates, denial of coverage or revocation of coverage.


Apparently I don't understand it properly either.

1. Obamacare stops insurers charging more (or denying coverage) for people with certain pre-existing conditions
2. If having had a caesarian section is listed as a pre-existing condition, then insurers can't charge more if they know about it, or deny coverage because they know about it.

What did I get wrong about that?

there are NO pre-existing conditions under Obamacare.

what you got wrong is that I wasn't discussing Obamacare but the reports on the republican replacement plan.
whatever

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Ashmoria
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Postby Ashmoria » Mon May 15, 2017 5:02 am

Ism wrote:
Gauthier wrote:The Republicans want to repeal Obamacare to allow insurers to charge more or outright deny coverage for pre-existing conditions such as c-sections?


I'm not sure if the Senate will get rid of that rule though. It was pretty popular. But if they keep the rule and make certain things no longer, legally speaking, pre-existing condition, I think they would be able to discriminate based on that. I might be wrong, this isn't really a field I've much knowledge of.


we don't know what the senate might do.

worse yet we don't know what will happen should an Obamacare repeal go through since that part is only PHASE ONE. there are regulations to be written by the agency headed by the man who hates government run health care and then more legislation to come from congress to mop up whatever needs changing.

all we can do is fight against what we know
whatever

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Ashmoria
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Postby Ashmoria » Mon May 15, 2017 5:03 am

LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:How does 'James Comey better hope that there are no "tapes" of our conversations' not constitute blackmail?


since its public it is intimidation of a (potential) witness.
whatever

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Patridam
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Postby Patridam » Mon May 15, 2017 6:33 am

Myrensis wrote:
Galloism wrote:Trump surprised at Comey backlash.

I was going to make a smart ass remark at this, but I got nothing left.


It makes sense when you remember that Trump puts instant gratification before long term thinking, and that petty vendettas and settling the score with those who have bruised his ego is one of his top priorities.

So he probably assumes everyone else thinks the same way, and therefore since Democrats were angry at Comey he expected them to celebrate the firing and praise him for doing it.


Oh democrats are like that, they like to settle vendettas. But Trump made a pretty fatal miscalculation, he failed to see the vendetta Democrats have against him is far, far, far worse than they have against Comey.

On one hand, you can be glad somebody you thought helped the guy you hate win is fired, or you can try to impeach or at least continue to discredit the guy who hate using the occasion.
Last edited by Patridam on Mon May 15, 2017 6:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ashmoria
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Postby Ashmoria » Mon May 15, 2017 6:39 am

Patridam wrote:
Myrensis wrote:
It makes sense when you remember that Trump puts instant gratification before long term thinking, and that petty vendettas and settling the score with those who have bruised his ego is one of his top priorities.

So he probably assumes everyone else thinks the same way, and therefore since Democrats were angry at Comey he expected them to celebrate the firing and praise him for doing it.


Oh democrats are like that, they like to settle vendettas. But Trump made a pretty fatal miscalculation, he failed to see the vendetta Democrats have against him is far, far, far worse than they have against Comey.

On one hand, you can be glad somebody you thought helped the guy you hate win is fired, or you can try to impeach or at least continue to discredit the guy who hate using the occasion.


or you can be shocked that the guy you hate has been dismissed by the president for personal legal reasons.
whatever

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Patridam
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Postby Patridam » Mon May 15, 2017 6:44 am

Ashmoria wrote:or you can be shocked that the guy you hate has been dismissed by the president for personal legal reasons.


Ah, haha, American politics not driven by petty vendettas and partisanship, what year is it? So naive. Democrats and the media hate everything Trump does because he's Trump, that's just the way it goes. It's difficult to tell what they'd think if it wasn't associated with Trump, butthey probably wouldn't care.
Last edited by Patridam on Mon May 15, 2017 6:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ashmoria
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Postby Ashmoria » Mon May 15, 2017 6:49 am

Patridam wrote:
Ashmoria wrote:or you can be shocked that the guy you hate has been dismissed by the president for personal legal reasons.


Ah, haha, American politics not driven by petty vendettas and partisanship, what year is it? So naive. Democrats and the media hate everything Trump does because he's Trump, that's just the way it goes. It's difficult to tell what they'd think if it wasn't associated with Trump, butthey probably wouldn't care.

some things are still shocking

I find it quite shocking that trump admitted it after forcing his underlings to bald-faced lie about it for 2 days. the normal political thing is to take you lie to the grave even if it has been thoroughly debunked.
whatever

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Ism
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Postby Ism » Mon May 15, 2017 6:53 am

Patridam wrote:
Ashmoria wrote:or you can be shocked that the guy you hate has been dismissed by the president for personal legal reasons.


Ah, haha, American politics not driven by petty vendettas and partisanship, what year is it? So naive. Democrats and the media hate everything Trump does because he's Trump, that's just the way it goes. It's difficult to tell what they'd think if it wasn't associated with Trump, butthey probably wouldn't care.


Yes vendettas and partisanship. That's why Obama totally got rid of Comey for contributing to Hillary's loss. Oh, wait, no he didn't. We don't dislike what Trump does because he's Trump, we dislike Trump because of what Trump does.

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LimaUniformNovemberAlpha
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Postby LimaUniformNovemberAlpha » Mon May 15, 2017 7:46 am

Ism wrote:We don't dislike what Trump does because he's Trump, we dislike Trump because of what Trump does.

New signature, here we come!
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Delmonte
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Postby Delmonte » Mon May 15, 2017 8:58 am

LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:
Ism wrote:We don't dislike what Trump does because he's Trump, we dislike Trump because of what Trump does.

New signature, here we come!


On some level, I kind of don't buy it? Issues I've seen lots of people (on both sides) flip on once Trump actually did them:

-Firing of Comey (this is a big one for the Democrats, they flip flopped like crazy. Trump supporters were more consistent because they resented him not "going after" Hillary more)

-TPP (Again, I saw Democrats giving mixed reviews on Trump nixing the TPP, Trump supporters were slightly more consistent; they've always hated it and continued to)

-NAFTA (Democrats, particularly those in online circles, were all about Bernie curbstomping free trade. Trump enacts Bernie's policies and suddenly he's a moron)

Trump supporters and Democrats alike have both flip-flopped on whether or not Wikileaks is good. And a bunch of other key issues. But to pretend that the left is consistent, and rational, and observant in its hatred of Trump is equally as absurd as pretending that Trump supporters are such in their undying love of him.
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<Delmonte> I don't mean literally kill their family. I mean kill their metaphorical family.
<Delmonte> Metaphorically kill their metaphorical family.
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 [b][color=#0000FF][background=red]United in Opposition to [url=http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?t=303025]Liberate Haven[/url][/background][/color][/b]
[color=#FF0000][b]Mallorea and Riva should [url=http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=303090]resign[/url][/b][/color]

The man from Delmonte says yes.

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Ism
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Postby Ism » Mon May 15, 2017 9:02 am

Delmonte wrote:
LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:New signature, here we come!


On some level, I kind of don't buy it? Issues I've seen lots of people (on both sides) flip on once Trump actually did them:

-Firing of Comey (this is a big one for the Democrats, they flip flopped like crazy. Trump supporters were more consistent because they resented him not "going after" Hillary more)

-TPP (Again, I saw Democrats giving mixed reviews on Trump nixing the TPP, Trump supporters were slightly more consistent; they've always hated it and continued to)

-NAFTA (Democrats, particularly those in online circles, were all about Bernie curbstomping free trade. Trump enacts Bernie's policies and suddenly he's a moron)

Trump supporters and Democrats alike have both flip-flopped on whether or not Wikileaks is good. And a bunch of other key issues. But to pretend that the left is consistent, and rational, and observant in its hatred of Trump is equally as absurd as pretending that Trump supporters are such in their undying love of him.


As a Democrat who supports free trade, don't just accept what some people say as party gospel or the majority view. Even if is the majority, it does not mean there is not a sizable minority opposed to it. And again, the firing of Comey is not outrageous because Trump did it, but because of the circumstances involved.

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LimaUniformNovemberAlpha
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Postby LimaUniformNovemberAlpha » Mon May 15, 2017 9:05 am

Delmonte wrote:
LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:New signature, here we come!


On some level, I kind of don't buy it? Issues I've seen lots of people (on both sides) flip on once Trump actually did them:

-Firing of Comey (this is a big one for the Democrats, they flip flopped like crazy. Trump supporters were more consistent because they resented him not "going after" Hillary more)

-TPP (Again, I saw Democrats giving mixed reviews on Trump nixing the TPP, Trump supporters were slightly more consistent; they've always hated it and continued to)

-NAFTA (Democrats, particularly those in online circles, were all about Bernie curbstomping free trade. Trump enacts Bernie's policies and suddenly he's a moron)

Trump supporters and Democrats alike have both flip-flopped on whether or not Wikileaks is good. And a bunch of other key issues. But to pretend that the left is consistent, and rational, and observant in its hatred of Trump is equally as absurd as pretending that Trump supporters are such in their undying love of him.

Comey firing: The issue is that he did it for the wrong reasons, as evidenced by the timing and Trump's own remarks about this.

TPP: Nationalistic reasons =/= support-the-middle-class reasons. Your stated reasons to scrap it are a clue as to what you'll use to replace it.

NAFTA: See above.

Wikileaks I'll grant I supported in my naivete back when they were leaking info on civilian casualties. It made them look like heroes. I should've been more skeptical of their motives. But even then, it was less of a partisan thing and more of a "fight the power" thing. Obama didn't exactly grant Private Manning a Presidential pardon either; wouldn't even commute the sentence until after the 2016 election.
Last edited by LimaUniformNovemberAlpha on Mon May 15, 2017 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Iridencia wrote:Inept people always decry pragmatic choices as "cowardly" because they know they're not smart enough to play on that level.

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Delmonte
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Postby Delmonte » Mon May 15, 2017 9:09 am

Ism wrote:
Delmonte wrote:
On some level, I kind of don't buy it? Issues I've seen lots of people (on both sides) flip on once Trump actually did them:

-Firing of Comey (this is a big one for the Democrats, they flip flopped like crazy. Trump supporters were more consistent because they resented him not "going after" Hillary more)

-TPP (Again, I saw Democrats giving mixed reviews on Trump nixing the TPP, Trump supporters were slightly more consistent; they've always hated it and continued to)

-NAFTA (Democrats, particularly those in online circles, were all about Bernie curbstomping free trade. Trump enacts Bernie's policies and suddenly he's a moron)

Trump supporters and Democrats alike have both flip-flopped on whether or not Wikileaks is good. And a bunch of other key issues. But to pretend that the left is consistent, and rational, and observant in its hatred of Trump is equally as absurd as pretending that Trump supporters are such in their undying love of him.


As a Democrat who supports free trade, don't just accept what some people say as party gospel or the majority view.


I get that, but there are prominent Democrats who railed against TPP then started murmurings about "Oh, well Trump has to do something to counterbalance China, it's shocking he's not aware of that!" etc. etc. I obviously don't have a way to amalgamate all Democratic sentiment before and after. At least I haven't been shown ways of doing that. I.E. very specific polls.

And again, the firing of Comey is not outrageous because Trump did it, but because of the circumstances involved.


"The statements by the White House and Sessions cite two issues. The first is Comey’s unprofessional handling of the Hillary Clinton email investigation, where he first decided not to prosecute her over the mishandling of classified information and then subsequently revealed to the public that the investigation had been reopened shortly before the election, possibly influencing the outcome. This is a serious matter, as Comey broke with precedent by going public with details of bureau investigations that normally are considered confidential."

I think this is a fair reason for his dismissal. One of the reasons is even a reason proffered by Democrats. Having a pending investigation into the President doesn't grant you a free pass. And it's not as though Trump fired the whole FBI or the investigative team looking into Russia, he fired the Director.
[15:35] <Tag> I have a big, heavy sealed box that I have no idea what is in side of it.
[15:35] <Tag> I can only presume it is treasure.
The Batorys wrote:The Delmontese like money, yeah, but they also like to throw down.

<Delmonte> I don't mean literally kill their family. I mean kill their metaphorical family.
<Delmonte> Metaphorically kill their metaphorical family.
Code: Select all
 [b][color=#0000FF][background=red]United in Opposition to [url=http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?t=303025]Liberate Haven[/url][/background][/color][/b]
[color=#FF0000][b]Mallorea and Riva should [url=http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=303090]resign[/url][/b][/color]

The man from Delmonte says yes.

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Ism
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Postby Ism » Mon May 15, 2017 9:13 am

Delmonte wrote:
Ism wrote:
As a Democrat who supports free trade, don't just accept what some people say as party gospel or the majority view.


I get that, but there are prominent Democrats who railed against TPP then started murmurings about "Oh, well Trump has to do something to counterbalance China, it's shocking he's not aware of that!" etc. etc. I obviously don't have a way to amalgamate all Democratic sentiment before and after. At least I haven't been shown ways of doing that. I.E. very specific polls.

And again, the firing of Comey is not outrageous because Trump did it, but because of the circumstances involved.


"The statements by the White House and Sessions cite two issues. The first is Comey’s unprofessional handling of the Hillary Clinton email investigation, where he first decided not to prosecute her over the mishandling of classified information and then subsequently revealed to the public that the investigation had been reopened shortly before the election, possibly influencing the outcome. This is a serious matter, as Comey broke with precedent by going public with details of bureau investigations that normally are considered confidential."

I think this is a fair reason for his dismissal. One of the reasons is even a reason proffered by Democrats. Having a pending investigation into the President doesn't grant you a free pass. And it's not as though Trump fired the whole FBI or the investigative team looking into Russia, he fired the Director.


Except Trump has been very clear that was not the case. He didn't care what the reccomandation was, he'd made his decision.

EDIT: Also, Trump was very supportive of Comey and his actions in the past, so that's not an acceptable excuse now.
Last edited by Ism on Mon May 15, 2017 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Delmonte
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Postby Delmonte » Mon May 15, 2017 9:17 am

Ism wrote:
Delmonte wrote:
I get that, but there are prominent Democrats who railed against TPP then started murmurings about "Oh, well Trump has to do something to counterbalance China, it's shocking he's not aware of that!" etc. etc. I obviously don't have a way to amalgamate all Democratic sentiment before and after. At least I haven't been shown ways of doing that. I.E. very specific polls.



"The statements by the White House and Sessions cite two issues. The first is Comey’s unprofessional handling of the Hillary Clinton email investigation, where he first decided not to prosecute her over the mishandling of classified information and then subsequently revealed to the public that the investigation had been reopened shortly before the election, possibly influencing the outcome. This is a serious matter, as Comey broke with precedent by going public with details of bureau investigations that normally are considered confidential."

I think this is a fair reason for his dismissal. One of the reasons is even a reason proffered by Democrats. Having a pending investigation into the President doesn't grant you a free pass. And it's not as though Trump fired the whole FBI or the investigative team looking into Russia, he fired the Director.


Except Trump has been very clear that was not the case. He didn't care what the reccomandation was, he'd made his decision.


I don't understand. You'll have to explain.

EDIT: Also, Trump was very supportive of Comey and his actions in the past, so that's not an acceptable excuse now.


Not pursuing an investigation was decried by Trump and his supporters. Presumably he tacked on the second reason, cited by Democrats, to make Democrats look like morons when they inevitably raged against his decision. Which, yaknow, mission complete.
Last edited by Delmonte on Mon May 15, 2017 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
[15:35] <Tag> I have a big, heavy sealed box that I have no idea what is in side of it.
[15:35] <Tag> I can only presume it is treasure.
The Batorys wrote:The Delmontese like money, yeah, but they also like to throw down.

<Delmonte> I don't mean literally kill their family. I mean kill their metaphorical family.
<Delmonte> Metaphorically kill their metaphorical family.
Code: Select all
 [b][color=#0000FF][background=red]United in Opposition to [url=http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?t=303025]Liberate Haven[/url][/background][/color][/b]
[color=#FF0000][b]Mallorea and Riva should [url=http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=303090]resign[/url][/b][/color]

The man from Delmonte says yes.

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Ism
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Postby Ism » Mon May 15, 2017 9:21 am

Delmonte wrote:
Ism wrote:
Except Trump has been very clear that was not the case. He didn't care what the reccomandation was, he'd made his decision.


I don't understand. You'll have to explain.

EDIT: Also, Trump was very supportive of Comey and his actions in the past, so that's not an acceptable excuse now.


Not pursuing an investigation was decried by Trump and his supporters.


For the first part, Trump have an interview and said he made the decision to fire Comey before the reccomandation was made, and treated the recommendation as irrelevant. For the second, Comey announced the renewed investigation shortly before the election, which Trump sung praises about. And the original stated cause for the firing was Comey mistreating Clinton, not failing to reccomend she be prosecuted or anything like that.

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