Judge Allows White Alabama Town to Return to Segregation

[Philjia]

It's a conservative idea though. Liberalism is much more individualist.

Context might be different in the U.S but here in Europe it's clearly understood as a liberal/social liberal set of ideas. Understand it and refer to it as identity politics if you really can't get around the term itself.

But that's wrong though. Communitarianism literally came to be as a reaction to liberalism.

[Tinfect]

If only all white nationalists were so reasonable...

Are you serious? Someone who thinks towns should be divided into artificial ethnic ghettos is reasonable?

I mean, slightly moreso than someone who's outright clamoring for the Death Squads. Not as if confining 'undesirable' or 'degenerate' races to ghettos won't lead to that...

Huh. Maybe it's just more insidious than reasonable.

[New haven america]

1. I did, and you're wrong.
2. Using greentext outside of 4chan, still not understanding what logical fallacies are, and using "I know you are, but what am I?", how edgy and original. (Also, it's not baiting if it's true, the fun starts halfway down page 1)

And at least I was able to admit my mistake, something you don't seem to do.

1. "U wrong" isn't an actual argument, sorry. :^)
2. >Implying that implication arrows exist only in 4chan
Anyway, I see you're back at your old tactic of whining about how people are using logical fallacies incorrectly in an hope to avoid actually having to try making an argument, sadly for you, you won't be able to get away by bitching and moaning about them this time because nowhere did I even hinted at you using logical fallacies. Rather, I just pointed out two things, that you were using sub-par baits and that you were an hypocrite for whining about baiting when you were the one initiating the aforementioned shit. :^)

1. Okay, then how is it Liberal?
2. Yes, we get on everyone's tail for using Implication Arrows, you're not unique.
So, if you're not using logical fallacies (incorrectly too), then why did you bring up straw? (Which relates to strawman) Also, you keep bringing up :^), which most people on this site know is bait in order to try to get a reaction out of people. Way to help your case...

[Aelex]

But that's wrong though. Communitarianism literally came to be as a reaction to liberalism.

No, that's false. The Progressives in American politics you're yourself part of are a strand of Communitarist ideology. Anyway, once more, if the term bother you that much, just use "Identity Politics" instead.

[Philjia]

But that's wrong though. Communitarianism literally came to be as a reaction to liberalism.

No, that's false. The Progressives in American politics you're yourself part of are a strand of Communitarist ideology. Anyway, once more, if the term bother you that much, just use "Identity Politics" instead.

I'm a British left winger. What you're railing against is communitarianism, but it is not a liberal idea. It can be connected to so-called progressive politics, but that is not the same thing as liberalism, classical or social.

[Seangoli]

Finished reading the court filings on this, and boy does it seem to be a doozy (And frankly it's bizarre that the court ruled in favor of Gardendale).

First, they bring issue with the obvious racial motivation for it; effectively those who support the split just love to talk about how shifting demographics have changed. In other words, the entire reason this is happening is because there are too many black people go to Gardendale schools.

Second, they would remove non-Gardendale communities as a whole, however in their original proposal for the formation of the new Gardendale district they had put in place a plan that would reincorporate the white communities while leaving majority black communities out. North Smithfield was added into the district after it became readily apparent that without it, they couldn't meet the state's requirement to the desegregation order, however this is purely tactical and I said earlier, the exact wording means that the district can up and boot North Smithfield students whenever they wish. So they "allow" North Smithfield students to attend Gardendale schools currently, and are waiting to see how the court decides before they decide to kick them out or not.

Third, Gardendale's argument that the federal government has no jurisdiction over the matter is wrong. Seriously, they actually argued this. Basically under the premise that since Jefferson County is no longer segregated, the court can longer supervise the district's student assignments due to semantics. No bullshit here, Gardendale is making a semantical argument on the definition of a word to suit their purposes, and disregarding the actual findings in the case they are referencing.

So, what was the justification for allowing the split?

Well, it's a bit bizarre. First, North Smithfield Students wouldn't feel accepted by the Gardendale community if Gardendale wasn't allowed to be its own district. So now they are going to a school where they are at the whim of the school on whether or not they get to go there at any given year. Currently, they are allowed to. In the future? Maybe not so much. So to avoid having North Smithfield students feeling as though they don't belong, they are making a system where they don't belong. A novel approach, I must say.

Second, and even more bizarrely, is that if they kept Gardendale in the Jefferson County school system, then it would be difficult to remove federal oversight from the Jefferson county school system when dealing with segregation due to Gardendale having obvious racial motivations for trying to splinter. In other words, by allowing Gardendale to segregate itself they are able to say that desegregation worked for the rest of the district. I could not make this shit up if I tried.

Third, basically involves respecting parent's rights over the education of their children. If they want a small district, they should get one.

Finally, and again bizarrely, allowing Gardendale to splinter off and effectively segregate itself means that less anymosity will be felt and help desegregation efforts. Basically cow-towing to segregationist will lead to more desegregationist attitudes.

So yeah...

[Saiwania]

I mean, slightly moreso than someone who's outright clamoring for the Death Squads. Not as if confining 'undesirable' or 'degenerate' races to ghettos won't lead to that...

Huh. Maybe it's just more insidious than reasonable.

I just see it as a better alternative to barring all non-Whites from living in a majority White neighborhood. Because of White flight or red tape (obstacles that residents collectively put into place to keep their location the same demographically) such a location would remain majority White, but the point is that some Blacks, Asians, or whatever will get to live there, just as a small minority. Could be 10% or 5% or less.

That is an acceptable status quo in my view. If someone is wealthy enough and manages to obtain the real estate anyways, they have the right to live there even if they're the only Black household in that street or whatever.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Finished reading the court filings on this, and boy does it seem to be a doozy (And frankly it's bizarre that the court ruled in favor of Gardendale).

First, they bring issue with the obvious racial motivation for it; effectively those who support the split just love to talk about how shifting demographics have changed. In other words, the entire reason this is happening is because there are too many black people go to Gardendale schools.

Second, they would remove non-Gardendale communities as a whole, however in their original proposal for the formation of the new Gardendale district they had put in place a plan that would reincorporate the white communities while leaving majority black communities out. North Smithfield was added into the district after it became readily apparent that without it, they couldn't meet the state's requirement to the desegregation order, however this is purely tactical and I said earlier, the exact wording means that the district can up and boot North Smithfield students whenever they wish. So they "allow" North Smithfield students to attend Gardendale schools currently, and are waiting to see how the court decides before they decide to kick them out or not.

Third, Gardendale's argument that the federal government has no jurisdiction over the matter is wrong. Seriously, they actually argued this. Basically under the premise that since Jefferson County is no longer segregated, the court can longer supervise the district's student assignments due to semantics. No bullshit here, Gardendale is making a semantical argument on the definition of a word to suit their purposes, and disregarding the actual findings in the case they are referencing.

So, what was the justification for allowing the split?

Well, it's a bit bizarre. First, North Smithfield Students wouldn't feel accepted by the Gardendale community if Gardendale wasn't allowed to be its own district. So now they are going to a school where they are at the whim of the school on whether or not they get to go there at any given year. Currently, they are allowed to. In the future? Maybe not so much. So to avoid having North Smithfield students feeling as though they don't belong, they are making a system where they don't belong. A novel approach, I must say.

Second, and even more bizarrely, is that if they kept Gardendale in the Jefferson County school system, then it would be difficult to remove federal oversight from the Jefferson county school system when dealing with segregation due to Gardendale having obvious racial motivations for trying to splinter. In other words, by allowing Gardendale to segregate itself they are able to say that desegregation worked for the rest of the district. I could not make this shit up if I tried.

Third, basically involves respecting parent's rights over the education of their children. If they want a small district, they should get one.

Finally, and again bizarrely, allowing Gardendale to splinter off and effectively segregate itself means that less anymosity will be felt and help desegregation efforts. Basically cow-towing to segregationist will lead to more desegregationist attitudes.

So yeah...

Yeah I'm just finishing up the filings and it was a weird one. The court seemed like it was flying all over the place, and some of Gardendales claims are just reaching some amazing levels of stupidity.

I imagine this will get knocked down fairly quickly.

[Philjia]

Finished reading the court filings on this, and boy does it seem to be a doozy (And frankly it's bizarre that the court ruled in favor of Gardendale).

First, they bring issue with the obvious racial motivation for it; effectively those who support the split just love to talk about how shifting demographics have changed. In other words, the entire reason this is happening is because there are too many black people go to Gardendale schools.

Second, they would remove non-Gardendale communities as a whole, however in their original proposal for the formation of the new Gardendale district they had put in place a plan that would reincorporate the white communities while leaving majority black communities out. North Smithfield was added into the district after it became readily apparent that without it, they couldn't meet the state's requirement to the desegregation order, however this is purely tactical and I said earlier, the exact wording means that the district can up and boot North Smithfield students whenever they wish. So they "allow" North Smithfield students to attend Gardendale schools currently, and are waiting to see how the court decides before they decide to kick them out or not.

Third, Gardendale's argument that the federal government has no jurisdiction over the matter is wrong. Seriously, they actually argued this. Basically under the premise that since Jefferson County is no longer segregated, the court can longer supervise the district's student assignments due to semantics. No bullshit here, Gardendale is making a semantical argument on the definition of a word to suit their purposes, and disregarding the actual findings in the case they are referencing.

So, what was the justification for allowing the split?

Well, it's a bit bizarre. First, North Smithfield Students wouldn't feel accepted by the Gardendale community if Gardendale wasn't allowed to be its own district. So now they are going to a school where they are at the whim of the school on whether or not they get to go there at any given year. Currently, they are allowed to. In the future? Maybe not so much. So to avoid having North Smithfield students feeling as though they don't belong, they are making a system where they don't belong. A novel approach, I must say.

Second, and even more bizarrely, is that if they kept Gardendale in the Jefferson County school system, then it would be difficult to remove federal oversight from the Jefferson county school system when dealing with segregation due to Gardendale having obvious racial motivations for trying to splinter. In other words, by allowing Gardendale to segregate itself they are able to say that desegregation worked for the rest of the district. I could not make this shit up if I tried.

Third, basically involves respecting parent's rights over the education of their children. If they want a small district, they should get one.

Finally, and again bizarrely, allowing Gardendale to splinter off and effectively segregate itself means that less anymosity will be felt and help desegregation efforts. Basically cow-towing to segregationist will lead to more desegregationist attitudes.

So yeah...

Yeah I'm just finishing up the filings and it was a weird one. The court seemed like it was flying all over the place, and some of Gardendales claims are just reaching some amazing levels of stupidity.

I imagine this will get knocked down fairly quickly.

I suspect the ACLU will have a field day.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Yeah I'm just finishing up the filings and it was a weird one. The court seemed like it was flying all over the place, and some of Gardendales claims are just reaching some amazing levels of stupidity.

I imagine this will get knocked down fairly quickly.

I suspect the ACLU will have a field day.

I hope so.

These morons seriously said that previous SCOTUS cases shouldn't apply nowadays because they happened in the past and "things are different" or some shit like that. That isn't even remotely how this works.

[New haven america]

I suspect the ACLU will have a field day.

I hope so.

These morons seriously said that previous SCOTUS cases shouldn't apply nowadays because they happened in the past and "things are different" or some shit like that. That isn't even remotely how this works.

How dare you question their impeccable logic.

[Seangoli]

I hope so.

These morons seriously said that previous SCOTUS cases shouldn't apply nowadays because they happened in the past and "things are different" or some shit like that. That isn't even remotely how this works.

How dare you question their impeccable logic.

Seriously, if you have the time to read it give it a look through. I cannot wrap my head around what Gardendale was thinking with their arguments, and because of that I cannot begin to fathom why the court went the way they did.

It's like a tornado of stupidity.

[Aelex]

1. Okay, then how is it Liberal?
2. Yes, we get on everyone's tail for using Implication Arrows, you're not unique.
So, if you're not using logical fallacies (incorrectly too), then why did you bring up straw? (Which relates to strawman) Also, you keep bringing up :^), which most people on this site know is bait in order to try to get a reaction out of people. Way to help your case...

1. Identity Politics.
2. Hahaha! My God, I joked about it being an old tactic of your but it seems to be a Pavlovian reflex, rather! Still, sorry to break your hopes but I was merely paraphrasing Matthew 7:5 "Hypocrite! First cast out the beam from your eye, and then you will see clearly to cast out the straw from the eye of your brother." and mocking your repeated shows of hypocrisy.
Anyway, I find it rather sad that you can't even see the word "straw" without immediately starting to whine about logical fallacies because it just show how much, for all your moaning and bitching about the importance of understanding them and not mentioning them incorrectly, you're yourself utterly unable to do so.

As for the friendly face of friendliness and friendship ":^)", it's just a fucking smiely no need to try and dig deeper meaning into it. I already won't let people police my speech, what make you think I will let you police my smileys use?

[Washington Resistance Army]

How dare you question their impeccable logic.

Seriously, if you have the time to read it give it a look through. I cannot wrap my head around what Gardendale was thinking with their arguments, and because of that I cannot begin to fathom why the court went the way they did.

It's like a tornado of stupidity.

I dunno about you but I really enjoyed the part where Gardendale said it was impossible to assume they were doing this for racial reasons because they've been complying with the desegregation order for several decades.

Right after the court said they've been trying to separate for several decades.

You can't make this shit up.

[Philjia]

1. Okay, then how is it Liberal?
2. Yes, we get on everyone's tail for using Implication Arrows, you're not unique.
So, if you're not using logical fallacies (incorrectly too), then why did you bring up straw? (Which relates to strawman) Also, you keep bringing up :^), which most people on this site know is bait in order to try to get a reaction out of people. Way to help your case...

1. Identity Politics.

That's not an explanation.

[Philjia]

Seriously, if you have the time to read it give it a look through. I cannot wrap my head around what Gardendale was thinking with their arguments, and because of that I cannot begin to fathom why the court went the way they did.

It's like a tornado of stupidity.

I dunno about you but I really enjoyed the part where Gardendale said it was impossible to assume they were doing this for racial reasons because they've been complying with the desegregation order for several decades.

Right after the court said they've been trying to separate for several decades.

You can't make this shit up.

Most places try to change your preconceptions of what they're like. Alabama literally tries to become them.

[Risottia]

Isn't this illegal? Hopefully the higher courts can strike it down.

Looks to me that the plaintiffs were able to construct a valid façade motivation to hide their actual ones (racism and classism).
The judge saw through it and states so, but her hands are tied.

[New haven america]

Seriously, if you have the time to read it give it a look through. I cannot wrap my head around what Gardendale was thinking with their arguments, and because of that I cannot begin to fathom why the court went the way they did.

It's like a tornado of stupidity.

I dunno about you but I really enjoyed the part where Gardendale said it was impossible to assume they were doing this for racial reasons because they've been complying with the desegregation order for several decades.

Right after the court said they've been trying to separate for several decades.

You can't make this shit up.

I mean, it's Alabama, it's not surprising that it happened there...

[Vassenor]

1. Identity Politics.

That's not an explanation.

"Identity politics" has just become a dogwhistle these days anyway.

[Arumbia67]

Have any major news sources picked up on this? A quick google search turned up this thread, and a few small news sites. No CNN, no associated press, none of it. Also since when have towns had a specific race? Anyway, assuming it is true her decision will be thrown out.

[Vassenor]

Have any major news sources picked up on this? A quick google search turned up this thread, and a few small news sites. No CNN, no associated press, none of it. Also since when have towns had a specific race? Anyway, assuming it is true her decision will be thrown out.

Here's the actual court ruling.

[Ifreann]

Finished reading the court filings on this, and boy does it seem to be a doozy (And frankly it's bizarre that the court ruled in favor of Gardendale).

First, they bring issue with the obvious racial motivation for it; effectively those who support the split just love to talk about how shifting demographics have changed. In other words, the entire reason this is happening is because there are too many black people go to Gardendale schools.

Second, they would remove non-Gardendale communities as a whole, however in their original proposal for the formation of the new Gardendale district they had put in place a plan that would reincorporate the white communities while leaving majority black communities out. North Smithfield was added into the district after it became readily apparent that without it, they couldn't meet the state's requirement to the desegregation order, however this is purely tactical and I said earlier, the exact wording means that the district can up and boot North Smithfield students whenever they wish. So they "allow" North Smithfield students to attend Gardendale schools currently, and are waiting to see how the court decides before they decide to kick them out or not.

Third, Gardendale's argument that the federal government has no jurisdiction over the matter is wrong. Seriously, they actually argued this. Basically under the premise that since Jefferson County is no longer segregated, the court can longer supervise the district's student assignments due to semantics. No bullshit here, Gardendale is making a semantical argument on the definition of a word to suit their purposes, and disregarding the actual findings in the case they are referencing.

So, what was the justification for allowing the split?

Well, it's a bit bizarre. First, North Smithfield Students wouldn't feel accepted by the Gardendale community if Gardendale wasn't allowed to be its own district. So now they are going to a school where they are at the whim of the school on whether or not they get to go there at any given year. Currently, they are allowed to. In the future? Maybe not so much. So to avoid having North Smithfield students feeling as though they don't belong, they are making a system where they don't belong. A novel approach, I must say.

Second, and even more bizarrely, is that if they kept Gardendale in the Jefferson County school system, then it would be difficult to remove federal oversight from the Jefferson county school system when dealing with segregation due to Gardendale having obvious racial motivations for trying to splinter. In other words, by allowing Gardendale to segregate itself they are able to say that desegregation worked for the rest of the district. I could not make this shit up if I tried.

Third, basically involves respecting parent's rights over the education of their children. If they want a small district, they should get one.

Finally, and again bizarrely, allowing Gardendale to splinter off and effectively segregate itself means that less anymosity will be felt and help desegregation efforts. Basically cow-towing to segregationist will lead to more desegregationist attitudes.

So yeah...

Go home, your honour, you're drunk.

[Clicktopia]

Problem in America is that there is massive cultural differences between different ethnic groups.

In other countries where multiple ethnicities live together in harmony either one ethnicity dominates the affairs of the state and have established their identity as having moral ownership of the state thereby enabling other ethnicities to assimilate into their culture or there is some sort of merging of cultures.

African Americans seem to have oppressed themselves with identification as 'Black people in America' rather than 'Americans who happened to be Black'.

The short of it is that either African Americans forget about Africa and start concentrating on America or they forget about America and go back to Africa.

You can't blame people for bringing you over against your will but then when you've got the freedom to go back you choose to stay but demand equality and sometimes even corrective discrimination.

[Austrasien]

All black schools is a progressive idea. Just ask Canada. It is just a matter of poor phrasing.

You don't create a school for white students. That is racist. You remove the white students from the school so the black students can have a discrimination-free learning space. That is highly progressive.

[Republic of China Pacific States]

Oh well. They'll live.