Creationism vs. Evolution

[Alvecia]

God created stuff and left mother nature into her own devices to evolve the creatures.

The creation explains the origin then.

BTW God is best genetic programmer - He made sure that evolution won't make bullshit out of His creation.

See to me that just sound like a really cheap way to grab glory, so to speak.

Like when something really awesome and amazing happens by accident, then you try and bullshit poeple into thinking you did it on purpose.
It ruins it.

[Alvecia]

God created stuff and left mother nature into her own devices to evolve the creatures.

The creation explains the origin then.

BTW God is best genetic programmer - He made sure that evolution won't make bullshit out of His creation.

I hate to break it to you, but a few strands of nucleic acid wrapped messily in proteins is not a master program. It's "Hello, World!"

I was quite proud of my hello world program....mutter mutter

[The Alma Mater]

The great god Atum willed himself into being. Because the universe was void he also created a mountain to stand on. He then proceeded to auto-fellate to create moist (Tefnut) and air (Shu); which led to all life.
Give no heed to silly Greeks claiming it was all due to Ouranos spilling his seed on Gaia. We know the truth.

I can't tell if you're being serious.

Well, it IS one of the many, many, many versions of the countless creation stories people have actually believed in throughout history This particular one is also vastly older than the Genesis one.
The Norse tale involving an eternal cow licking celestial ice and people coming from a giants armpit is not; but I like it even more

Also, wat. Why are greek fairytales so lewd?

The Atum one is Egyptian actually. But note how easily you call a religious belief that people held for centuries (if not millenia) "fairytales"...
As for the lewdness .. the connection between sex and life is quite obvious. So not that strange that people link them in creation tales

[The Alma Mater]

I hate to break it to you, but a few strands of nucleic acid wrapped messily in proteins is not a master program. It's "Hello, World!"

I was quite proud of my hello world program....mutter mutter

To be fair, the overwhelming majority of humans using a computer would not even know how to start writing one - so feel free to bask in your pride

[Alvecia]

I was quite proud of my hello world program....mutter mutter

To be fair, the overwhelming majority of humans using a computer would not even know how to start writing one - so feel free to bask in your pride

Yay me \o/

[The Alma Mater]

God created stuff and left mother nature into her own devices to evolve the creatures.

The creation explains the origin then.

BTW God is best genetic programmer - He made sure that evolution won't make bullshit out of His creation.

See to me that just sound like a really cheap way to grab glory, so to speak.

Like when something really awesome and amazing happens by accident, then you try and bullshit poeple into thinking you did it on purpose.
It ruins it.

Ruins it for whom ? Standard manager practice everywhere

[USS Monitor]

Just a single cell alone is far more complex than any super computer and I doubt that something so complex came about by pure chance.

Viruses probably are older than cellular life. Once you understand that there are intermediate stages between inorganic chemicals and cells, it doesn't seem like such a stretch for it to happen by chance. Viruses replicate and mutate and make proteins. It's not that ridiculous to think that they made the first cells.

[Alvecia]

See to me that just sound like a really cheap way to grab glory, so to speak.

Like when something really awesome and amazing happens by accident, then you try and bullshit poeple into thinking you did it on purpose.
It ruins it.

Ruins it for whom ? Standard manager practice everywhere

True. Stupid Manglement.

[Calladan]

To be fair, the overwhelming majority of humans using a computer would not even know how to start writing one - so feel free to bask in your pride

Yay me \o/

This is ENTIRELY off topic, and I am a little bit sorry, but the coder in me remembered this from way back :- Hello World, the odd way!

[Alvecia]

Yay me \o/

This is ENTIRELY off topic, and I am a little bit sorry, but the coder in me remembered this from way back :- Hello World, the odd way!

I think this comment sums up my reaction to most of those responses

I still have no idea why that prints anything.

[Hurdergaryp]

I'm pretty open to intelligent design nowadays.

Gods preserve us.

That's your problem right there: gods. Those artificial constructs always have complicated matters.

[The V O I D]

Simple, really.

Creationism: false understanding of life that was ironically itself created by a religion centered around an ancient book, which itself is about a man who was part of another religion centered around and even more ancient book.

Intelligent Design: alternative 'science' copout by some religious folk who want to be right but also don't want to admit to being completely wrong. Basically, says 'God did evolution' and that's it. No evidence, no studies, nothing.

Darwinian Evolution/Modern Evolution: scientific theories that are based upon around 200 years worth of research, study, and investigation into the fossils of the past and species of the present, and using modern technology, a study of genetics and how species are related to one another on a genetic scale to prove they had a common ancestor or were otherwise related. Further proves the existence of neanderthals by proving we have some of their DNA (the highest amount being among Asians, around 4%); neanderthals being a species which creationists deny the existence of, along with sometimes denying dinosaurs and such, while some of those who believe in intelligent design claim were a failed version of humanity (hint: if they were able to live alongside humanity long enough for us to mate with them, and those mates were then viable hybrids to continue reproduction, they were not a failed version of anything).

[Calladan]

This is ENTIRELY off topic, and I am a little bit sorry, but the coder in me remembered this from way back :- Hello World, the odd way!

I think this comment sums up my reaction to most of those responses

I still have no idea why that prints anything.

Because God makes them

[Socialist Nordia]

My firm view is that evolution is real, not guided by gods. First let me say this: creationism, especially young Earth, is some of the stupidest, most incoherent, most anti-science things out there right now. Second, scientists have been studying and perfecting the evidence and ideas behind evolution for a long time now, and it's quite clear that no "divine intervention" was ever necessary for the process to take place. If god did intervene, then he really didn't need to. Basically the "I believe god guided evolution" stance is a way to reconcile one's strong desire to believe in god, while trying not to seem stupid. In reality though, all it does is 1. reject an entire section of your holy book as "just a metaphor" (basically opening the door to say "who's to say it's not all a metaphor" and allowing the whole thing's truthfulness to be written off) and 2. set up the false narrative that you believe in science, despite the fact that you're significantly modifying a respected theory to fit your worldview without anything to support your modification.

[Alvecia]

I think this comment sums up my reaction to most of those responses

Because God makes them

Bringing it right back round.
Well done, sir.

[Socialist Nordia]

Just a single cell alone is far more complex than any super computer and I doubt that something so complex came about by pure chance.

Viruses probably are older than cellular life. Once you understand that there are intermediate stages between inorganic chemicals and cells, it doesn't seem like such a stretch for it to happen by chance. Viruses replicate and mutate and make proteins. It's not that ridiculous to think that they made the first cells.

Well, I agree there must have been intermediate stages, but I disagree that viruses emerged before cells. This is because viruses can only survive and reproduce with the assistance of cell hosts. They are by nature parasitic, and cannot survive without the existence of cells.

[Zakuvia]

Viruses probably are older than cellular life. Once you understand that there are intermediate stages between inorganic chemicals and cells, it doesn't seem like such a stretch for it to happen by chance. Viruses replicate and mutate and make proteins. It's not that ridiculous to think that they made the first cells.

Well, I agree there must have been intermediate stages, but I disagree that viruses emerged before cells. This is because viruses can only survive and reproduce with the assistance of cell hosts. They are by nature parasitic, and cannot survive without the existence of cells.

Just to be a raw pedant, I think viruses did come before cellular life, but I think they were one-and-done affairs, since, as you mentioned, they'd have no hosts to parasitize. The reason I say that is because they're simpler to produce chemically and it's likely that the 'random' effects of life-generating areas produced virus-like constructs before living cells.

[Arotania]

Just to be a raw pedant, I think viruses did come before cellular life, but I think they were one-and-done affairs, since, as you mentioned, they'd have no hosts to parasitize. The reason I say that is because they're simpler to produce chemically and it's likely that the 'random' effects of life-generating areas produced virus-like constructs before living cells.

That sounds somewhat close to the RNA world hypothesis. Which has a mountain of evidence on its side.
You just need some fatty acids in water and you got a membrane which can enclose a small space. Then you only need some RNA (ribonucleosides are easily formed and simple molecules) and the magic in form of self-replicting systems happens.

RNA is wonderfully versatile. On the one hand it can function as 'data storage', a function at which it is largely superseded by the more stable DNA nowadays. On the other hand it can perform catalytic funtions as a ribozyme. For all major reaction funtions/mechanisms of proteins there have been found analogues in form of ribozymes. Heck, to this day proteins are basically unable to replicate themselves. They are produced in the ribosomes, which at their core are ribozymes. This funnily makes the comment earlier mentioned in this thread about even the simplest proteins not being possible to be formed by chance even more wrong on several levels. Then you have the basic building blocks of RNA like ATP which can function as energy storage and are used as signal molecules.
All in all with just some fatty acids and RNA you got a system that has everything it needs to replicate itself, make some errors on the way, thus discover some new things and get the ball of life rolling. Absolutely everything but impropable.

After some time you add DNA (just slightly modified RNA) for more stable long term storage. You find and synthesize some better catalytic compounds, i.e. proteins and you are set. Amino acids are pretty basic components (we can detect them in space), only the polymers, i.e. proteins, seem complex, which is a non-issue once you tackle polymerization, which is a simple condensation reaction handled by the ribosome.
From there you just add a whiff of endosymbiosis and you are basically at our current understanding of life and cells.

[New Morthyr]

Well, I agree there must have been intermediate stages, but I disagree that viruses emerged before cells. This is because viruses can only survive and reproduce with the assistance of cell hosts. They are by nature parasitic, and cannot survive without the existence of cells.

Just to be a raw pedant, I think viruses did come before cellular life, but I think they were one-and-done affairs, since, as you mentioned, they'd have no hosts to parasitize. The reason I say that is because they're simpler to produce chemically and it's likely that the 'random' effects of life-generating areas produced virus-like constructs before living cells.

Viruses are cellular life, they are just independent.

[New Morthyr]

Evolution, but with a different standpoint.

I think the origin of life itself is not evolution, nor is it intelligent design.
I think the origin of life is a lucky combination.
Have you checked out the library of babel? Here! It's a website where they just randomly generated every combination ever, and here, you can find the answer to life, your entire life story, or just the best book in the world that no one has written.

That is how I believe the universe is.
I just believe that we were a lucky combination.

I mean, if you think that life has to come from life, think again! Scientists at M.I.T. have started producing organic matter out of non-organic materials! If it can be done by humans, it can be done by a random chemical reaction!
Now, I believe that the millions of cells in our body are smart enough to be able to evolve and pick out traits, but I don't think that that is how life went into existence! Evolution and natural selection are real, but they didn't create themselves!

If you believe that we are too good and perfect to just be random, look at what I said before on the library of babel! It made every combination at random! And it made every book! If anything could happen, then at some point, there is bound to be intelligent life!

[Alvecia]

Evolution, but with a different standpoint.

I think the origin of life itself is not evolution, nor is it intelligent design.
I think the origin of life is a lucky combination.
Have you checked out the library of babel? Here! It's a website where they just randomly generated every combination ever, and here, you can find the answer to life, your entire life story, or just the best book in the world that no one has written.

That is how I believe the universe is.
I just believe that we were a lucky combination.

I mean, if you think that life has to come from life, think again! Scientists at M.I.T. have started producing organic matter out of non-organic materials! If it can be done by humans, it can be done by a random chemical reaction!
Now, I believe that the millions of cells in our body are smart enough to be able to evolve and pick out traits, but I don't think that that is how life went into existence! Evolution and natural selection are real, but they didn't create themselves!

If you believe that we are too good and perfect to just be random, look at what I said before on the library of babel! It made every combination at random! And it made every book! If anything could happen, then at some point, there is bound to be intelligent life!

I mean, evolution as a theory says nothing about the origin of life as it is.

[New Morthyr]

Evolution, but with a different standpoint.

I think the origin of life itself is not evolution, nor is it intelligent design.
I think the origin of life is a lucky combination.
Have you checked out the library of babel? Here! It's a website where they just randomly generated every combination ever, and here, you can find the answer to life, your entire life story, or just the best book in the world that no one has written.

That is how I believe the universe is.
I just believe that we were a lucky combination.

I mean, if you think that life has to come from life, think again! Scientists at M.I.T. have started producing organic matter out of non-organic materials! If it can be done by humans, it can be done by a random chemical reaction!
Now, I believe that the millions of cells in our body are smart enough to be able to evolve and pick out traits, but I don't think that that is how life went into existence! Evolution and natural selection are real, but they didn't create themselves!

If you believe that we are too good and perfect to just be random, look at what I said before on the library of babel! It made every combination at random! And it made every book! If anything could happen, then at some point, there is bound to be intelligent life!

I mean, evolution as a theory says nothing about the origin of life as it is.

I already mentioned that!
READ THE ENTIRE THING!

[Alvecia]

I mean, evolution as a theory says nothing about the origin of life as it is.

I already mentioned that!
READ THE ENTIRE THING!

You said:

Evolution, but with a different standpoint.

My point was that it isn't a different standpoint. It's the standpoint. Evolution's standpoint, that it doesn't explain the origin of life

Also, no need to shout, I'm right here.

[Arotania]

I mean, if you think that life has to come from life, think again! Scientists at M.I.T. have started producing organic matter out of non-organic materials!

Wöhler already did this in 1828
Also Miller-Urey.

If you believe that we are too good and perfect to just be random, look at what I said before on the library of babel! It made every combination at random! And it made every book! If anything could happen, then at some point, there is bound to be intelligent life!

The search space is too big though, to really have tried everything in just a couple billion years.
In the end that isn't necessary, luckily.
I guess your comment is aiming in the direction of simple self-replicating systems that can "try" new things by chance or error. Which neatly fits the RNA world hypothesis, see my post above or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_world

[New Morthyr]

I already mentioned that!
READ THE ENTIRE THING!

You said:

Evolution, but with a different standpoint.

My point was that it isn't a different standpoint. It's the standpoint. Evolution's standpoint, that it doesn't explain the origin of life

Also, no need to shout, I'm right here.

I MEANT that evolution is real, but I also explained life in it.

If you believe that we are too good and perfect to just be random, look at what I said before on the library of babel! It made every combination at random! And it made every book! If anything could happen, then at some point, there is bound to be intelligent life!

The search space is too big though, to really have tried everything in just a couple billion years.
In the end that isn't necessary, luckily.
I guess your comment is aiming in the direction of simple self-replicating systems that can "try" new things by chance or error. Which neatly fits the RNA world hypothesis, see my post above or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_world

I meant the multiverse.

I believe in infinite universes, each a different age, each different!