Do you think that punishing pornographers would right?

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Then why the fuck are you still talking about it?

So I can close the discussion and avoid this to go off-topic. Thank you.

There was no discussion, you just started an off-topic rant for no good reason. Good job cutting yourself off.

[Liriena]

I'm not even sure what sort of fallacy that could be described as.

Yeah, that one had me confused about how to respond for a second, lol.

Also, good to see you, Liriena.

Same, Pruss.

[Liriena]

Then why the fuck are you still talking about it?

So I can close the discussion and avoid this to go off-topic. Thank you.

Meaning that you knew your comment was out of place, irrelevant, and contributed absolutely nothing to the discussion.

[New haven america]

A. Well, do you want your existence to be ended?
B. Wasn't moving the goal post, most obvious data shown was from 2001, you should've been clearer on what you were showing.

A) How does that prove that it is wrong? What people want is entirely irrelevant to the question of "Is a certain action morally correct". Consequentialism is a bunk moral ideology; if actions are not good and bad by virtue of their own merit, then actions do not have moral value.
B) You changed it from "Most people think Reagan was a bad president" to "Most educated people think he was a bad president".

A) Do you want your existence ended, yes or no?
B) No, most people do hate Reagan, and the majority of educated people think he's terrible. Any questions?

[Costa Fierro]

First, some sources:

Facebook and Feminist Current. So hardly any objective sources for a start.

Personally I think, too, that pornography is encouraging, even worse: teaching, violence against women.

As a regular consumer of pornography: no. Most of the stuff that I watch is amateur and almost all of it involves women performing sexual acts on themselves or on other women (two guesses as to what my favourite genres are). In addition, most of the BDSM stuff that I have seen is pretty light and involves women who have consented to the acts and the treatment, as those with that kind of fetish do.

Proper production pornography (i.e the stuff with the terrible acting and plots) is all staged and the women get paid for their work. Female porn stars often out earn their male counterparts and a lot of female porn stars have made millions off the industry.

Now I'm not going to beat around the bush when I say that I hate women. Because I do. But this hate didn't come from pornography. It came from overwhelmingly negative treatment by girls and women throughout my schooling. Why is that relevant? Because my views and opinions of women were not as a result of pornography, and there is not a single study that could make such a link. Pornography does not teach men to commit acts of violence against women and no supposed "scientific" links have ever been found because any study that claims a link has either been funded or conducted by a conservative "family first" type organisation or something involving radical feminists.

But I'm also a very pragmatic person: I don't think that it could be possible, nor even totally fair since attitudes are very slow to change and in such case too many men need time beore accepting the idea.

Most people would probably disagree with banning or censoring pornography, as demonstrated in the United Kingdom when the Conservative government tried to censor porn and thousands of people protested against the measures.

I think that a good first step would be criminalizing the rich producers, not the users: it would be quite similar to what happened in so many countries regarding prostitution, the first step was criminalizing pimps and not the johns, giving a lot (even too much) time to johns to understand that it was a bad thing.

That's not what happened. Most countries that tried to institute some criminal punishments regarding prostitution did so against users, not sellers.

In the case of pornography I think that we should follow the same path.

And I think there's nothing wrong with prostitution and pornography.

[San Marlindo]

Golly, I do still remember the times when wanting to illegalize pornography was a conservative-reactionary idea that was more frequently touted by proponents on what's generally labeled "patriarchy" by modern feminist firebrands.

"Get the hell out of my thread, old man!"

[Hirota]

It occurs to me that provided they could record it, could choose the method of punishment, and use an attractive willing participant as a proxy, some pornographers would be more than happy to be "punished"

[Sovaal]

It occurs to me that provided they could record it, could choose the method of punishment, and use an attractive willing participant as a proxy, some pornographers would be more than happy to be "punished"

Live stream it across the hemisphere.

[Chessmistress]

How are you going to pass this law, since as this thread demonstrates, most people disagree with you? Perhaps a small clique of radfems will overthrow the american military and establish a dictatorship? Perhaps you'll join a voting bloc with the conservative Christians, and eventually just sort of merge into their movement?

Check OP: the meeting was meant to forward the idea of extending to pornographers (even to users, and I think it would be a wrong strategy) the same punishments already in force under the Nordic Model (criminalization of men buying women's bodies) in Sweden. If they'll have success, then it's very likely that Sweden will be followed by other countries: the Nordic Model had been introduced even by France, Canada, Norway, Iceland, Ireland, Northern Ireland, and was within the political program of Jill Stein in USA.
Please note that among the supporters there was:

Per-Anders Sunesson, Ambassador at Large for Combating Trafficking in Persons, Ministry for Foreign Affairs, Sweden

[Annihitor the Incred]

I think 24/7 government surveillance of the production process is the answer to OP's dilemma - that way you ensure no rights are broken and everything is done to the good letter of the law. There is no privacy intrusion since recording already occurs as a necessary part of the process, and it would create a large number of consistently high-attendance and high-satisfaction jobs, as well. Sounds like a win-win to me.

[Philjia]

How are you going to pass this law, since as this thread demonstrates, most people disagree with you? Perhaps a small clique of radfems will overthrow the american military and establish a dictatorship? Perhaps you'll join a voting bloc with the conservative Christians, and eventually just sort of merge into their movement?

Check OP: the meeting was meant to forward the idea of extending to pornographers (even to users, and I think it would be a wrong strategy) the same punishments already in force under the Nordic Model (criminalization of men buying women's bodies) in Sweden. If they'll have success, then it's very likely that Sweden will be followed by other countries: the Nordic Model had been introduced even by France, Canada, Norway, Iceland, Ireland, Northern Ireland, and was within the political program of Jill Stein in USA.
Please note that among the supporters there was:

Per-Anders Sunesson, Ambassador at Large for Combating Trafficking in Persons, Ministry for Foreign Affairs, Sweden

The Swedish Model is misogynist. It strips women of culpability, and also harms prostitutes financially as their customers are caught and locked up. If you want to stop sexual exploitation, the focus should be on pimping. If it is made illegal to take more than a certain percentage cut from a prostitute's payment, those who rely on taking the earnings of sex workers will be encouraged to find something better to do.

[Chessmistress]

Check OP: the meeting was meant to forward the idea of extending to pornographers (even to users, and I think it would be a wrong strategy) the same punishments already in force under the Nordic Model (criminalization of men buying women's bodies) in Sweden. If they'll have success, then it's very likely that Sweden will be followed by other countries: the Nordic Model had been introduced even by France, Canada, Norway, Iceland, Ireland, Northern Ireland, and was within the political program of Jill Stein in USA.
Please note that among the supporters there was:

The Swedish Model is misogynist. It strips women of culpability, and also harms prostitutes financially as their customers are caught and locked up. If you want to stop sexual exploitation, the focus should be on pimping. If it is made illegal to take more than a certain percentage cut from a prostitute's payment, those who rely on taking the earnings of sex workers will be encouraged to find something better to do.

Pimping is already illegal everywhere, even in many places that actually haven't the Swedish Model.
Women who are forced to sell their bodies aren't punished, so not punishing women cannot be "misogyny", and they aren't guilty since at least 90% of such women (very likely even more than 90%) are actually forced to sell their bodies.

[Dylar]

Can anyone explain to me how pornography is freedom of speech? I really don't see any messages being spread through porn, other than "Sex is this great amazing thing, you should try it sometime."

[Galloism]

Given wider access to pornography is correlated with a reduction in rape rates, why do you want more people raped, OP?

What's the source on this, cause there are a lot of factors that I can see that make this a useless argument.

Not that I agree with OP but this looks like a pretty poor line of reasoning

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/al ... ssault?amp

There's a strong and repeated negative correlation between porn and sexual assault rates. It's hard to say porn reduces sexual assault causally, as there are a myriad of factors and it's hard to prove (see pirates and global warming), but we can be pretty fucking certain it doesn't increase it, as OP continues to assert flying in the face of what evidence there is available.

[Ifreann]

Can anyone explain to me how pornography is freedom of speech? I really don't see any messages being spread through porn, other than "Sex is this great amazing thing, you should try it sometime."

You seem to have answered your own question.

[Philjia]

The Swedish Model is misogynist. It strips women of culpability, and also harms prostitutes financially as their customers are caught and locked up. If you want to stop sexual exploitation, the focus should be on pimping. If it is made illegal to take more than a certain percentage cut from a prostitute's payment, those who rely on taking the earnings of sex workers will be encouraged to find something better to do.

Pimping is already illegal everywhere, even in many places that actually haven't the Swedish Model.
Women who are forced to sell their bodies aren't punished, so not punishing women cannot be "misogyny", and they aren't guilty since at least 90% of such women (very likely even more than 90%) are actually forced to sell their bodies.

Do you have a source for that statistic, or are you pulling that statistic out of your arse?
Not holding women accountable for their part in a criminal activity is extremely sexist.

[Philjia]

Can anyone explain to me how pornography is freedom of speech? I really don't see any messages being spread through porn, other than "Sex is this great amazing thing, you should try it sometime."

It's an idea. It should be allowed to be disseminated.

[Thermodolia]

I think 24/7 government surveillance of the production process is the answer to OP's dilemma - that way you ensure no rights are broken and everything is done to the good letter of the law. There is no privacy intrusion since recording already occurs as a necessary part of the process, and it would create a large number of consistently high-attendance and high-satisfaction jobs, as well. Sounds like a win-win to me.

Fuck no. I don't need some government agency snooping in on my porn habits. Besides who knows what would happen if some sort of homophobic government would use that to their advantage

[Thermodolia]

How are you going to pass this law, since as this thread demonstrates, most people disagree with you? Perhaps a small clique of radfems will overthrow the american military and establish a dictatorship? Perhaps you'll join a voting bloc with the conservative Christians, and eventually just sort of merge into their movement?

Check OP: the meeting was meant to forward the idea of extending to pornographers (even to users, and I think it would be a wrong strategy) the same punishments already in force under the Nordic Model (criminalization of men buying women's bodies) in Sweden. If they'll have success, then it's very likely that Sweden will be followed by other countries: the Nordic Model had been introduced even by France, Canada, Norway, Iceland, Ireland, Northern Ireland, and was within the political program of Jill Stein in USA.
Please note that among the supporters there was:

Per-Anders Sunesson, Ambassador at Large for Combating Trafficking in Persons, Ministry for Foreign Affairs, Sweden

Good luck trying to get it passed in the US without some sort of military coup. Jill Stein could barely break 1%, she's fucking nuts.

[Annihitor the Incred]

I think 24/7 government surveillance of the production process is the answer to OP's dilemma - that way you ensure no rights are broken and everything is done to the good letter of the law. There is no privacy intrusion since recording already occurs as a necessary part of the process, and it would create a large number of consistently high-attendance and high-satisfaction jobs, as well. Sounds like a win-win to me.

Fuck no. I don't need some government agency snooping in on my porn habits. Besides who knows what would happen if some sort of homophobic government would use that to their advantage

W00t, I meant surveillance of production, not viewership. Though, mind you, every single thing you watch is already known and filed away, so my alternative is much more liberal, FACPOV.

[Thermodolia]

Fuck no. I don't need some government agency snooping in on my porn habits. Besides who knows what would happen if some sort of homophobic government would use that to their advantage

W00t, I meant surveillance of production, not viewership. Though, mind you, every single thing you watch is already known and filed away, so my alternative is much more liberal, FACPOW.

Still fuck that. And I don't agree with the surveillance nation anyways. I think a good chunk of it should be dismantled

[Ifreann]

I think 24/7 government surveillance of the production process is the answer to OP's dilemma - that way you ensure no rights are broken and everything is done to the good letter of the law. There is no privacy intrusion since recording already occurs as a necessary part of the process, and it would create a large number of consistently high-attendance and high-satisfaction jobs, as well. Sounds like a win-win to me.

Fuck no. I don't need some government agency snooping in on my porn habits. Besides who knows what would happen if some sort of homophobic government would use that to their advantage

They wouldn't be snooping on your porn habits. They would be snooping on the people making the porn. Which is still stupid, but for different reasons.

[Annihitor the Incred]

W00t, I meant surveillance of production, not viewership. Though, mind you, every single thing you watch is already known and filed away, so my alternative is much more liberal, FACPOW.

Still fuck that. And I don't agree with the surveillance nation anyways. I think a good chunk of it should be dismantled

Fair enough. But recording a recording industry hardly adds any more privacy intrusion than is already there, only makes it available to the state in real time rather than later. Besides, there can be no plausible deniability if Uncle Thom has seen you coerce someone, and no false accusations if consensual labour is proven.

[Gauthier]

Gail Dines is a hack fraud who claims, against all extant evidence, that among other things, porn is creating pedophiles (what?) and that societal conditioning of attractiveness to shaved pubic regions is an extension of pedophilia.

Loudly obsessed with how everything leads to pedophilia.

Yeeah, might want to keep children away from her.

[Great Minarchistan]

the same punishments already in force under the Nordic Model (criminalization of men buying women's bodies) in Sweden

Because prostitution and being a porn actress (hey, what about the actors? I think you somehow forgot them in the cause, huh?) is the same of a man buying a woman's body. Brilliant logic, keep up with your nonsense radfem.