Yellow Man's Burden

[Tokora]

Whenever you pick up a history book, you start to notice a trend where Europe eventually gains a technological advantage over the rest of the world and takes it over. The result being about four centuries of white supremacy and exploitation on an international scale. But what if another continent were to take Europe's place? What would the world be like if Asia developed world wide empires while Europe struggles to compete?

Here's my take. Starting with the Chinese discovery of the America's the nations who would colonize the west coast would be China, Korea, and Japan in North America while Vietnam, Indonesia, Cambodia, and Siam colonize the south. A state in India may or may not sneak in there. Over time The Asian colonies would out compete Europe with China pushing what's left into the enclaves on the east coast.

Siam goes through an industrial revolution in the late 18th century and if Africa is ever colonized Europe would be limited to the continent's northern half. While this is extremely unlikely it would be ironic and hilarious if India, China, and Vietnam occupied Britain, Ireland, and France respectively.

I'm not sure what would happen after that but my guess would be that in the mid 20th century Japan probably does something stupid.

What do you think the world would be like?

[USS Monitor]

More likely that China would dominate everything and the other Asian countries wouldn't colonize much because they would be too small to compete effectively. China has dominated East Asian history in a way that no single country has dominated Western European history, and that lopsided balance of power would carry over into their colonial era.

Japan's success in our timeline is largely built on adopting Western technology earlier and integrating it into their culture more effectively than other Asian countries. In a timeline where Asia led the industrial revolution and colonialism, being more willing to borrow from the West would not give Japan such an advantage. Japan probably would keep up with the latest technology from the mainland and pick up a few colonies, but they wouldn't get ahead of the mainland to the same extent as in our timeline, and without a technological edge over China, they wouldn't be able to dominate the colonial scene.

[Neanderthaland]

In the words of Emperor Qianlong, "our Celestial Empire possesses all things."

China hasn't ever had an enormous incentive to go out and colonize, at least not compared to European powers. What resources China does not possess internally have historically been easy for it to obtain by trading goods that it possesses in ample supply.


Also: I don't know about China, but the Japanese at least knew that Alaska was there. They regularly fished off of it's coast. We don't know when they discovered it exactly, because they didn't seem to think it was important enough to make a note of.

[Cetacea]

In the words of Emperor Qianlong, "our Celestial Empire possesses all things."

China hasn't ever had an enormous incentive to go out and colonize, at least not compared to European powers. What resources China does not possess internally have historically been easy for it to obtain by trading goods that it possesses in ample supply.


Also: I don't know about China, but the Japanese at least knew that Alaska was there. They regularly fished off of it's coast. We don't know when they discovered it exactly, because they didn't seem to think it was important enough to make a note of.

Was it Japanese fishing there? It wasn't until the Meiji Restoration that the Japanese moved north into Hokaiddo proper, before that they left the north to the Ainu and just had a trading post in south. The only reaon they went north was to stop the Russians

and the Chinese Empire is definitely Colonial in its scope, it's just that it's expansion has always been predominantly landbased. The area of China is made up of a diverse collection of Nations and Kingdoms that came to be dominated by various northern invaders including the Mongols and the major southern expansion of the Qin and Han dynastiesthat displaced a huge number of indigenous 'Barbarian' peoples from the Southern provinces including Yue, Viet and Dian (who were a mix of Austro-asiatic,Austronesian and Tai peoples).

Han colonialism was founded on resettlement of Han villagers and the sinitization of the conquered regions until they become 'China' and it wasn't until after the Ming conquest of Yunnan that they gained maritime capability to send naval expeditions to South East Asia and then out to Taiwan.

So yeah assuming that the Ming Dynasty stays open to maritime expeditions I think it would have become the major force in the Colonisation of America. whether any of the SE Asian nations would be able to do a similar colonisation depends again on Chinese activity in those countries - if American wealth bolsters Chinese power then you face the prospect of them moving south to dominate Northern Vietnam (again) and entirely destabilize Cambodia etc.

I'd love to think the Majapahit Empire would be able to expand through the Pacific and acquire territory in South America and the changes in SE Asia might allow one of the India Kingdoms to move in and claim SE Asian territory and then begin an expansion into the Americas too.

[Kubra]

In the words of Emperor Qianlong, "our Celestial Empire possesses all things."

China hasn't ever had an enormous incentive to go out and colonize, at least not compared to European powers. What resources China does not possess internally have historically been easy for it to obtain by trading goods that it possesses in ample supply.


Also: I don't know about China, but the Japanese at least knew that Alaska was there. They regularly fished off of it's coast. We don't know when they discovered it exactly, because they didn't seem to think it was important enough to make a note of.

The Russians barely wanted it themselves and only took it for lack of other options, about the same reason the Americans begrudgingly bought it.
I mean, no wonder they didn't bother to explore further.

[Hirota]

Whenever you pick up a history book, you start to notice a trend where Europe eventually gains a technological advantage over the rest of the world and takes it over. The result being about four centuries if white supremacy and exploitation on a continental scale. But what if another continent were to take Europe's place? What would the world be like if Asia developed world wide empires while Europe struggles to compete?

Go play EU4 and find out.

[San Marlindo]

Whenever you pick up a history book, you start to notice a trend where Europe eventually gains a technological advantage over the rest of the world and takes it over. The result being about four centuries if white supremacy and exploitation on a continental scale. But what if another continent were to take Europe's place? What would the world be like if Asia developed world wide empires while Europe struggles to compete?

Go play EU4 and find out.

A video game has no bearing on a historical discussion whatsoever.

[Ifreann]

Whenever you pick up a history book, you start to notice a trend where Europe eventually gains a technological advantage over the rest of the world and takes it over. The result being about four centuries if white supremacy and exploitation on a continental scale. But what if another continent were to take Europe's place? What would the world be like if Asia developed world wide empires while Europe struggles to compete?

Go play EU4 and find out.

Ming stronk.

[Sovaal]

China would probably be the only one capable of colonising the Americas, as they pretty much dominated their region of Asia, and would take the rise of a rival power in their sphere of influence kindly. In fact, I think that if they had colonial ambitions at all, they would be more focused upon Indochina first, much as they where in real life. So say China becomes so mech industrial power. They would probably colonies the East Indies and Indochina first, perhaps even going as far as Australia. I'm America, they would likely compete with European settlers, with the continent being divided down the middle.

[Tokora]

Go play EU4 and find out.

I bought the third one a while back but I never played it. I think I will sometime. However, the issue I see with that is that when you play a game, what you want happens, not what would've happened.

A video game has no bearing on a historical discussion whatsoever.

Exactly.

Ming stronk.

You think you're funny don't you?

Overall, so from what I've been getting is that China would occupy Indochina, Japan will stay isolationist and sit there like a rock, with the powers being China, Korea, Siam, India, and Indonesia. Is that about right?

[Ifreann]

Ming stronk.

You think you're funny don't you?

Yes. Yes I do.

[Liriena]

Hmm, a world dominated by Chinese and/or Japanise political philosophy?

Well, it certainly would have been interesting. One wonders how a colonization of the American and African continents would have played out under the banner of Confucianism and/or Shinto and/or Buddhism, rather than Christianity.

Go play EU4 and find out.

Ming stronk.

That's so hot. :3

[Khalisako]

To be hones,t a part of methinks things would've turned out better.

Than I hear about what the japanese did in manila nad think... mmm.... maybe it wouln't have tured out any better..

[Sovaal]

To be hones,t a part of methinks things would've turned out better.

Than I hear about what the japanese did in manila nad think... mmm.... maybe it wouln't have tured out any better..

That sad moment when you realize a better portion of mankind is nothing but a bag of dicks and assholes.

[Pope Joan]

Isn't China already taking over large chunks of the African continent, economically? Their relations with such states as Mozambique are entirely one-sided.

[Sovaal]

Isn't China already taking over large chunks of the African continent, economically? Their relations with such states as Mozambique are entirely one-sided.

I mean, they've yet to start sending in settlers so... More of making fiefs and vassals.

[Great Minarchistan]

Well, Japan had its imperialist past already. In fact, their land extension was big under Hirohito.

[Tokora]

To be hones,t a part of methinks things would've turned out better.

Than I hear about what the japanese did in manila nad think... mmm.... maybe it wouln't have tured out any better..

That sad moment when you realize a better portion of mankind is nothing but a bag of dicks and assholes.

The Japanese looted cities, kept sex slaves, nearly wiped out the Communist party, and committed every war crime conceivable at the time, yet I still liked them better than the allies (except for Poland and Josip Tito's partisans, they were fine).

[Uinted Communist of Africa]

Ha the yellow mans burden....i got one better.

AFRICA STRIKES BACK!!!!

Then after it does well in the box office ....part two

THE REVENGE OF THE AFRICANS!!!

[Sovaal]

That sad moment when you realize a better portion of mankind is nothing but a bag of dicks and assholes.

The Japanese looted cities, kept sex slaves, nearly wiped out the Communist party, and committed every war crime conceivable at the time, yet I still liked them better than the allies (except for Poland and Josip Tito's partisans, they were fine).

May I ask as to why?

[Unnamedland]

In the words of Emperor Qianlong, "our Celestial Empire possesses all things."

China hasn't ever had an enormous incentive to go out and colonize, at least not compared to European powers. What resources China does not possess internally have historically been easy for it to obtain by trading goods that it possesses in ample supply.


Also: I don't know about China, but the Japanese at least knew that Alaska was there. They regularly fished off of it's coast. We don't know when they discovered it exactly, because they didn't seem to think it was important enough to make a note of.

Actually, there would be a scenario where this wouldn't happen: There have been several times in Chinese history where a dynasty collapsed and instead of just collapsing it would split into many different small states stuck in an eternal on/off war for the next few hundred years before one of them reunifies the country. Historically the last time that happened was in the 500s, I think, but if it happened again then that could provide an incentive for more colonization and it would create a more multipolar world instead of China ruling everything.

[Great Minarchistan]

In the words of Emperor Qianlong, "our Celestial Empire possesses all things."

China hasn't ever had an enormous incentive to go out and colonize, at least not compared to European powers. What resources China does not possess internally have historically been easy for it to obtain by trading goods that it possesses in ample supply.


Also: I don't know about China, but the Japanese at least knew that Alaska was there. They regularly fished off of it's coast. We don't know when they discovered it exactly, because they didn't seem to think it was important enough to make a note of.

Actually, there would be a scenario where this wouldn't happen: There have been several times in Chinese history where a dynasty collapsed and instead of just collapsing it would split into many different small states stuck in an eternal on/off war for the next few hundred years before one of them reunifies the country. Historically the last time that happened was in the 500s, I think, but if it happened again then that could provide an incentive for more colonization and it would create a more multipolar world instead of China ruling everything.

This also happened after the collapse of Imperial China, by 1900s IIRC.

[Romanum Dominium]

To be hones,t a part of methinks things would've turned out better.

Than I hear about what the japanese did in manila nad think... mmm.... maybe it wouln't have tured out any better..

Yeah, alternate history never really turns out better when you think about it. Conquest and colonization are always pretty brutal, no matter who does it.

[Romanum Dominium]

That sad moment when you realize a better portion of mankind is nothing but a bag of dicks and assholes.

The Japanese looted cities, kept sex slaves, nearly wiped out the Communist party, and committed every war crime conceivable at the time, yet I still liked them better than the allies (except for Poland and Josip Tito's partisans, they were fine).

What? Why? In what possible way could Imperial Japan be better than the Allies? Or is it just a Japanophillia thing?

[Sovaal]

The Japanese looted cities, kept sex slaves, nearly wiped out the Communist party, and committed every war crime conceivable at the time, yet I still liked them better than the allies (except for Poland and Josip Tito's partisans, they were fine).

What? Why? In what possible way could Imperial Japan be better than the Allies? Or is it just a Japanophillia thing?

Maybe he's talking about the Soviets