New Orleans Begins Process of "Removing History"

[Kekistonia]

Trying to erase history because muh feewings. Vile and disgusting.

History isn't being erased.

Pretty easy to tell that historical revision is the intent.

[Calladan]

History isn't being erased.

Pretty easy to tell that historical revision is the intent.

You can read people's minds now? Cause that is a really cool skill!! Can you tell me what I'm thinking?

[Kekistonia]

Pretty easy to tell that historical revision is the intent.

You can read people's minds now? Cause that is a really cool skill!! Can you tell me what I'm thinking?

You can think?

[Alvecia]

History isn't being erased.

Pretty easy to tell that historical revision is the intent.

They aren't revising anything either.

[Ifreann]

History isn't being erased.

Pretty easy to tell that historical revision is the intent.

Putting the obelisk that memorialises the Battle of Liberty Place into a museum is intended to revise history?

How?

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

You've had years of Southern Pride that's been already bruised and damaged due to first, the loss in the war, and then the loss in livelihood and the North coming in and mucking things up a bit here and there from what I recall,

Your recollection is, no offense, not particularly good then. Andrew Johnson (a Southerner) fucked up Reconstruction on purpose to help slavers continue to oppress black citizens in the South.

There's a reason he was impeached.

Apologies on that, has become a habit of thinking of our central gov as 'that geographical area regardless of who's pres'. And it has been an aaaawwwful long time since I was last in school actively studying some of this. >_> Longer than I'd like to admit. Damned kids on my internet, offering me sass.

[Setgavarius]

Everyone knows about the Confederacy. If you live in the South, there is no possible way you can escape learning about it. Whether this be through the flag being flown by Southerners, through history lessons, or through memorials, you'll find out about it and the war between the CSA and the USA. But this is the 21st Century, a time where people support removing history because of their feelings. But anyway, here is the story:

After years of legal wrangling and intimidation, New Orleans has begun the process of dismantling four monuments of the Confederate and Jim Crow eras.

The first monument, which honors members of a white supremacist paramilitary group who fought against the city's racially integrated, Reconstruction-era police force in 1874, was dismantled and removed before the sun rose Monday.
Debate Rages In Southern States Over Whether To Remove Confederate Symbols

Following death threats, the contractors wore flak jackets and helmets as they broke down the Battle of Liberty Place monument, as WWNO's Tegan Wendland reports.

"We will no longer allow the Confederacy to literally be put on a pedestal in the heart of our city," New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu was quoted as saying by The Associated Press.

Landrieu has called for the statues to be removed since 2015. He described the Liberty Place monument as the "most offensive" of the four, according to The Times-Picayune.

Last month, as The Two-Way reported, a federal appeals court greenlighted the city's plans to remove the monuments, including statues of Confederate leaders Robert E. Lee, Jefferson Davis and P.G.T. Beauregard.

Relocating these confederate statues is not about taking something away from someone else. It’s about choosing a better future.
— Mitch Landrieu (@MayorLandrieu) April 24, 2017

In 1989, the Liberty Place monument was removed from its prominent location on Canal Street due to construction, and repositioned to a location off the main drag in 1993.

The mayor's office said that in 1932, the city placed a plaque on the monument stating that the battle memorialized was intended to "overthrow of carpetbag government, ousting the usurpers," and "the national election of November 1876 recognized white supremacy in the South and gave us our state."
New Orleans Can Remove Confederate Statues, Federal Appeals Court Says

When the monument was moved in 1993, that plaque was covered with a new one that said: "In honor of those Americans on both sides who died in the Battle of Liberty Place. ... A conflict of the past that should teach us lessons for the future."

The Advocate newspaper reports that "no statue in New Orleans has had as slow or tortured an exit from the public stage as the monument to the Battle of Liberty Place." Here's more on the long, contested history:

"Up through the 1970s, respectable opinion held that the battle really had nothing to do with race. As one newspaper editorial put it after the obelisk was defaced with black paint in 1970, it was a battle against 'interlopers ... sent to the community to loot, to confiscate lands and to otherwise misrule Louisiana.'

"Like the obelisk itself, this view has been largely discarded, at least among professional historians."

About a dozen protesters gathered as the workers began to dismantle the monument, according to the Times-Picayune. "Supporters of the monuments say they're part of the city's history," Wendland added.

But Mayor Landrieu said that "relocating these Confederate monuments is not about taking something away from someone else. ... This is about showing the whole world that we as a city and as a people are able to acknowledge, understand, reconcile — and most importantly— choose a better future."

The four statues will be initially moved to storage, then the city will look into relocating them to a museum or other location.

The city isn't releasing details about the other statues' removals due to security concerns, but has said that it has secured private funding for the jobs as of Monday. It did not state the source of the funding.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/24/us/new-or ... e-statues/
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/24/us/n ... .html?_r=0
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/ ... -monuments

Now, I believe that this is a horrible action on the part of New Orleans. The committee that voted on this subject was primarily black, so it is not quite surprising that this happened. This is quite reminiscent of how Nazi Germany rewrote history and removed certain historical objects to support their beliefs. There is no reason for these to be removed because of people acting foolishly with them and them representing a historical point in US history. So NSG, are we approaching a time where the South will have to remove all traces of the Confederacy, and will this move elsewhere in the world where governments will have to remove anything pertaining to a "bad" point in their nation's history?

Trying to erase history because muh feewings. Vile and disgusting.

Time to put up statues to King George and Lord North in city squares then and wheel them out of the museums (assuming they haven't all been melted down into bullets). After all, the Revolution was only feewings by ungrateful colonials.
The monuments are going to museums. Traitor scum do not deserve any place of honor in the air of any city.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

Time to put up statues to King George and Lord North in city squares then and wheel them out of the museums (assuming they haven't all been melted down into bullets). After all, the Revolution was only feewings by ungrateful colonials.
The monuments are going to museums. Traitor scum do not deserve any place of honor in the air of any city.

They weren't viewed as traitors locally, no need to assign the title now. Not your history, not your issue, neh? Think there's ways to sort things out in a relatively amicable fashion without resorting to being asshats to one another and tossing out nasty names just because.

[Ifreann]

Trying to erase history because muh feewings. Vile and disgusting.

Time to put up statues to King George and Lord North in city squares then and wheel them out of the museums (assuming they haven't all been melted down into bullets). After all, the Revolution was only feewings by ungrateful colonials.
The monuments are going to museums. Traitor scum do not deserve any place of honor in the air of any city.

There's that, or there's the earlier suggestion that they be left in place, but all maintenance halted. They slowly erode in the wind and rain, they become overgrown by weeds, vandalism is never repaired. The heroes of the Confederacy degrade into wrecks, covered in poorly drawn cocks.

[Renquincia]

Time to put up statues to King George and Lord North in city squares then and wheel them out of the museums (assuming they haven't all been melted down into bullets). After all, the Revolution was only feewings by ungrateful colonials.
The monuments are going to museums. Traitor scum do not deserve any place of honor in the air of any city.

There's that, or there's the earlier suggestion that they be left in place, but all maintenance halted. They slowly erode in the wind and rain, they become overgrown by weeds, vandalism is never repaired. The heroes of the Confederacy degrade into wrecks, covered in poorly drawn cocks.

*starts developing a map of Confederate monuments to vandalize*
*grabs sledgehammer and poleaxe*
It's go time if that's the case.

[Nulla Bellum]

Even though I don't have much respect for the manner in which Abraham Lincoln carried out the Civil War (not much military on military success, so attacked the hell out of civilians and infrastructure instead...) and the dubious legality of coercively fighting secessionism in an allegedly free Union of consent of the governed, the end of slavery was a good thing.

As far as monuments to Confederates, I don't mind their removal. They aren't the history itself. I will always remember that the North could not win their cause without shitting on the Constitution and egregiously violating the laws of land warfare. Not much honor in that.

[Kekistonia]

There's that, or there's the earlier suggestion that they be left in place, but all maintenance halted. They slowly erode in the wind and rain, they become overgrown by weeds, vandalism is never repaired. The heroes of the Confederacy degrade into wrecks, covered in poorly drawn cocks.

The problem with that plan is the fact that proud southerners would almost certainly pick up the slack.

[Alvecia]

There's that, or there's the earlier suggestion that they be left in place, but all maintenance halted. They slowly erode in the wind and rain, they become overgrown by weeds, vandalism is never repaired. The heroes of the Confederacy degrade into wrecks, covered in poorly drawn cocks.

The problem with that plan is the fact that proud southerners would almost certainly pick up the slack.

Hard to maintain a statue without a head.

Edit: Well, hard to maintain the head anyway.

[Kekistonia]

Hard to maintain a statue without a head.

Edit: Well, hard to maintain the head anyway.

Nah.

[Ifreann]

There's that, or there's the earlier suggestion that they be left in place, but all maintenance halted. They slowly erode in the wind and rain, they become overgrown by weeds, vandalism is never repaired. The heroes of the Confederacy degrade into wrecks, covered in poorly drawn cocks.

The problem with that plan is the fact that proud southerners would almost certainly pick up the slack.

Their futile attempts to preserve their fantasies of noble history would actually underline the whole thing nicely.

[United States of Natan]

Everyone knows about the Confederacy. If you live in the South, there is no possible way you can escape learning about it. Whether this be through the flag being flown by Southerners, through history lessons, or through memorials, you'll find out about it and the war between the CSA and the USA. But this is the 21st Century, a time where people support removing history because of their feelings. But anyway, here is the story:

After years of legal wrangling and intimidation, New Orleans has begun the process of dismantling four monuments of the Confederate and Jim Crow eras.

The first monument, which honors members of a white supremacist paramilitary group who fought against the city's racially integrated, Reconstruction-era police force in 1874, was dismantled and removed before the sun rose Monday.
Debate Rages In Southern States Over Whether To Remove Confederate Symbols

Following death threats, the contractors wore flak jackets and helmets as they broke down the Battle of Liberty Place monument, as WWNO's Tegan Wendland reports.

"We will no longer allow the Confederacy to literally be put on a pedestal in the heart of our city," New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu was quoted as saying by The Associated Press.

Landrieu has called for the statues to be removed since 2015. He described the Liberty Place monument as the "most offensive" of the four, according to The Times-Picayune.

Last month, as The Two-Way reported, a federal appeals court greenlighted the city's plans to remove the monuments, including statues of Confederate leaders Robert E. Lee, Jefferson Davis and P.G.T. Beauregard.

Relocating these confederate statues is not about taking something away from someone else. It’s about choosing a better future.
— Mitch Landrieu (@MayorLandrieu) April 24, 2017

In 1989, the Liberty Place monument was removed from its prominent location on Canal Street due to construction, and repositioned to a location off the main drag in 1993.

The mayor's office said that in 1932, the city placed a plaque on the monument stating that the battle memorialized was intended to "overthrow of carpetbag government, ousting the usurpers," and "the national election of November 1876 recognized white supremacy in the South and gave us our state."
New Orleans Can Remove Confederate Statues, Federal Appeals Court Says

When the monument was moved in 1993, that plaque was covered with a new one that said: "In honor of those Americans on both sides who died in the Battle of Liberty Place. ... A conflict of the past that should teach us lessons for the future."

The Advocate newspaper reports that "no statue in New Orleans has had as slow or tortured an exit from the public stage as the monument to the Battle of Liberty Place." Here's more on the long, contested history:

"Up through the 1970s, respectable opinion held that the battle really had nothing to do with race. As one newspaper editorial put it after the obelisk was defaced with black paint in 1970, it was a battle against 'interlopers ... sent to the community to loot, to confiscate lands and to otherwise misrule Louisiana.'

"Like the obelisk itself, this view has been largely discarded, at least among professional historians."

About a dozen protesters gathered as the workers began to dismantle the monument, according to the Times-Picayune. "Supporters of the monuments say they're part of the city's history," Wendland added.

But Mayor Landrieu said that "relocating these Confederate monuments is not about taking something away from someone else. ... This is about showing the whole world that we as a city and as a people are able to acknowledge, understand, reconcile — and most importantly— choose a better future."

The four statues will be initially moved to storage, then the city will look into relocating them to a museum or other location.

The city isn't releasing details about the other statues' removals due to security concerns, but has said that it has secured private funding for the jobs as of Monday. It did not state the source of the funding.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/24/us/new-or ... e-statues/
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/24/us/n ... .html?_r=0
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/ ... -monuments

Now, I believe that this is a horrible action on the part of New Orleans. The committee that voted on this subject was primarily black, so it is not quite surprising that this happened. This is quite reminiscent of how Nazi Germany rewrote history and removed certain historical objects to support their beliefs. There is no reason for these to be removed because of people acting foolishly with them and them representing a historical point in US history. So NSG, are we approaching a time where the South will have to remove all traces of the Confederacy, and will this move elsewhere in the world where governments will have to remove anything pertaining to a "bad" point in their nation's history?

This isn't "rewriting history"! This is removing monuments that honor bad people! They already said they are going in a museum, the purpose of which is LITERALLY to "preserve history"!

[Kekistonia]

The problem with that plan is the fact that proud southerners would almost certainly pick up the slack.

Their futile attempts to preserve their fantasies of noble history would actually underline the whole thing nicely.

"futile attempts". "fantasies" of noble history.

https://youtu.be/FopyRHHlt3M

[Ifreann]

Their futile attempts to preserve their fantasies of noble history would actually underline the whole thing nicely.

"futile attempts". "fantasies" of noble history.

https://youtu.be/FopyRHHlt3M

Want to summarise this video? I'm not going to watch it at work.

[Alvecia]

Hard to maintain a statue without a head.

Edit: Well, hard to maintain the head anyway.

Nah.

Well....yes actually. Not much maintenance you can do on a statue that loses a body part every week.
I mean, I'm sure you can keep the plinth nice and shiny.

[Kekistonia]

"futile attempts". "fantasies" of noble history.

https://youtu.be/FopyRHHlt3M

Want to summarise this video? I'm not going to watch it at work.

“Ha ha ha ha ha....Oh wait. You’re serious? Let me laugh even harder! AAAH HA HA HA HA HA!"

[Ifreann]

Nah.

Well....yes actually. Not much maintenance you can do on a statue that loses a body part every week.
I mean, I'm sure you can keep the plinth nice and shiny.

I'm sure proud southerners would craft new heads from the materials the have lying around in their garages.

[Kekistonia]

Nah.

Well....yes actually. Not much maintenance you can do on a statue that loses a body part every week.
I mean, I'm sure you can keep the plinth nice and shiny.

Vandalism is still illegal. There won't be much body part loss with anyone actually watching the thing.

[Ifreann]

Want to summarise this video? I'm not going to watch it at work.

“Ha ha ha ha ha....Oh wait. You’re serious? Let me laugh even harder! AAAH HA HA HA HA HA!"

I suppose it's to be expected that someone who shares in those fantasies would laugh at any suggestion that they are fantasies.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

History isn't being erased.

Pretty easy to tell that historical revision is the intent.

Removing fucking monuments to white supremacy from public display =/= Rewriting history books.

[Sunstruck]

The committee that voted on this subject was primarily black, so it is not quite surprising that this happened.

That's just begging to start a flame war. Which it probably has, this thread has thirty pages on it already.

Besides that, no it is not okay to erase history because we learn from our mistakes that way.

But removing offensive statues is fine. It's not like we're erasing the people that they represent from existence. They're just acknowledging the fact that they do not endorse the views of those people. If you're butthurt because someone else is butthurt over a statue, rethink your situation. Stop complaining about other people complaining. It's hypocritical.