New Orleans Begins Process of "Removing History"

[Southeast Prussia]

Everyone knows about the Confederacy. If you live in the South, there is no possible way you can escape learning about it. Whether this be through the flag being flown by Southerners, through history lessons, or through memorials, you'll find out about it and the war between the CSA and the USA. But this is the 21st Century, a time where people support removing history because of their feelings. But anyway, here is the story:

After years of legal wrangling and intimidation, New Orleans has begun the process of dismantling four monuments of the Confederate and Jim Crow eras.

The first monument, which honors members of a white supremacist paramilitary group who fought against the city's racially integrated, Reconstruction-era police force in 1874, was dismantled and removed before the sun rose Monday.
Debate Rages In Southern States Over Whether To Remove Confederate Symbols

Following death threats, the contractors wore flak jackets and helmets as they broke down the Battle of Liberty Place monument, as WWNO's Tegan Wendland reports.

"We will no longer allow the Confederacy to literally be put on a pedestal in the heart of our city," New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu was quoted as saying by The Associated Press.

Landrieu has called for the statues to be removed since 2015. He described the Liberty Place monument as the "most offensive" of the four, according to The Times-Picayune.

Last month, as The Two-Way reported, a federal appeals court greenlighted the city's plans to remove the monuments, including statues of Confederate leaders Robert E. Lee, Jefferson Davis and P.G.T. Beauregard.

Relocating these confederate statues is not about taking something away from someone else. It’s about choosing a better future.
— Mitch Landrieu (@MayorLandrieu) April 24, 2017

In 1989, the Liberty Place monument was removed from its prominent location on Canal Street due to construction, and repositioned to a location off the main drag in 1993.

The mayor's office said that in 1932, the city placed a plaque on the monument stating that the battle memorialized was intended to "overthrow of carpetbag government, ousting the usurpers," and "the national election of November 1876 recognized white supremacy in the South and gave us our state."
New Orleans Can Remove Confederate Statues, Federal Appeals Court Says

When the monument was moved in 1993, that plaque was covered with a new one that said: "In honor of those Americans on both sides who died in the Battle of Liberty Place. ... A conflict of the past that should teach us lessons for the future."

The Advocate newspaper reports that "no statue in New Orleans has had as slow or tortured an exit from the public stage as the monument to the Battle of Liberty Place." Here's more on the long, contested history:

"Up through the 1970s, respectable opinion held that the battle really had nothing to do with race. As one newspaper editorial put it after the obelisk was defaced with black paint in 1970, it was a battle against 'interlopers ... sent to the community to loot, to confiscate lands and to otherwise misrule Louisiana.'

"Like the obelisk itself, this view has been largely discarded, at least among professional historians."

About a dozen protesters gathered as the workers began to dismantle the monument, according to the Times-Picayune. "Supporters of the monuments say they're part of the city's history," Wendland added.

But Mayor Landrieu said that "relocating these Confederate monuments is not about taking something away from someone else. ... This is about showing the whole world that we as a city and as a people are able to acknowledge, understand, reconcile — and most importantly— choose a better future."

The four statues will be initially moved to storage, then the city will look into relocating them to a museum or other location.

The city isn't releasing details about the other statues' removals due to security concerns, but has said that it has secured private funding for the jobs as of Monday. It did not state the source of the funding.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/24/us/new-or ... e-statues/
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/24/us/n ... .html?_r=0
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/ ... -monuments

Now, I believe that this is a horrible action on the part of New Orleans. The committee that voted on this subject was primarily black, so it is not quite surprising that this happened. This is quite reminiscent of how Nazi Germany rewrote history and removed certain historical objects to support their beliefs. There is no reason for these to be removed because of people acting foolishly with them and them representing a historical point in US history. So NSG, are we approaching a time where the South will have to remove all traces of the Confederacy, and will this move elsewhere in the world where governments will have to remove anything pertaining to a "bad" point in their nation's history?

[Vassenor]

So why should treason be memorialized?

[Valgora]

Any statues with actual historical significance to the area should not be removed.
Same goes with flags if it is flown at a site of historical significance.

[San Lumen]

I agree this is stupid action. I really don't see a point to it at all.

Many counties in the South have names from Confederate leaders and general. I wonder if changing those is next.

[Southeast Prussia]

So why should treason be memorialized?

Southerners did not see it as "treason," and saw these figures as people fighting for their freedoms. If this was the North, then it would not make sense for them to be memorialised. Robert E. Lee was an impressive general on the battlefield. Does he not deserve to have a memorial just because he was on the other side (same for PGT Beauregard)?

[Southeast Prussia]

I agree this is stupid action. I really don't see a point to it at all.

Many counties in the South have names from Confederate leaders and general. I wonder if changing those is next.

If anything, they're going to be banning the US flag next because it was seen in the South.

[The Grande Republic 0f Arcadia]

So why should treason be memorialized?

Because they were Americians too, and alot of them fought and died for what they believed in. They may be on the wrong side of history but there were still alot of good men fighting for the CSA who died

[Valgora]

I agree this is stupid action. I really don't see a point to it at all.

Many counties in the South have names from Confederate leaders and general. I wonder if changing those is next.

If I remember correctly, there is a certain name that is fairly common in the south that's from a certain general.
Lee

[Volkmacht]

Everyone knows about the Confederacy. If you live in the South, there is no possible way you can escape learning about it. Whether this be through the flag being flown by Southerners, through history lessons, or through memorials, you'll find out about it and the war between the CSA and the USA. But this is the 21st Century, a time where people support removing history because of their feelings. But anyway, here is the story:

After years of legal wrangling and intimidation, New Orleans has begun the process of dismantling four monuments of the Confederate and Jim Crow eras.

The first monument, which honors members of a white supremacist paramilitary group who fought against the city's racially integrated, Reconstruction-era police force in 1874, was dismantled and removed before the sun rose Monday.
Debate Rages In Southern States Over Whether To Remove Confederate Symbols

Following death threats, the contractors wore flak jackets and helmets as they broke down the Battle of Liberty Place monument, as WWNO's Tegan Wendland reports.

"We will no longer allow the Confederacy to literally be put on a pedestal in the heart of our city," New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu was quoted as saying by The Associated Press.

Landrieu has called for the statues to be removed since 2015. He described the Liberty Place monument as the "most offensive" of the four, according to The Times-Picayune.

Last month, as The Two-Way reported, a federal appeals court greenlighted the city's plans to remove the monuments, including statues of Confederate leaders Robert E. Lee, Jefferson Davis and P.G.T. Beauregard.

Relocating these confederate statues is not about taking something away from someone else. It’s about choosing a better future.
— Mitch Landrieu (@MayorLandrieu) April 24, 2017

In 1989, the Liberty Place monument was removed from its prominent location on Canal Street due to construction, and repositioned to a location off the main drag in 1993.

The mayor's office said that in 1932, the city placed a plaque on the monument stating that the battle memorialized was intended to "overthrow of carpetbag government, ousting the usurpers," and "the national election of November 1876 recognized white supremacy in the South and gave us our state."
New Orleans Can Remove Confederate Statues, Federal Appeals Court Says

When the monument was moved in 1993, that plaque was covered with a new one that said: "In honor of those Americans on both sides who died in the Battle of Liberty Place. ... A conflict of the past that should teach us lessons for the future."

The Advocate newspaper reports that "no statue in New Orleans has had as slow or tortured an exit from the public stage as the monument to the Battle of Liberty Place." Here's more on the long, contested history:

"Up through the 1970s, respectable opinion held that the battle really had nothing to do with race. As one newspaper editorial put it after the obelisk was defaced with black paint in 1970, it was a battle against 'interlopers ... sent to the community to loot, to confiscate lands and to otherwise misrule Louisiana.'

"Like the obelisk itself, this view has been largely discarded, at least among professional historians."

About a dozen protesters gathered as the workers began to dismantle the monument, according to the Times-Picayune. "Supporters of the monuments say they're part of the city's history," Wendland added.

But Mayor Landrieu said that "relocating these Confederate monuments is not about taking something away from someone else. ... This is about showing the whole world that we as a city and as a people are able to acknowledge, understand, reconcile — and most importantly— choose a better future."

The four statues will be initially moved to storage, then the city will look into relocating them to a museum or other location.

The city isn't releasing details about the other statues' removals due to security concerns, but has said that it has secured private funding for the jobs as of Monday. It did not state the source of the funding.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/24/us/new-or ... e-statues/
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/24/us/n ... .html?_r=0
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/ ... -monuments

Now, I believe that this is a horrible action on the part of New Orleans. The committee that voted on this subject was primarily black, so it is not quite surprising that this happened. This is quite reminiscent of how Nazi Germany rewrote history and removed certain historical objects to support their beliefs. There is no reason for these to be removed because of people acting foolishly with them and them representing a historical point in US history. So NSG, are we approaching a time where the South will have to remove all traces of the Confederacy, and will this move elsewhere in the world where governments will have to remove anything pertaining to a "bad" point in their nation's history?

Why should we honour the memory of people who fought to enforce a race-based caste system?

[Vassenor]

Also I do not understand the argument that this will somehow erase the Confederacy from history.

[Valgora]

Everyone knows about the Confederacy. If you live in the South, there is no possible way you can escape learning about it. Whether this be through the flag being flown by Southerners, through history lessons, or through memorials, you'll find out about it and the war between the CSA and the USA. But this is the 21st Century, a time where people support removing history because of their feelings. But anyway, here is the story:

After years of legal wrangling and intimidation, New Orleans has begun the process of dismantling four monuments of the Confederate and Jim Crow eras.

The first monument, which honors members of a white supremacist paramilitary group who fought against the city's racially integrated, Reconstruction-era police force in 1874, was dismantled and removed before the sun rose Monday.
Debate Rages In Southern States Over Whether To Remove Confederate Symbols

Following death threats, the contractors wore flak jackets and helmets as they broke down the Battle of Liberty Place monument, as WWNO's Tegan Wendland reports.

"We will no longer allow the Confederacy to literally be put on a pedestal in the heart of our city," New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu was quoted as saying by The Associated Press.

Landrieu has called for the statues to be removed since 2015. He described the Liberty Place monument as the "most offensive" of the four, according to The Times-Picayune.

Last month, as The Two-Way reported, a federal appeals court greenlighted the city's plans to remove the monuments, including statues of Confederate leaders Robert E. Lee, Jefferson Davis and P.G.T. Beauregard.

Relocating these confederate statues is not about taking something away from someone else. It’s about choosing a better future.
— Mitch Landrieu (@MayorLandrieu) April 24, 2017

In 1989, the Liberty Place monument was removed from its prominent location on Canal Street due to construction, and repositioned to a location off the main drag in 1993.

The mayor's office said that in 1932, the city placed a plaque on the monument stating that the battle memorialized was intended to "overthrow of carpetbag government, ousting the usurpers," and "the national election of November 1876 recognized white supremacy in the South and gave us our state."
New Orleans Can Remove Confederate Statues, Federal Appeals Court Says

When the monument was moved in 1993, that plaque was covered with a new one that said: "In honor of those Americans on both sides who died in the Battle of Liberty Place. ... A conflict of the past that should teach us lessons for the future."

The Advocate newspaper reports that "no statue in New Orleans has had as slow or tortured an exit from the public stage as the monument to the Battle of Liberty Place." Here's more on the long, contested history:

"Up through the 1970s, respectable opinion held that the battle really had nothing to do with race. As one newspaper editorial put it after the obelisk was defaced with black paint in 1970, it was a battle against 'interlopers ... sent to the community to loot, to confiscate lands and to otherwise misrule Louisiana.'

"Like the obelisk itself, this view has been largely discarded, at least among professional historians."

About a dozen protesters gathered as the workers began to dismantle the monument, according to the Times-Picayune. "Supporters of the monuments say they're part of the city's history," Wendland added.

But Mayor Landrieu said that "relocating these Confederate monuments is not about taking something away from someone else. ... This is about showing the whole world that we as a city and as a people are able to acknowledge, understand, reconcile — and most importantly— choose a better future."

The four statues will be initially moved to storage, then the city will look into relocating them to a museum or other location.

The city isn't releasing details about the other statues' removals due to security concerns, but has said that it has secured private funding for the jobs as of Monday. It did not state the source of the funding.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/24/us/new-or ... e-statues/
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/24/us/n ... .html?_r=0
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/ ... -monuments

Now, I believe that this is a horrible action on the part of New Orleans. The committee that voted on this subject was primarily black, so it is not quite surprising that this happened. This is quite reminiscent of how Nazi Germany rewrote history and removed certain historical objects to support their beliefs. There is no reason for these to be removed because of people acting foolishly with them and them representing a historical point in US history. So NSG, are we approaching a time where the South will have to remove all traces of the Confederacy, and will this move elsewhere in the world where governments will have to remove anything pertaining to a "bad" point in their nation's history?

Why should we honour the memory of people who fought to enforce a race-based caste system?

The U.S. has done some terrible shit in its history, we can just cover it up.
And not everyone who fought for the CSA was a slave-owner.

[Southeast Prussia]

Everyone knows about the Confederacy. If you live in the South, there is no possible way you can escape learning about it. Whether this be through the flag being flown by Southerners, through history lessons, or through memorials, you'll find out about it and the war between the CSA and the USA. But this is the 21st Century, a time where people support removing history because of their feelings. But anyway, here is the story:

After years of legal wrangling and intimidation, New Orleans has begun the process of dismantling four monuments of the Confederate and Jim Crow eras.

The first monument, which honors members of a white supremacist paramilitary group who fought against the city's racially integrated, Reconstruction-era police force in 1874, was dismantled and removed before the sun rose Monday.
Debate Rages In Southern States Over Whether To Remove Confederate Symbols

Following death threats, the contractors wore flak jackets and helmets as they broke down the Battle of Liberty Place monument, as WWNO's Tegan Wendland reports.

"We will no longer allow the Confederacy to literally be put on a pedestal in the heart of our city," New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu was quoted as saying by The Associated Press.

Landrieu has called for the statues to be removed since 2015. He described the Liberty Place monument as the "most offensive" of the four, according to The Times-Picayune.

Last month, as The Two-Way reported, a federal appeals court greenlighted the city's plans to remove the monuments, including statues of Confederate leaders Robert E. Lee, Jefferson Davis and P.G.T. Beauregard.

Relocating these confederate statues is not about taking something away from someone else. It’s about choosing a better future.
— Mitch Landrieu (@MayorLandrieu) April 24, 2017

In 1989, the Liberty Place monument was removed from its prominent location on Canal Street due to construction, and repositioned to a location off the main drag in 1993.

The mayor's office said that in 1932, the city placed a plaque on the monument stating that the battle memorialized was intended to "overthrow of carpetbag government, ousting the usurpers," and "the national election of November 1876 recognized white supremacy in the South and gave us our state."
New Orleans Can Remove Confederate Statues, Federal Appeals Court Says

When the monument was moved in 1993, that plaque was covered with a new one that said: "In honor of those Americans on both sides who died in the Battle of Liberty Place. ... A conflict of the past that should teach us lessons for the future."

The Advocate newspaper reports that "no statue in New Orleans has had as slow or tortured an exit from the public stage as the monument to the Battle of Liberty Place." Here's more on the long, contested history:

"Up through the 1970s, respectable opinion held that the battle really had nothing to do with race. As one newspaper editorial put it after the obelisk was defaced with black paint in 1970, it was a battle against 'interlopers ... sent to the community to loot, to confiscate lands and to otherwise misrule Louisiana.'

"Like the obelisk itself, this view has been largely discarded, at least among professional historians."

About a dozen protesters gathered as the workers began to dismantle the monument, according to the Times-Picayune. "Supporters of the monuments say they're part of the city's history," Wendland added.

But Mayor Landrieu said that "relocating these Confederate monuments is not about taking something away from someone else. ... This is about showing the whole world that we as a city and as a people are able to acknowledge, understand, reconcile — and most importantly— choose a better future."

The four statues will be initially moved to storage, then the city will look into relocating them to a museum or other location.

The city isn't releasing details about the other statues' removals due to security concerns, but has said that it has secured private funding for the jobs as of Monday. It did not state the source of the funding.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/24/us/new-or ... e-statues/
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/24/us/n ... .html?_r=0
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/ ... -monuments

Now, I believe that this is a horrible action on the part of New Orleans. The committee that voted on this subject was primarily black, so it is not quite surprising that this happened. This is quite reminiscent of how Nazi Germany rewrote history and removed certain historical objects to support their beliefs. There is no reason for these to be removed because of people acting foolishly with them and them representing a historical point in US history. So NSG, are we approaching a time where the South will have to remove all traces of the Confederacy, and will this move elsewhere in the world where governments will have to remove anything pertaining to a "bad" point in their nation's history?

Why should we honour the memory of people who fought to enforce a race-based caste system?

Why do people honour the memory of someone who led their nation to become a dictatorship and murdered the family that used to be leading the nation?

[Volkmacht]

Why should we honour the memory of people who fought to enforce a race-based caste system?

The U.S. has done some terrible shit in its history, we can just cover it up.
And not everyone who fought for the CSA was a slave-owner.

No, but a majority of the people in government and the military hierarchy were.

[Ifreann]

Removing monuments that celebrate terrible people or causes is an entirely positive course of action, and one that more of the South should have taken a long time ago. Any suggestion that this is an attempt to erase history is patent nonsense.

[Volkmacht]

Why should we honour the memory of people who fought to enforce a race-based caste system?

Why do people honour the memory of someone who led their nation to become a dictatorship and murdered the family that used to be leading the nation?

Give me an example.

[Southeast Prussia]

Removing monuments that celebrate terrible people or causes is an entirely positive course of action, and one that more of the South should have taken a long time ago. Any suggestion that this is an attempt to erase history is patent nonsense.

So we can encourage Russia to remove celebrations of Lenin, and China of Mao?

[Salus Maior]

So why should treason be memorialized?

Southerners did not see it as "treason," and saw these figures as people fighting for their freedoms.

Of course, in reality they were people only fighting for the continued enslavement of African Americans, something that we have since come to condemn.

[Southeast Prussia]

Why do people honour the memory of someone who led their nation to become a dictatorship and murdered the family that used to be leading the nation?

Give me an example.

Vladimir Lenin was the person I was speaking of.

[Ifreann]

Removing monuments that celebrate terrible people or causes is an entirely positive course of action, and one that more of the South should have taken a long time ago. Any suggestion that this is an attempt to erase history is patent nonsense.

So we can encourage Russia to remove celebrations of Lenin, and China of Mao?

Feel free.

[Valgora]

The U.S. has done some terrible shit in its history, we can just cover it up.
And not everyone who fought for the CSA was a slave-owner.

No, but a majority of the people in government and the military were.

There wasn't a real slave-owning majority in the South.
Most people (at least in Arkansas) owned 1 slave, maybe. Chances are they rented a slave from someone.
Besides, do you think the rich slave-owners would risk their lives when they can just send the poor.

[Salus Maior]

Removing monuments that celebrate terrible people or causes is an entirely positive course of action, and one that more of the South should have taken a long time ago. Any suggestion that this is an attempt to erase history is patent nonsense.

So we can encourage Russia to remove celebrations of Lenin, and China of Mao?

That's up for Russia and China to decide. Should their countries come to condemn what they stood for.

[Southeast Prussia]

Southerners did not see it as "treason," and saw these figures as people fighting for their freedoms.

Of course, in reality they were people only fighting for the continued enslavement of African Americans, something that we have since come to condemn.

Which they saw as part of their way of life, which they also saw as something that was being endangered.

I do not support the South, but things were quite different down there back in the day.

[Saiwania]

Well, I disagree and would prefer that none of this happened- but if the residents of New Orleans genuinely want this, I'm not inclined to indefinitely tell them no. Provided these monuments are relocated to a more private setting or put up for auction instead of destroyed, I don't think it has to forever be on public display. Should make governing slightly easier if people there approve of their mayor or whatever.

New Orleans can't be expected to stay the same forever and must evolve with the times. Changes like this are relatively normal in the long term. Many places in eastern Europe or Russia for example, took down their communist statues after it stopped being so relevant.

[Salus Maior]

The U.S. has done some terrible shit in its history, we can just cover it up.
And not everyone who fought for the CSA was a slave-owner.

And not every German who fought for Germany in WWII was a full fledged Nazi.

And?

[Maichuko]

I'll be okay with Confederate monuments staying up if we put up monuments to the Loyalist Regiments from the American revolution and Southern Unionist. those guys were also Americans and had a better cause.