Debate on Abrahamic Religions (split from Paris Attacks Thread)

[Internationalist Bastard]

Looks like the same god to me

[The Novakian Empire]

I would say they are pretty positive.
Sure, all of them may have their zealous, violent crazies, but they have pretty seriously affected humanity in a good way.

Pretty much everything has at least one violent crazy in it, nowadays, so don't go off claiming religions are evil. They just have to deal with the same problems everyone does. Stupid fucking humans.

[The Novakian Empire]

Also, Allah and yahweh are totally the same entity. He'll, Muslims recognize Jesus, and at least some of the stuff in the bible.

[Xelsis]

I would say they are pretty positive.
Sure, all of them may have their zealous, violent crazies, but they have pretty seriously affected humanity in a good way.

Pretty much everything has at least one violent crazy in it, nowadays, so don't go off claiming religions are evil. They just have to deal with the same problems everyone does. Stupid fucking humans.

There is "one violent crazy", and there is being the primary cause of hundreds of terror attacks and an entire multiple-country spanning murderous caliphate.

[Herskerstad]

True, that would make sense. Christianity also seems to somewhat common among people who leave Islam because of fear of extremists.

Christianity and Islam believe in the same God.

In the most basic, simplistic identity-wise sense? Yes both the Christians and the Muslims would claim to worship the God which Abraham worshipped.

Yet the distinctions between the I AM and Allah are many and so significant that they hold little in common and are two entirely distinct elements that very few serious followers would like to have mentioned as the same entity with the strings attached.

[Valgora]

I would say they are pretty positive.
Sure, all of them may have their zealous, violent crazies, but they have pretty seriously affected humanity in a good way.

Pretty much everything has at least one violent crazy in it, nowadays, so don't go off claiming religions are evil. They just have to deal with the same problems everyone does. Stupid fucking humans.

There is "one violent crazy", and there is being the primary cause of hundreds of terror attacks and an entire multiple-country spanning murderous caliphate.

Interesting fun fact: the Islamic caliphates were tolerant towards the "People of the Book" which were the Jews and Christians. All they had to do was pay taxes. Later, one caliphate did persecute non-muslims by taking children and raising them to become soldiers.

[Valgora]

I would say they are pretty positive.
Sure, all of them may have their zealous, violent crazies, but they have pretty seriously affected humanity in a good way.

Pretty much everything has at least one violent crazy in it, nowadays, so don't go off claiming religions are evil. They just have to deal with the same problems everyone does. Stupid fucking humans.

There is "one violent crazy", and there is being the primary cause of hundreds of terror attacks and an entire multiple-country spanning murderous caliphate.

You clearly don't know the number of Christians who used religion to do horrible things.

[Shazbotdom]

What.

They are literally the same god. I've studied this stuff. It is indeed the same god.

The Christian God is triune, the Muslim God is not.

Different deities.

So, because of that one little difference, it's not the same God? And oh pray tell, what research have you done to come to this conclusion? Have you done any research on the history of both religions or anything to that effect?

[Herskerstad]

Also, Allah and yahweh are totally the same entity. He'll, Muslims recognize Jesus, and at least some of the stuff in the bible.

Can't by any serious biblical OR quranic definition.

If Jesus is the I AM which he claimed to be, IE the title given to Moses in describing God. Then he cannot be merely a prophet and has implications over God as an entity as well in ways that Allah specifically denies. If Jesus also did not die on the cross for the sins of mankind, throw out most of the new testament there and then. If he did, the quran is invalid. The Jesus who died for the sins of mankind and the Isa who had Judas die for him cannot both be true, and since they both have differing implications over the entity which is God, they are fundamentally distinct from one another.

[The Novakian Empire]

I would say they are pretty positive.
Sure, all of them may have their zealous, violent crazies, but they have pretty seriously affected humanity in a good way.

Pretty much everything has at least one violent crazy in it, nowadays, so don't go off claiming religions are evil. They just have to deal with the same problems everyone does. Stupid fucking humans.

There is "one violent crazy", and there is being the primary cause of hundreds of terror attacks and an entire multiple-country spanning murderous caliphate.

There is also violent crazies in European movements, such as..
The eta, ira, most of the balkans in the 90s, the plo, the red brigades and neo Nazis in Italy..

As for Asia, there is the communist insurgency in the Phillipines and India, the Jillion different insurgencies in Burma,
and for Africa, there is the lords resistance army, pretty much everyone in Somalia a decade or so ago, the interhamawe, and more. That I can't think of right now.

The Americas, there's the Mexican drug cartels, paramilitaries in Colombia and the communist insurgencies in Colombia, not to mention the stuff going on in central America.. hell, there was even some violent crazies in canada during the October crisis
And as for the Jews, they have been doing terrorism since before anyone alive was born.

Point is, there is always going to be violent crazies looking to bomb people, shoot them, or stab them, for any number of reasons. Islam is just one of them, it is not the main one, and it pretty much never has been except for when is is turned up. And isis is getting its ass kicked, so I don't see Islam being the main terrorist ideology for much longer.

[The Novakian Empire]

And I left out America, because even though you guys seem to hate terrorism, so many of you also murder and blow people up for no good reason.

By the way, I almost forgot.
In northern Ireland, there was a shtiload of unionist terrorism, like the uvf, the uda, and the red hand commando.

[Herskerstad]

The Christian God is triune, the Muslim God is not.

Different deities.

So, because of that one little difference, it's not the same God? And oh pray tell, what research have you done to come to this conclusion? Have you done any research on the history of both religions or anything to that effect?

The question might be posed back at you, and I would not blame you if you've done particularly little research on that area as it is one of significant historical contention and complexity. A 'little difference' which has played a role in shaping continents, which I doubt any serious scholar, from either Protestant, orthodox, catholic, arian, modalist, mormon, Sunni, Shia, Ahmadi, Ibadi, ect, ect would affirm as little in a theological or historical context. It is actually one of the more profound questions in the Abrahamic traditions even if it may not seem like it at a cursory glance. Lets just say it has all-important implications as to soteriology, God's plan and salvation in which the Jesus the sacrifice can hold a meaningful role, and Isa the one whom was sacrificed for cannot.

[Xelsis]

There is "one violent crazy", and there is being the primary cause of hundreds of terror attacks and an entire multiple-country spanning murderous caliphate.

You clearly don't know the number of Christians who used religion to do horrible things.

Cite present-day examples, then.

The Christian God is triune, the Muslim God is not.

Different deities.

So, because of that one little difference, it's not the same God? And oh pray tell, what research have you done to come to this conclusion? Have you done any research on the history of both religions or anything to that effect?

You're speaking of an aspect of theology that wars have been fought over, mate. Not exactly a "little difference."

You mean besides the fact that Muslims considered Christians polytheists because of the Triune nature, and of Allah being the One being a core part of Islamic belief?

There is "one violent crazy", and there is being the primary cause of hundreds of terror attacks and an entire multiple-country spanning murderous caliphate.

There is also violent crazies in European movements, such as..
The eta, ira, most of the balkans in the 90s, the plo, the red brigades and neo Nazis in Italy..

As for Asia, there is the communist insurgency in the Phillipines and India, the Jillion different insurgencies in Burma,
and for Africa, there is the lords resistance army, pretty much everyone in Somalia a decade or so ago, the interhamawe, and more. That I can't think of right now.

The Americas, there's the Mexican drug cartels, paramilitaries in Colombia and the communist insurgencies in Colombia, not to mention the stuff going on in central America.. hell, there was even some violent crazies in canada during the October crisis
And as for the Jews, they have been doing terrorism since before anyone alive was born.

Point is, there is always going to be violent crazies looking to bomb people, shoot them, or stab them, for any number of reasons. Islam is just one of them, it is not the main one, and it pretty much never has been except for when is is turned up. And isis is getting its ass kicked, so I don't see Islam being the main terrorist ideology for much longer.

I'm curious if you have a citation on another religious group-or even non-religious terror group, having a body and attack count greater than that of radical Islam.

You also contradict yourself within the span of the paragraph.

[The Novakian Empire]

You clearly don't know the number of Christians who used religion to do horrible things.

Cite present-day examples, then.

So, because of that one little difference, it's not the same God? And oh pray tell, what research have you done to come to this conclusion? Have you done any research on the history of both religions or anything to that effect?

You're speaking of an aspect of theology that wars have been fought over, mate. Not exactly a "little difference."

You mean besides the fact that Muslims considered Christians polytheists because of the Triune nature, and of Allah being the One being a core part of Islamic belief?

There is also violent crazies in European movements, such as..
The eta, ira, most of the balkans in the 90s, the plo, the red brigades and neo Nazis in Italy..

As for Asia, there is the communist insurgency in the Phillipines and India, the Jillion different insurgencies in Burma,
and for Africa, there is the lords resistance army, pretty much everyone in Somalia a decade or so ago, the interhamawe, and more. That I can't think of right now.

The Americas, there's the Mexican drug cartels, paramilitaries in Colombia and the communist insurgencies in Colombia, not to mention the stuff going on in central America.. hell, there was even some violent crazies in canada during the October crisis
And as for the Jews, they have been doing terrorism since before anyone alive was born.

Point is, there is always going to be violent crazies looking to bomb people, shoot them, or stab them, for any number of reasons. Islam is just one of them, it is not the main one, and it pretty much never has been except for when is is turned up. And isis is getting its ass kicked, so I don't see Islam being the main terrorist ideology for much longer.

I'm curious if you have a citation on another religious group-or even non-religious terror group, having a body and attack count greater than that of radical Islam.

You also contradict yourself within the span of the paragraph.

Sorry, i'm on my tablet and i just woke up, so im a it of a dumbass rn. I'll look for the casualty numbers on the groups i mentioned, though.

[The Novakian Empire]

So, I don't know the exact number of people the right wing paramillitarios in colombia have killed, but my best estimate is around 174,475.

So far I haven't been able to find casualty estimates for ISIS, so..your move?

[Herskerstad]

Point is, there is always going to be violent crazies looking to bomb people, shoot them, or stab them, for any number of reasons. Islam is just one of them, it is not the main one, and it pretty much never has been except for when is is turned up. And isis is getting its ass kicked, so I don't see Islam being the main terrorist ideology for much longer.

Islamic violence did not start with ISIS, and it's not likely to end with ISIS and I'd imagine anyone who has a good historical command of the situation, be them on the progressive side or the nationalistic side would agree with such.

As far as being the main one in regards to terrorism, there's in the current year little to compare if we go by the metric of terrorism to ISIS, which is at the present mother of them all, to Taliban which is a close second. These dwarf Boko Haram and Al Shabaab which are rather infamous by now, which again dwarf the groups like the LRA. That's not even counting what could be seen as paramilitary groups like Hezbollah, or state-sponsored terror in regimes like say Hamas. There is absolutely nothing which indicates that Hindus, Buddhists, Christians, Jews, Atheists, ect, is going to overtake that anytime soon.

[Soyouso]

When I say Anti Christ, I refer to it as a general noun, not a name noun. Anyone who denies Christ is the Son of God is considered an Anti Christ, but the Anti Christ, as in, the one person, the big one, we don't know who that is yet.


Muslims claim they added onto the Bible, but Christians do not believe that at all.
You know demons shapeshift, right? Us Christians believe that was a demon talking to him. That was not Gabriel, Gabriel does not "press people until they think it was death". Muhammad actually was under the impression he was possessed by demons and tried to kill himself over it multiple times, it was someone else who said it was from Allah.
Jesus said he was the Son of God. If Muslims say he is just a normal man, they do not believe in what Jesus said, only their own version. He said MULTIPLE TIMES "I am the Son of God", and everyone around Jesus took it that way. If they were wrong about him being divine, Jesus would have told them to stop bowing to him and saying it. Therefore, divinity in the flesh according to the Bible. Hence why it is considered a different religion. We believe Jesus was ressurected. He's still alive for us. Muslims believe he just died.

That is failed logic and not the view of the Church as a whole. Sorry but Islam does believe in the God of Abraham and it is an Abrahamic Religion. They do not believe in a different God than Christianity and Judaism.

Islam, from the point where Muhammad comes in, interprets God entirely different from Christianity and Judaism. They are not all the same thing because they have disagreements on the nature of how God is and what Christ came for and whether or not he's divine. Yes, they are all Abrahamic, but Islam's Allah does not act like Christianity's God, hence why Christians deny him. Musli s believe they have the same one, but Christians and Jews do not believe Muslims do because of this odd behavioral shift.

[The Forsworn Knights]

To those saying that Islam is completely separate from Christianity simply because Jesus said he was gods kid and Muslims dont believe it, diddnt he say all that stuff that got banned in the OT is allowed now, including shellfish and being gay?

[Valgora]

To those saying that Islam is completely separate from Christianity simply because Jesus said he was gods kid and Muslims dont believe it, diddnt he say all that stuff that got banned in the OT is allowed now, including shellfish and being gay?

Being gay was also banned in the New Testament as well.

[The Novakian Empire]

To those saying that Islam is completely separate from Christianity simply because Jesus said he was gods kid and Muslims dont believe it, diddnt he say all that stuff that got banned in the OT is allowed now, including shellfish and being gay?

Being gay was also banned in the New Testament as well.

The bible is just in general super messed up. Seriously, old testament god was a fucking monster.

[Valgora]

Being gay was also banned in the New Testament as well.

The bible is just in general super messed up. Seriously, old testament god was a fucking monster.

Reminds me of an argument I had with my grandmother.
I support Palestine and she supports Israel (surprise, surprise she's a Southern Baptist).

Her argument was the when the Jews got to Israel, there were already people there. And God told the Jews to kill all those people.

[The Novakian Empire]

The bible is just in general super messed up. Seriously, old testament god was a fucking monster.

Reminds me of an argument I had with my grandmother.
I support Palestine and she supports Israel (surprise, surprise she's a Southern Baptist).

Her argument was the when the Jews got to Israel, there were already people there. And God told the Jews to kill all those people.

And the shit he pulled with the eygptians.
Also, didn't he like, destroy two cities for being filled with deviants or something?
Or am i remembering that wrong. I don't know, it's been a while since I have read the bible.

[Valgora]

Reminds me of an argument I had with my grandmother.
I support Palestine and she supports Israel (surprise, surprise she's a Southern Baptist).

Her argument was the when the Jews got to Israel, there were already people there. And God told the Jews to kill all those people.

And the shit he pulled with the eygptians.
Also, didn't he like, destroy two cities for being filled with deviants or something?
Or am i remembering that wrong. I don't know, it's been a while since I have read the bible.

He destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah; the reasons differ but many say it was because of homosexuality.
With the Egyptians, it was to free slaves so I will give him that.

[Soyouso]

To those saying that Islam is completely separate from Christianity simply because Jesus said he was gods kid and Muslims dont believe it, diddnt he say all that stuff that got banned in the OT is allowed now, including shellfish and being gay?

I did say it was Abrahamic, but they have too many disagreements on how God is to be considered the worshippers of the same God, their interpretations are way different. By Christian standards Allah is not God, though Muslims believe he is.

[Valgora]

To those saying that Islam is completely separate from Christianity simply because Jesus said he was gods kid and Muslims dont believe it, diddnt he say all that stuff that got banned in the OT is allowed now, including shellfish and being gay?

I did say it was Abrahamic, but they have too many disagreements on how God is to be considered the worshippers of the same God, their interpretations are way different. By Christian standards Allah is not God, though Muslims believe he is.

If we are talking about interpretations: What about Christians who interpret God differently? Do they not believe in God?