Venezuela 2017

[Kvatchdom]

They tried to, but they were denied almost every decision, including the new judges. The opposition holds a majority in parliament, but cannot practice their legal rights. I'm not defending them, I'm saying that from an international standpoint they're now the good guys, unlike in the earlier US-supported coup attempts.

If murdering innocent people, trying to undermine democracy, and trying to restore their country to being a puppet of US, then sure they're the "good guys".

The first ones can be applied to the presidency and his police force aswell. If democracy leads to that, then it leads to that. 4 of the largest opposition parties are members of the Socialist International either way, I doubt they're jolly about the US.

[Gheballbakyra Stogalbra Eviapadmeke]

They tried to, but they were denied almost every decision, including the new judges. The opposition holds a majority in parliament, but cannot practice their legal rights. I'm not defending them, I'm saying that from an international standpoint they're now the good guys, unlike in the earlier US-supported coup attempts.

If murdering innocent people, trying to undermine democracy, and trying to restore their country to being a puppet of US, then sure they're the "good guys".

I'm pretty sure Maduro is still guilty of trying that one since didn't the opposition win the most parliamentary seats?
Wow, my gods, Venezuelan government. Give it up. The opposition has twice as many seats as you. It's fucking over.

[Bakery Hill]

If murdering innocent people, trying to undermine democracy, and trying to restore their country to being a puppet of US, then sure they're the "good guys".

4 of the largest opposition parties are members of the Socialist International either way

Have you seen the "Socialist International" lately?

[Bakery Hill]

If murdering innocent people, trying to undermine democracy, and trying to restore their country to being a puppet of US, then sure they're the "good guys".

I'm pretty sure Maduro is still guilty of trying that one since didn't the opposition win the most parliamentary seats?
Wow, my gods, Venezuelan government. Give it up. The opposition has twice as many seats as you. It's fucking over.

Agreed. Obama should have resigned when the Republicans won the House.

[Kvatchdom]

4 of the largest opposition parties are members of the Socialist International either way

Have you seen the "Socialist International" lately?

Yeah, point still stands. I doubt any of them would allow the US to plunder Venezuela like it had before, though they might be more aligned to have trade ties to the US and allow American companies more freedoms. I'd also say that's Venezuela's best choice out of any they have been presented with for them to fix their nation.

[Kvatchdom]

I'm pretty sure Maduro is still guilty of trying that one since didn't the opposition win the most parliamentary seats?
Wow, my gods, Venezuelan government. Give it up. The opposition has twice as many seats as you. It's fucking over.

Agreed. Obama should have resigned when the Republicans won the House.

Obama didn't create a seperate House to take power away from the Republicans however.

[The One True Benxboro Empire]

I'm pretty sure Maduro is still guilty of trying that one since didn't the opposition win the most parliamentary seats?
Wow, my gods, Venezuelan government. Give it up. The opposition has twice as many seats as you. It's fucking over.

Agreed. Obama should have resigned when the Republicans won the House.

Oh right, I forgot this is the presidential continent.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
still doesn't mean he can go call out what amounts to an Article V on them just so he can run the country
"muh ebil cutthroat capitalists"
don't be a power-mad shithead Maduro...lolnope
and that's why we're here.

[Bakery Hill]

Have you seen the "Socialist International" lately?

Yeah, point still stands. I doubt any of them would allow the US to plunder Venezuela like it had before, though they might be more aligned to have trade ties to the US and allow American companies more freedoms. I'd also say that's Venezuela's best choice out of any they have been presented with for them to fix their nation.

The SI as we know it today as a weird soup of neoliberals and post cold war parties of power. If memory serves me well up until a few years ago when there was a split both the German Social Democrats and the Algerian FLN were members. Unfortunately very few truly socialist parties are among its ranks.

I would not trust Venezuelan opposition parties for all their apparent "leftism". Let's not forget Batista and co. styled themselves in a similar way.

[Kvatchdom]

Yeah, point still stands. I doubt any of them would allow the US to plunder Venezuela like it had before, though they might be more aligned to have trade ties to the US and allow American companies more freedoms. I'd also say that's Venezuela's best choice out of any they have been presented with for them to fix their nation.

The SI as we know it today as a weird soup of neoliberals and post cold war parties of power. If memory serves me well up until a few years ago when there was a split both the German Social Democrats and the Algerian FLN were members. Unfortunately very few truly socialist parties are among its ranks.

I would not trust Venezuelan opposition parties for all their apparent "leftism". Let's not forget Batista and co. styled themselves in a similar way.

The Finnish SDP, who are members, were neoliberal for a time but reverted back to their older positions in 2015, and it remains the largest left-wing gathering of political parties, even if there are fraudulent left-wing parties within it. And third-way shills are preferable to the likes of Maduro, incompetent pseudo-socialists with no motivation for socialism in the first place.

Batista and co. Had very clear platforms when running.

[Bakery Hill]

Agreed. Obama should have resigned when the Republicans won the House.

Oh right, I forgot this is the presidential continent.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
still doesn't mean he can go call out what amounts to an Article V on them just so he can run the country
"muh ebil cutthroat capitalists"
don't be a power-mad shithead Maduro...lolnope
and that's why we're here.

They tried to topple him via a referendum, the constitutional court, rightly or wrongly, denied their appeal. Now instead of wait til next year they've decided to go for dual power. This is basically insurrection.

Maduro will probably arrest them now as rebels. Some sort of civil unrest will begin. If elements of the security forces join in, it becomes a bloody civil war, which the right will probably win by virtue of American intervention. If the security force stay loyal, expect a Contras style insurgency bankrolled by American dollars. Either way this will seriously fuck up the continent.

[Bakery Hill]

The SI as we know it today as a weird soup of neoliberals and post cold war parties of power. If memory serves me well up until a few years ago when there was a split both the German Social Democrats and the Algerian FLN were members. Unfortunately very few truly socialist parties are among its ranks.

I would not trust Venezuelan opposition parties for all their apparent "leftism". Let's not forget Batista and co. styled themselves in a similar way.

The Finnish SDP, who are members, were neoliberal for a time but reverted back to their older positions in 2015, and it remains the largest left-wing gathering of political parties, even if there are fraudulent left-wing parties within it. And third-way shills are preferable to the likes of Maduro, incompetent pseudo-socialists with no motivation for socialism in the first place.

Batista and co. Had very clear platforms when running.

Perhaps, but I feel we're beyond the point where these things matter in Venezuela. I can't see a peaceful resolution.

[Kvatchdom]

The Finnish SDP, who are members, were neoliberal for a time but reverted back to their older positions in 2015, and it remains the largest left-wing gathering of political parties, even if there are fraudulent left-wing parties within it. And third-way shills are preferable to the likes of Maduro, incompetent pseudo-socialists with no motivation for socialism in the first place.

Batista and co. Had very clear platforms when running.

Perhaps, but I feel we're beyond the point where these things matter in Venezuela. I can't see a peaceful resolution.

Fair enough, yeah. I just hope Maduro's not going to try to shaggle with the election next year.

[St Mary s Island]

I think realistically the best short term option to keep Venezuelans alive and not miserable is to encourage the black market. There need to be several offshore oil rigs that are turned into trading platforms, and first world nations need to patrol sea lanes on either side of trade lanes to these platforms. I think Brazilian Reals should be the medium of exchange, although it's likely more realistic that US Dollars will continue to be used, since reals can be used further inland. While there's no protecting the trade routes between Venezuela and neighboring countries via land from the government, individual people can manage to sneak reals past the borders. The solutions I'm proposing largely reflect what's already being implemented, although the suggestion that the rest of the world formally look the other way is a bit... unrealistic still, I think. Everything that can go into and out of the country without the country's own authorities being the wiser is, in my view, a victory.

[Bakery Hill]

Perhaps, but I feel we're beyond the point where these things matter in Venezuela. I can't see a peaceful resolution.

Fair enough, yeah. I just hope Maduro's not going to try to shaggle with the election next year.

Imo it would have been far better for him to have stepped down a while back, and handed the opposition that poisoned economic chalice, while the nation's genuinely socialist forces reorganised themselves. But it's far too late for that now. At the stage this is going, who knows what the next election will look like or when it will even happen.

[Kvatchdom]

Fair enough, yeah. I just hope Maduro's not going to try to shaggle with the election next year.

Imo it would have been far better for him to have stepped down a while back, and handed the opposition that poisoned economic chalice, while the nation's genuinely socialist forces reorganised themselves. But it's far too late for that now. At the stage this is going, who knows what the next election will look like or when it will even happen.

Chavez chose his follower badly. Trying to push the population too far will always result in them voting against you.

[The Ninja5 Empire]

Maduro is a complete dickhead IMO. He's probably just gonna have the elections rigged or limit opposition funds just to remain in power.

[Belkan America]

Maybe if the opposition would do stuff democratically and not act like a bunch of violent thugs then that wouldn't happen. I like how you defend them like they've done nothing wrong, also just because you're mad at the government gives you no right to burn people, houses or health clinics.

>"Maybe if the opposition would do stuff democratically and not act like a bunch of violent thugs"
>The government calls every step the opposition makes a undemocratic act and stops them on making any democratic action on improving the situation.

You not even live here.

[Lonograd]

Maybe if the opposition would do stuff democratically and not act like a bunch of violent thugs then that wouldn't happen. I like how you defend them like they've done nothing wrong, also just because you're mad at the government gives you no right to burn people, houses or health clinics.

>"Maybe if the opposition would do stuff democratically and not act like a bunch of violent thugs"
>The government calls every step the opposition makes a undemocratic act and stops them on making any democratic action on improving the situation.

You not even live here.

Oh yes because those thugs you call an "opposition" are so much better, setting a man on fire is really going to help the Venezuelan people. Of course you probably thing Madruo is the next Stalin.

[Belkan America]

[
Oh yes because those thugs you call an "opposition" are so much better, setting a man on fire is really going to help the Venezuelan people. Of course you probably thing Madruo is the next Stalin.

I didn't said those things. The MUD is falling into the clown hole, there's people who want a dialogue and people who want to punish them (i'm near of that zone, but not that near(i just want to send the government officers as far of Venezuela as possible to hide behind their Russo-Chinese-Cuban masters like the puppets they are)), they don't have a strong leadership, a Chavez-like one. Maduro and pals are only a Ladrónes de Mierda controled by a Narco-Army (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartel_of_the_Suns). The "Economic War" is just a really stupid lie, if the US and pals just could control the world economy like that.
ALL HAIL THE EURO-AMERICAN EMPIRE.

let's go to rumberar m8, i pay everything. (that's Diosdado Cabello btw)

[Tectonix]

>"Maybe if the opposition would do stuff democratically and not act like a bunch of violent thugs"
>The government calls every step the opposition makes a undemocratic act and stops them on making any democratic action on improving the situation.

You not even live here.

Oh yes because those thugs you call an "opposition" are so much better, setting a man on fire is really going to help the Venezuelan people. Of course you probably thing Madruo is the next Stalin.

Mate, literally your only talking points are that they may have set a man on fire and that they are "thugs." Literally that's it. The opposition-controlled National Assembly has been blocked at every turn (democratically-elected, I'll remind you) by the fully-Chavista Tribunal of Justice, including trying to exercise its own right to choose magistrates for said Tribunal. But no, one of their followers burns a man that is not representative of their organisation, and suddenly they are neoliberal US puppets. On the ballot of the Constitutional Assembly, there wasn't a SINGLE opposition candidate — but no, one guy was burned in their name, so therefore they are terrorists and don't deserve to be on that ballot, even though the Guardia Nacional have killed dozens upon dozens and still get to have all of their precious Chavista candidates.

You really have the gall to call a majority of voting Venezuelans "violent thugs," that's for sure. Also, about that "U.S. embargo" — there is none. The US has only imposed sanctions on a handful Venezuelan senior government officials, but that's it.

[Greater Miami Shores]

[
Oh yes because those thugs you call an "opposition" are so much better, setting a man on fire is really going to help the Venezuelan people. Of course you probably thing Madruo is the next Stalin.

I didn't said those things. The MUD is falling into the clown hole, there's people who want a dialogue and people who want to punish them (i'm near of that zone, but not that near(i just want to send the government officers as far of Venezuela as possible to hide behind their Russo-Chinese-Cuban masters like the puppets they are)), they don't have a strong leadership, a Chavez-like one. Maduro and pals are only a Ladrónes de Mierda controled by a Narco-Army (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartel_of_the_Suns). The "Economic War" is just a really stupid lie, if the US and pals just could control the world economy like that.
ALL HAIL THE EURO-AMERICAN EMPIRE.

let's go to rumberar m8, i pay everything. (that's Diosdado Cabello btw)

Yes, now I remember you are Venezuelan, you know what you are talking about. You and I know what we are talking about for abvious reasons. I have been posting a little here and there about the Cuban connection and I keep getting ignored on it, except for one news story Rio Cana posted that talked a little about the Cuban connection.

As I have posted before, I visited Caracas Venezuela about a year or so before Chavez took power, when my Cuban family emigrated legally to Venezuela with the help of la casa de los presos politicos Cubanos in Venezuela, the house of former Cuban political prisoners, where they stayed for a while, which is named and founded after a relative of mine.

I donated a $1,000 dollars to the house in thanks for their help in getting my family the hell out of that so called communist socialist paradise island nation of Cuba, many of my fellow nation staters support deny and or excuse, even the one's who are not communist socialists.

I rented an apartment for my Cuban family in petare Caracas and sent them Cuban family remittances, while they waited to emigrate legally to Miami and the USA. They asked me to post on this thread their thanks and admiration for the Venezuelan people for standing up to the Venezuelan communist socialist dictatorship for life, which I did.

My family member once wrote to me from Cuba saying get me, my wife and two teenage sons the hell out of Cuba before they reach military age, are indoctrinated and aren't allowed to emigrate with us. I redoubled my efforts trying to get them out.

When we visited the Peruvian consulate in Chicago, when I made a negative statement of Fidel, Raúl and Cuba, you should have seen the face of expression of support for the Cuban regime of the consul general of Peru, he was no help at all.

We once got swindled out of $ 10,000 dollars by an Argentinian in Miami who claimed to have connections and could get us visas from other nations, when we got suspicious they quickly disappeared from their office never to be found, along with other Cuban American's money, desperate to get their families the hell out of that so called communist socialist paradise island nation of Cuba, many of my fellow nation staters support, deny and or excuse, including the one's who are not communist socialists. Crazy Cuban Alberto.

[Thyrgga]

They should introduce free market capitalism.

[Minoa]

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-40784516

The US has now sanctioned Nicolás Maduro in response to yesterday's poll.

The US will freeze all of Nicolás Maduro’s assets under their jurisdiction, and prohibit US citizens from doing business with Nicolás Maduro.

[Tectonix]

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-40784516

The US has now sanctioned Nicolás Maduro in response to yesterday's poll.

The US will freeze all of Nicolás Maduro’s assets under their jurisdiction, and prohibit US citizens from doing business with Nicolás Maduro.

A step in the right direction, but more needs to be done.

[Belkan America]

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-40784516

The US has now sanctioned Nicolás Maduro in response to yesterday's poll.

The US will freeze all of Nicolás Maduro’s assets under their jurisdiction, and prohibit US citizens from doing business with Nicolás Maduro.

Yay!.

That was a nice move. Now the rest of the PSUV.