Venezuela 2017

[Bakery Hill]

Yes they plainly are. Why wouldn't they be?

They're helping people express their opinions because Maduro doesn't want to let them. That's what the referendum was about.

Is that why he let them win the legislative election?

[Belkan America]

Who cares if they deserve it? Anyway, if I hope you're looking forward for the yankee backed firesale that's gonna tear through after all this is done. See you later social programs and public institutions.

The government didn't gave me a shit.

The government can't help everyone, the people should support themselves, that's how a nation grows. Because the people have the need to work, not because the state treats them as disabled children.

[Geilinor]

They're helping people express their opinions because Maduro doesn't want to let them. That's what the referendum was about.

Is that why he let them win the legislative election?

Followed by the Supreme Court of Venuzuela attempting to abolish the National Assembly.

[Bakery Hill]

Who cares if they deserve it? Anyway, if I hope you're looking forward for the yankee backed firesale that's gonna tear through after all this is done. See you later social programs and public institutions.

The government didn't gave me a shit.

The government can't help everyone, the people should support themselves, that's how a nation grows. Because the people have the need to work, not because the state treats them as disabled children.

Charming. Good to know the latifundia mindset is still alive after all these years.

[Bakery Hill]

Is that why he let them win the legislative election?

Followed by the Supreme Court of Venuzuela attempting to abolish the National Assembly.

Followed two years later in the middle of a constitutional crisis where the legislature was dubiously trying to terminate the executive. Probably not a good move on Maduro's part, but context helps dear.

[Belkan America]

The government didn't gave me a shit.

The government can't help everyone, the people should support themselves, that's how a nation grows. Because the people have the need to work, not because the state treats them as disabled children.

Charming. Good to know the latifundia mindset is still alive after all these years.

S E R R I C O E S M A L O

- Chavez

---

Now you can tell me why the Chavismo are the "Great guardians of Latin America and the Bolivar's dream against the Empire"?.

[Bakery Hill]

Charming. Good to know the latifundia mindset is still alive after all these years.

S E R R I C O E S M A L O

- Chavez

By the look of it, Chavez was right there too.

Now you can tell me why the Chavismo are the "Great guardians of Latin America and the Bolivar's dream against the Empire"?.

Should I? Why should I?

[Minoa]

Me while browsing for the latest Venezuelan banknotes:

I don't know what you think, but I’m not paying £36.99 to add the latest 20,000 BsF. banknote into my collection, with the black market rates well into the 8,000s per US Dollar.

[Hydesland]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-lati ... ela-voting

[Bakery Hill]

This is one of the best takes I've seen on the whole thing to be quite honest.

As Nicolás Maduro’s increasingly antidemocratic government battles violent right-wing forces, ordinary Venezuelans are watching the gains of Chavismo slip away.

https://jacobinmag.com/2017/07/venezuel ... tivism-oil

[Hydesland]

The opposition wanted the Maduro regime to step down on their own accord, at the time when Maduro made the right-wing military coup claims.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3S7_-vxzdk

I mean I could try and forget over a century of Latin American history and fool myself into thinking the Opposition are liberal democratic angels operating entirely independent of US foreign policy but Honduras was only in 2009 so it's a little hard.

When you live in an apocalyptic wasteland of hyperinflation and people starving to death - do you expect regular citizens not to oppose the sitting authoritarian regime - do you expect all opposition to be astroturfing Americans?

[Bakery Hill]

I mean I could try and forget over a century of Latin American history and fool myself into thinking the Opposition are liberal democratic angels operating entirely independent of US foreign policy but Honduras was only in 2009 so it's a little hard.

When you live in an apocalyptic wasteland of hyperinflation and people starving to death - do you expect regular citizens not to oppose the sitting authoritarian regime - do you expect all opposition to be astroturfing Americans?

Minus the hyperbole on both counts I expect this

Make the economy scream.

http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB8/nsaebb8i.htm

[Hydesland]

When you live in an apocalyptic wasteland of hyperinflation and people starving to death - do you expect regular citizens not to oppose the sitting authoritarian regime - do you expect all opposition to be astroturfing Americans?

Minus the hyperbole on both counts I expect this

Make the economy scream.

http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB8/nsaebb8i.htm

So the 60 year old woman who was just shot dead, was she CIA or NSA?

[Kubra]

I mean I could try and forget over a century of Latin American history and fool myself into thinking the Opposition are liberal democratic angels operating entirely independent of US foreign policy but Honduras was only in 2009 so it's a little hard.

When you live in an apocalyptic wasteland of hyperinflation and people starving to death - do you expect regular citizens not to oppose the sitting authoritarian regime - do you expect all opposition to be astroturfing Americans?

what's distrusted is not the sentiment, not the folks on the street, but the parties vying for power. That's where things get dicey.
During the breakup of the Soviet Union there was honest folks who wanted democratic governance and a liberal economy and wanted to make it work, but Yeltsin is the guy the states threw their weight behind.

[Bakery Hill]

Minus the hyperbole on both counts I expect this



http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB8/nsaebb8i.htm

So the 60 year old woman who was just shot dead, was she CIA or NSA?

So talking about the political realities here mean I want old ladies to get shot in the street?

Read the Jacobin article I put up. Those are my opinions, or close enough that it doesn't matter.

[Geilinor]

When you live in an apocalyptic wasteland of hyperinflation and people starving to death - do you expect regular citizens not to oppose the sitting authoritarian regime - do you expect all opposition to be astroturfing Americans?

what's distrusted is not the sentiment, not the folks on the street, but the parties vying for power. That's where things get dicey.

The folks on the street want to try new parties in power and should have that democratic right.

[Geilinor]

So the 60 year old woman who was just shot dead, was she CIA or NSA?

So talking about the political realities here mean I want old ladies to get shot in the street?

You think they're CIA stooges.

[Belkan America]

Should I? Why should I?

"Charming. Good to know the latifundia mindset is still alive after all these years."
Because i want to know, why, why a maybe british(?) guy that knows what in going on in Venezuela is defending a government that it seems that has the mission of destroy this nation and then escape seeing the fire they provoked, meanwhile a guy that is in the field and doesn't know what is going on because this government controls almost every big media in Venezuela is trying to undestand a guy like you.

[Geilinor]

S E R R I C O E S M A L O

- Chavez

By the look of it, Chavez was right there too.

Now you can tell me why the Chavismo are the "Great guardians of Latin America and the Bolivar's dream against the Empire"?.

Should I? Why should I?

Because Bolivar was a conservative and would probably have launched a revolution against Chavez if he had been around.

[Hydesland]

When you live in an apocalyptic wasteland of hyperinflation and people starving to death - do you expect regular citizens not to oppose the sitting authoritarian regime - do you expect all opposition to be astroturfing Americans?

what's distrusted is not the sentiment, not the folks on the street, but the parties vying for power. That's where things get dicey.
During the breakup of the Soviet Union there was honest folks who wanted democratic governance and a liberal economy and wanted to make it work, but Yeltsin is the guy the states threw their weight behind.

Yeltsin was sketchy and corrupt as fuck but at least he was genuinely interested in significant nuclear disarmament and cold war de-escalation, it's hardly surprising the West would back him initially.

[Bakery Hill]

When you live in an apocalyptic wasteland of hyperinflation and people starving to death - do you expect regular citizens not to oppose the sitting authoritarian regime - do you expect all opposition to be astroturfing Americans?

what's distrusted is not the sentiment, not the folks on the street, but the parties vying for power. That's where things get dicey.
During the breakup of the Soviet Union there was honest folks who wanted democratic governance and a liberal economy and wanted to make it work, but Yeltsin is the guy the states threw their weight behind.

The same people leading the opposition, like everyone's favourite poster boy Leopoldo Lopez, also played leading roles in the 2002 coup against Chavez when he tried to get control over the oil industry. Does that mean I deny that Maduro's government is spiraling out of control, and there's no real way out? No. I'm just tired of this constant liberal cheerleading of "pro-Western" opposition groups, the same kind that saw everyone cheer Joe Biden when he was praising actual Neo Nazis in Ukraine. There are no good guys and bad guys, there's just classes and factions, they use the same methods and only rarely do they think in different ways.

[Kubra]

what's distrusted is not the sentiment, not the folks on the street, but the parties vying for power. That's where things get dicey.

The folks on the street want to try new parties in power and should have that democratic right.

no one is saying stick with the PSUV, just to not take whatever party comes into power uncritically. That's the problem with us Westerners, we're so set on the victory that we forgot to pay attention to the aftermath.

[Kubra]

what's distrusted is not the sentiment, not the folks on the street, but the parties vying for power. That's where things get dicey.
During the breakup of the Soviet Union there was honest folks who wanted democratic governance and a liberal economy and wanted to make it work, but Yeltsin is the guy the states threw their weight behind.

Yeltsin was sketchy and corrupt as fuck but at least he was genuinely interested in significant nuclear disarmament and cold war de-escalation, it's hardly surprising the West would back him initially.

there were some folks with comparable initial approval ratings to Yeltsin who, unlike Yeltsin, were honest people with much the same policies up front, some of which were in the same rough camp until shock therapy set in.

[Bakery Hill]

So talking about the political realities here mean I want old ladies to get shot in the street?

You think they're CIA stooges.

People rioting because all manner of reasons. People are attending the opposition's vote for all manner of reasons. Does this mean they're in the pay of the CIA? No, that's ridiculous. But the conditions of this crisis were exacerbated by the US and domestic ruling class and the leaders of the opposition have had significant American support for at least fifteen years. These are the social and political realities I'm talking about. These sort of claims were ridiculed when socialists made them about Chile. Lo and behold the government files proved them right.

I suppose I could call you a CIA stooge though. But that wouldn't be entirely accurate either.

[MERIZoC]

what's distrusted is not the sentiment, not the folks on the street, but the parties vying for power. That's where things get dicey.
During the breakup of the Soviet Union there was honest folks who wanted democratic governance and a liberal economy and wanted to make it work, but Yeltsin is the guy the states threw their weight behind.

Yeltsin was sketchy and corrupt as fuck but at least he was genuinely interested in significant nuclear disarmament and cold war de-escalation, it's hardly surprising the West would back him initially.

And continuing mass sell-offs of state-owned industry.