Venezuela 2017

[Senkaku]

The U.S. didn't have a problem with supporting coup plotters back in 2001.

Yeah, but the US gains nothing from this kind of protracted instability. If we want regime change in Venezuela, far better to back a nice neat coup d'etat than have this knock-down drag-out long-term crisis reducing the entire country to anarchy.

[Costa Fierro]

All that being said, I tend to think the U.S. backed opposition is garbage, but that doesn't make a lot of the Chavista elite any better.

Most of the opposition parties are broadly centrist to left wing, they're just not overt socialists like the PSUV. I'd hardly call them representative of US corporate interests.

[Great Minarchistan]

All that being said, I tend to think the U.S. backed opposition is garbage, but that doesn't make a lot of the Chavista elite any better.

Most of the opposition parties are broadly centrist to left wing, they're just not overt socialists like the PSUV. I'd hardly call them representative of US corporate interests.

Left-wing governments can be corporatist, too. Just look at Lula da Silva and Dilma Rousseff, for example.

[Rintamamiestalo]

The U.S. didn't have a problem with supporting coup plotters back in 2001.

Yeah, but the US gains nothing from this kind of protracted instability. If we want regime change in Venezuela, far better to back a nice neat coup d'etat than have this knock-down drag-out long-term crisis reducing the entire country to anarchy.

I think the U.S. needs to stop being the world's police force and guardian of "democracy" (which it never has been in the first place) and focus on acting more passively in international relations. Intervening yet again in Latin America, to support an opposition that doesn't have the backing of most of the population (who are largely silent, non-Maduro supporting Chavistas) is not intelligent and not civil.

[G-Tech Corporation]

Yeah, but the US gains nothing from this kind of protracted instability. If we want regime change in Venezuela, far better to back a nice neat coup d'etat than have this knock-down drag-out long-term crisis reducing the entire country to anarchy.

I think the U.S. needs to stop being the world's police force and guardian of "democracy" (which it never has been in the first place) and focus on acting more passively in international relations. Intervening yet again in Latin America, to support an opposition that doesn't have the backing of most of the population (who are largely silent, non-Maduro supporting Chavistas) is not intelligent and not civil.

[Citation needed]

[Rintamamiestalo]

I think the U.S. needs to stop being the world's police force and guardian of "democracy" (which it never has been in the first place) and focus on acting more passively in international relations. Intervening yet again in Latin America, to support an opposition that doesn't have the backing of most of the population (who are largely silent, non-Maduro supporting Chavistas) is not intelligent and not civil.

[Citation needed]

Don't have a citation, but even if they were supported by the majority of the population (and I mean, yeah, sure, at this point there is more support for the opposition than for the Chavistas, but I don't think that means people generally like the opposition), I don't believe the U.S. should get involved. I personally know a number of people originally from Venezuela, and they have told me that most people (at least those they know) were generally pro-Chavez, still admire Chavez, but have come to strongly dislike Maduro and the PSUV.

[Geilinor]

[Citation needed]

Don't have a citation, but even if they were supported by the majority of the population (and I mean, yeah, sure, at this point there is more support for the opposition than for the Chavistas, but I don't think that means people generally like the opposition), I don't believe the U.S. should get involved. I personally know a number of people originally from Venezuela, and they have told me that most people (at least those they know) were generally pro-Chavez, still admire Chavez, but have come to strongly dislike Maduro and the PSUV.

Chavez is no longer in power. If they dislike Maduro and the PSUV, they will not vote for it. The opposition won a supermajority in the legislature and gathered enough signatures for a recall referendum.

[MERIZoC]

Opposition protesters have lynched another black man.
https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/13158

Anyone who decries "violent protest" in the west, but refuses to condemn the actions taken by many protesters in Venezuela is nothing short of a rank hypocrite.

[Geilinor]

Opposition protesters have lynched another black man.
https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/13158

Anyone who decries "violent protest" in the west, but refuses to condemn the actions taken by many protesters in Venezuela is nothing short of a rank hypocrite.

This section is dedicated to solidarity with Venezuela's poor majority in their struggle for self determination and freedom from imperialist interference.

That's a Chavista rag.

[MERIZoC]

Opposition protesters have lynched another black man.
https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/13158

Anyone who decries "violent protest" in the west, but refuses to condemn the actions taken by many protesters in Venezuela is nothing short of a rank hypocrite.

This section is dedicated to solidarity with Venezuela's poor majority in their struggle for self determination and freedom from imperialist interference.

That's a Chavista rag.

"anything that supports poor people is a chavista rag"

This is an excellent insight into your elitist psyche, geil

[Geilinor]

That's a Chavista rag.

"anything that supports poor people is a chavista rag"

This is an excellent insight into your elitist psyche, geil

"Freedom from imperialist interference". I've never heard anyone other than Chavez fans claim imperialism in Venezuela.

[MERIZoC]

"anything that supports poor people is a chavista rag"

This is an excellent insight into your elitist psyche, geil

"Freedom from imperialist interference". I've never heard anyone other than Chavez fans claim imperialism in Venezuela.

get out more then

[Costa Fierro]

Yeah, but the US gains nothing from this kind of protracted instability. If we want regime change in Venezuela, far better to back a nice neat coup d'etat than have this knock-down drag-out long-term crisis reducing the entire country to anarchy.

I think the U.S. needs to stop being the world's police force and guardian of "democracy" (which it never has been in the first place) and focus on acting more passively in international relations. Intervening yet again in Latin America, to support an opposition that doesn't have the backing of most of the population (who are largely silent, non-Maduro supporting Chavistas) is not intelligent and not civil.

Considering that the opposition has control over the Venezuelan Congress, that assumption that the protesters do not support the main opposition parties is a bit out of touch with the reality of Venezuela.

Don't have a citation, but even if they were supported by the majority of the population (and I mean, yeah, sure, at this point there is more support for the opposition than for the Chavistas, but I don't think that means people generally like the opposition), I don't believe the U.S. should get involved. I personally know a number of people originally from Venezuela, and they have told me that most people (at least those they know) were generally pro-Chavez, still admire Chavez, but have come to strongly dislike Maduro and the PSUV.

So, one minute the protesters are mostly silent Chavistas and now you're saying that they're supportive of the opposition parties?

"anything that supports poor people is a chavista rag"

This is an excellent insight into your elitist psyche, geil

It certainly isn't as objective as you claim it is.

Anyone who decries "violent protest" in the west, but refuses to condemn the actions taken by many protesters in Venezuela is nothing short of a rank hypocrite.

So we have an isolated incident of one person being lynched and all of a sudden, the entire protest movement is a bunch of alt-right racists? Come on Merizoc. This is desperate.

[MERIZoC]

You think this is the only case of violence costa? Last week—a man set on fire.
https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/13159
You can find the link to the video in there, I'm not gonna link it in case it breaks any rules.

A month ago—a maternity hospital attacked by protesters.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/21/children-evacuated-venezuela-hospital-hit-tear-gas-death-toll/

Rosalinda Prieto, the hospital director, was quoted by local media as saying the facility was under assault for almost three hours.

“We were attacked by violent groups who launched a rain of stones and blunt objects at us. Afterwards, they burned a great quantity of rubbish in front of the hospital and the smoke got inside the facility. There were recently born babies there in the emergency area, some in observation.”

She said the attackers then tried to enter the hospital, at which point they called the authorities for help. The children have been relocated to other medical facilities in Caracas.

Make no mistake, government police have also committed condemnable acts of violence, and some of them have been charged (more than you get here lol). But the opposition are far from angels. The protests have gotten entirely out of hand.

[Costa Fierro]

You think this is the only case of violence costa?

I don't think it's the only act of violence, primarily because Venezuela is a violent place and these protests are violent. You've got a population who are desperate for the government to sort out the economic crisis and a government that thinks nothing is wrong.

A month ago—a maternity hospital attacked by protesters.

Do we know they were protesters? The article only referred to as "attackers". It's entirely possible that they could have been hired goons or collectivos.

Make no mistake, government police have also committed condemnable acts of violence, and some of them have been charged (more than you get here lol). But the opposition are far from angels. The protests have gotten entirely out of hand.

They have gotten out of hand because they have been met by violence. They're protesting against a government that is trying it's best to not only crush protesters but also try and undermine the very democracy that brought said government into power and sustained it. The people are starving, they are sick, and they are desperate for change. Non-violence hasn't worked because the police just respond by firing tear gas, use water cannons and rubber bullets.

And those officers have been charged for killing protesters. They haven't arrested those that loot, rob or conduct other criminal activities with impunity.

[Great Minarchistan]

[Citation needed]

Don't have a citation

So you better not say that only a minority supports the opposition, since you have no solid proof.

/thread

[Aboim]

Intervening yet again in Latin America, to support an opposition that doesn't have the backing of most of the population

February 24, 2015 - Venezuelan 14-year-old shot dead during anti-government protest

April 25, 2015 - Venezuela protest death toll rises in renewed violence

September 11, 2015 - Venezuela opposition leader Leopoldo López jailed for nearly 14 years

December 7, 2015 - Venezuela election: Maduro's Socialists trounced

May 20, 2016 - Venezuela's Nicolas Maduro is 'Crazy as a Goat', says former Uruguayan president

19 October, 2016 - Venezuela election delay sparks opposition anger

October 21, 2016 - Venezuela's Maduro recall referendum drive suspended

March 25, 2017 - Venezuela government 'terrified' of calling election

April 8, 2017 - Venezuela: Humanitarian Crisis Spilling into Brazil

May 2, 2017 - Venezuela's President Maduro calls for new constituent body

May 2, 2017 - Venezuela plan to rewrite constitution branded a coup by former regional allies

May 24, 2017 - Venezuela's Maduro presses on with constituent assembly

I think the U.S. needs to stop being the world's police force and guardian of "democracy" and focus on acting more passively in international relations.

It's not just the America. Venezuela needs the Americas. Immediately.

But the opposition are far from angels.

It's an angry mob. Nobody will be angel into an angry mob.

[San Marlindo]

The Ven. govt. is saying these protest are US supported. So today they nationalized a GM Venezuelan Auto manufacturing plant. GM is taking them to court.

The engines and automotive parts of many Venezuelan military vehicles use GM parts.

Not only that, the F-16s in their Air Force use American made parts. If they start nationalizing American companies their military will be shooting itself in the foot and be unable to operate effectively.

[Greed and Death]

The Ven. govt. is saying these protest are US supported. So today they nationalized a GM Venezuelan Auto manufacturing plant. GM is taking them to court.

Nationalizing is part of what got them into this mess Maybe not a good idea to keep doing it.

[Minoa]

Neither Venezuelanalysis.com nor TeleSUR are reliable sources at a time like this, however both sides are rapidly descending into violence due to the heavy-handed tactics of the National Guard and the Colectivo.

[G-Tech Corporation]

Neither Venezuelanalysis.com nor TeleSUR are reliable sources at a time like this, however both sides are rapidly descending into violence due to the heavy-handed tactics of the National Guard and the Colectivo.

Gorram government thugs.

[Bakery Hill]

Neither Venezuelanalysis.com nor TeleSUR are reliable sources at a time like this, however both sides are rapidly descending into violence due to the heavy-handed tactics of the National Guard and the Colectivo.

Gorram government thugs.

What about the opposition thugs?

[G-Tech Corporation]

Gorram government thugs.

What about the opposition thugs?

When I say thugs, I mean men and women paid to commit acts of violence and coordinated by a central authority. I sincerely doubt the opposition has any such members.

[Bakery Hill]

You think this is the only case of violence costa? Last week—a man set on fire.
https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/13159
You can find the link to the video in there, I'm not gonna link it in case it breaks any rules.

A month ago—a maternity hospital attacked by protesters.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/21/children-evacuated-venezuela-hospital-hit-tear-gas-death-toll/

Rosalinda Prieto, the hospital director, was quoted by local media as saying the facility was under assault for almost three hours.

“We were attacked by violent groups who launched a rain of stones and blunt objects at us. Afterwards, they burned a great quantity of rubbish in front of the hospital and the smoke got inside the facility. There were recently born babies there in the emergency area, some in observation.”

She said the attackers then tried to enter the hospital, at which point they called the authorities for help. The children have been relocated to other medical facilities in Caracas.

Make no mistake, government police have also committed condemnable acts of violence, and some of them have been charged (more than you get here lol). But the opposition are far from angels. The protests have gotten entirely out of hand.

Pretty much. There's assassinations of Chavista activists left right and centre. But that doesn't fit the narrative does it?

[Bakery Hill]

What about the opposition thugs?

When I say thugs, I mean men and women paid to commit acts of violence and coordinated by a central authority. I sincerely doubt the opposition has any such members.

So basically only people employed by the state? What a strange and convenient definition.