Venezuela 2017

[Secundus Imperium Romanum]

it's not all sunshine and roses after that bruv
decline can become even greater crisis if mismanaged, privatisation and market reform in places highly rank for corruption can mean more proverbial loot and plunder instead of positive economic reform.
That's not to say that it's better off sticking with Maduro, simply that you gotta keep a real eye out on who replaces him.

The opposition in Venezuela is mediocre like most of the liberal pro business parties in latinoamerica, that's why a charismatic putschist like Chavéz won the elections two times (and now he even has a tv series). They will end like Brazil or Argentina, maybe worst since they are an oil dependant nation without industry.

I am liberal, but the right is growing ABSURD
In the north and northeast region, which past elections more than 95% of the population voted in the Socialists, is turning into a stronghold of right-wing and highly conservative parties

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jair_Bolsonaro Our future president in 2018, our beloved brazilian trump

[Great Minarchistan]

The opposition in Venezuela is mediocre like most of the liberal pro business parties in latinoamerica, that's why a charismatic putschist like Chavéz won the elections two times (and now he even has a tv series). They will end like Brazil or Argentina, maybe worst since they are an oil dependant nation without industry.

I am liberal, but the right is growing ABSURD
In the north and northeast region, which past elections more than 95% of the population voted in the Socialists, is turning into a stronghold of right-wing and highly conservative parties

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jair_Bolsonaro Our future president in 2018, our beloved brazilian trump

Nonetheless to say, the libertarian community is growing quickly.

[Vaquas]

Watching the hard left rush to Maduro's defense is rich, given what he's been doing is clearly not working, reflecting on the ideology in general. It seems nothing is going to convince people that Authoritarian Socialism is ineffective and destructive.

Someone needs to arm the opposition and support the installation of a Capitalist Government that's willing to help build up the economy for future profit and sustainability instead of self-enriching in the short term and seizing everything. The Free Market is the solution on the economic end.

[Erutenia]

Time to Freedomize them

To turn Venezuela into a Libya and Iraq-style chaos and spread that AIDS through Latin America?. No thanks

Foolproof Plan for Maduro:
1) Class war, all power to the colectivos, expropriate industry.
2) Defend Venzuela from the inevitable Yankee Imperialist attack as a patriotic act, rally the masses to your banner.
3) Break their forces Bay of Pigs style. Release the survivors as a show of good will. Anti war sentiment in US picksup.
4) Begin funding supporting revolutionaries in America to overthrow their corrupt government.
5) Join with the newly liberated United Socialist States of America to liberate all of the Americas.
6) World Socialism in the 21st Century.

7) Cut my dick because it's a Imperialist organ.

[MERIZoC]

Venezuela will endure until 2018 in which new presidential elections will be called and the populist from the right will take the power.

I'm skeptical of this. It's possible, but from the look of the protests it doesn't seem like there's significant, meaningful anti government forces. Sure, a challenger has a chance, but it's not clear cut. Unfortunately, whoever that challenger is, they're probably gonna be worse than what's in place now.

[Costa Fierro]

Venezuela will endure until 2018 in which new presidential elections will be called and the populist from the right will take the power.

I'm skeptical of this. It's possible, but from the look of the protests it doesn't seem like there's significant, meaningful anti government forces. Sure, a challenger has a chance, but it's not clear cut. Unfortunately, whoever that challenger is, they're probably gonna be worse than what's in place now.

It's hard to do worse than having massive shortages of basic goods and managing to turn even the biggest supporters of Chavez against you. Not only that but Venezuela has effectively culled any substantial opposition movements through intimidation, which has seen a number of politicians flee overseas for their own safety and that of their families, or have outright imprisoned them for mostly trumped up charges.

Although it's only a matter of time before the government goes back to the Latin American tradition of murdering opposition politicians.

[MERIZoC]

I'm skeptical of this. It's possible, but from the look of the protests it doesn't seem like there's significant, meaningful anti government forces. Sure, a challenger has a chance, but it's not clear cut. Unfortunately, whoever that challenger is, they're probably gonna be worse than what's in place now.

It's hard to do worse than having massive shortages of basic goods and managing to turn even the biggest supporters of Chavez against you. Not only that but Venezuela has effectively culled any substantial opposition movements through intimidation, which has seen a number of politicians flee overseas for their own safety and that of their families, or have outright imprisoned them for mostly trumped up charges.

And I have doubts that a new government would be any different. The economy isn't getting better any time soon, and a lot of the opposition are borderline fascists, so you're not gonna see political rights flourish.

[MERIZoC]

I'd love to see the partition plan from the 8 people that want to break Venezuela into several nations. Perhaps they could draw it on a napkin like Sebby did for Libya.

[Great Minarchistan]

It's hard to do worse than having massive shortages of basic goods and managing to turn even the biggest supporters of Chavez against you. Not only that but Venezuela has effectively culled any substantial opposition movements through intimidation, which has seen a number of politicians flee overseas for their own safety and that of their families, or have outright imprisoned them for mostly trumped up charges.

And I have doubts that a new government would be any different. The economy isn't getting better any time soon, and a lot of the opposition are borderline fascists, so you're not gonna see political rights flourish.

"borderline fascists"

I mean, sure if you are using Maduro's definition of them.

[G-Tech Corporation]

I'd love to see the partition plan from the 8 people that want to break Venezuela into several nations. Perhaps they could draw it on a napkin like Sebby did for Libya.

I personally endorse that option. It would, at the very least, let Maduro and his thugs hurt least people by aggregate.

[Iengal]

tag

[MERIZoC]

I'd love to see the partition plan from the 8 people that want to break Venezuela into several nations. Perhaps they could draw it on a napkin like Sebby did for Libya.

I personally endorse that option. It would, at the very least, let Maduro and his thugs hurt least people by aggregate.

And instead you would...plunge the country into complete and abject chaos?

[Great Minarchistan]

I personally endorse that option. It would, at the very least, let Maduro and his thugs hurt least people by aggregate.

And instead you would...plunge the country into complete and abject chaos?

Give it to Brazil. No chaos anymore, problem solved. Boom.

[G-Tech Corporation]

I personally endorse that option. It would, at the very least, let Maduro and his thugs hurt least people by aggregate.

And instead you would...plunge the country into complete and abject chaos?

Eh. Out of the poll options offered, sure.

[Senkaku]

Why isn't one of the poll options "Surrender, Dorothy"? Surely OP can't think Maduro staying in power is going to resolve the crisis.

[Liriena]

Speaking from a position of slightly closer proximity than, I imagine, most of my fellow posters here... I'm not entirely sure what to expect of Venezuela in the coming days. Chavismo has survived moments of crisis before, but this time around it does look like the odds are not in Maduro's favor, even if he can count on the continued loyalty of the military and his party. At this point, I think we are definitely looking at a government in agony, and what remains to be determined is whether the situation will continue to escalate, leading to either a violent ouster or a prolongued civil conflict, or whether it will deescalate, and a transition will begin.

Other than that, I have a couple of comments to make:
1. I do not appreciate any talk of American military intervention. If this crisis is going to be solved, it's going to be solved by the Venezuelan people and their neighbours.
2. While I am personally not fond of Maduro, or Chavismo as a whole, unlike many fellow socialists, particularly Latin American ones, I would not be so quick to unilaterally dump all responsibility for Venezuela's problems on him or Chavismo as a whole. I believe there is at least some validity to the idea that other forces, particularly economic interests foreign and domestic, have spent the past years working hard to destabilize the government. The government itself may suck at its job, but their failures and atrocities are not solely due to their malice or incompetence.

[Liriena]

Venezuela will endure until 2018 in which new presidential elections will be called and the populist from the right will take the power.

I'm skeptical of this. It's possible, but from the look of the protests it doesn't seem like there's significant, meaningful anti government forces. Sure, a challenger has a chance, but it's not clear cut. Unfortunately, whoever that challenger is, they're probably gonna be worse than what's in place now.

Yeah. One thing that has consistently bothered me about Chavismo and its peers elsewhere in South America is that, even if you see them as victims of foreign and domestic economic interests leading defamation and destabilization campaigns, they may have successfully neutralized any possibility of a left-leaning opposition that could one day succeed them without doing away with all their good policies and leading a revival of the worst neoliberal policies.

[G-Tech Corporation]

2. While I am personally not fond of Maduro, or Chavismo as a whole, unlike many fellow socialists, particularly Latin American ones, I would not be so quick to unilaterally dump all responsibility for Venezuela's problems on him or Chavismo as a whole. I believe there is at least some validity to the idea that other forces, particularly economic interests foreign and domestic, have spent the past years working hard to destabilize the government. The government itself may suck at its job, but their failures and atrocities are not solely due to their malice or incompetence.

Psh, you only say that because you're a dirty pinko

I blame corruption and mismanagement, not malice or socialism. Cronyism is most certainly at play on an endemic scale in Venezuela, and needs no help from ebil Westerners to ruin a country; case in point, Zimbabwe. Equally, Venezuela built the house of cards of Chavismo on a foundation of oil money- it isn't exactly surprising that with oil prices no longer at record highs, the system doesn't work. If anything Venezuela could have used some advice from ancient Rome. The bread subsidies as a means of keeping a government spinning only work when you have cheap grain. If you can't get that, the plebeians burn down the city.

[Major-Tom]

I'm skeptical of this. It's possible, but from the look of the protests it doesn't seem like there's significant, meaningful anti government forces. Sure, a challenger has a chance, but it's not clear cut. Unfortunately, whoever that challenger is, they're probably gonna be worse than what's in place now.

Yeah. One thing that has consistently bothered me about Chavismo and its peers elsewhere in South America is that, even if you see them as victims of foreign and domestic economic interests leading defamation and destabilization campaigns, they may have successfully neutralized any possibility of a left-leaning opposition that could one day succeed them without doing away with all their good policies and leading a revival of the worst neoliberal policies.

I mean - if you want an example of how neoliberal policies fucked over parts of Latin America, look no further than Argentina. Fucking devalued currency fam.

[MERIZoC]

I'm skeptical of this. It's possible, but from the look of the protests it doesn't seem like there's significant, meaningful anti government forces. Sure, a challenger has a chance, but it's not clear cut. Unfortunately, whoever that challenger is, they're probably gonna be worse than what's in place now.

Yeah. One thing that has consistently bothered me about Chavismo and its peers elsewhere in South America is that, even if you see them as victims of foreign and domestic economic interests leading defamation and destabilization campaigns, they may have successfully neutralized any possibility of a left-leaning opposition that could one day succeed them without doing away with all their good policies and leading a revival of the worst neoliberal policies.

Peers elsewhere in Latin America? Mostly the left has been fantastic. Corerra, Morales, Mujica, etc etc were all great for their countries. Sure you had issues, especially in Brazil and Venezuela, but by and large they have been improvements. Even Chavez was not tooooo bad, until issues really started coming up with the drop in oil prices. I don't see why there's a need for a left leaning opposition when many of the pink tide countries enacted good, left-wing policies.

[Republic of the Cristo]

In order for Venezuela to recover, it's gotta do a lot of things - here is what I suggest:

1. He needs to enact austerity measures almost entirely acrossed the board. For about 20 years now Venezuela has been pouring billions of dollars into massive social welfare programs which were intended to elevate living conditions of the poor. They were successful in this regard, but these projects seldom ever contributed to the increase of national productivity or self sufficiency of the poor. With the massive budget of these programs, there is certainly more than a few billion that can be cut and reduce the government's need to print more money.

2. They need to diversify their economy. Currently, 80% of the national GDP is derived from the petrol market. Investments must be made in sustainable agriculture, industry, and service professions. Currently, agriculture makes up around 3% of the GDP and industry around 10%. If Venezuela were to lighten up on it's tax codes, increase property rights ( they have the lowest ranking in the world ), and subsidize certain profitable industries, we could see the market begin to diversify thus lessening the effects of the petrol crisis. It is important to note that this must all be done greenly. One of the nation's biggest industry is eco-tourism, and pollution from unsustainable farming practice or factory run-off could negatively impact that.

3. The Military high command needs to be replaced. As of current, Maduro has commissioned the military to send 3,000 troops nation wide to reduce the number of homicides ( mostly in the state of Miranda ). The military reports a decrease in homicide, but watchdogs actually report an increase. This shows that not only is the military incompetent but also corrupt. More competent and trust worthy officers must replace the chain of command.

4. The cartels have to be shut down hard. Venezuela is the fourth largest transit nation for cocaine in the world, and violence stemming from the cartels involved is a significant cause for many of the nations homicides - not to mention the inflation, negative impact on tourism, theft, counterfeit goods, and extortion. With a now renewed and competent military, organized crime groups would have to be cracked down on hard and fast. The decrease in crime would not only help the nation's image to tourists and investors, but it would also help domestic businesses and improve the overall quality of life.

5. Anti-corruption laws must be enforced! Venezuela ranks as one of the most corrupt nations in the world, and this is a huge reason why the country is descending into anarchy. Anti-corruption laws are seldom enforced, because much of the nations judicial system is itself corrupt. A special task force may be necessary to prosecute individuals guilty of corruption. The punishments themselves may need to be revised to be harsher, so as to deter others from.

So yeah, that's what I think.

[Liriena]

Yeah. One thing that has consistently bothered me about Chavismo and its peers elsewhere in South America is that, even if you see them as victims of foreign and domestic economic interests leading defamation and destabilization campaigns, they may have successfully neutralized any possibility of a left-leaning opposition that could one day succeed them without doing away with all their good policies and leading a revival of the worst neoliberal policies.

I mean - if you want an example of how neoliberal policies fucked over parts of Latin America, look no further than Argentina. Fucking devalued currency fam.

Don't get me started on our own economic stupidity.

[Major-Tom]

I mean - if you want an example of how neoliberal policies fucked over parts of Latin America, look no further than Argentina. Fucking devalued currency fam.

Don't get me started on our own economic stupidity.

Stick to what you guys know, good food and dancing.

[Republic of the Cristo]

Don't get me started on our own economic stupidity.

Stick to what you guys know, good food and dancing.

AND PERON!

[Liriena]

Yeah. One thing that has consistently bothered me about Chavismo and its peers elsewhere in South America is that, even if you see them as victims of foreign and domestic economic interests leading defamation and destabilization campaigns, they may have successfully neutralized any possibility of a left-leaning opposition that could one day succeed them without doing away with all their good policies and leading a revival of the worst neoliberal policies.

Peers elsewhere in Latin America? Mostly the left has been fantastic. Corerra, Morales, Mujica, etc etc were all great for their countries. Sure you had issues, especially in Brazil and Venezuela, but by and large they have been improvements. Even Chavez was not tooooo bad, until issues really started coming up with the drop in oil prices. I don't see why there's a need for a left leaning opposition when many of the pink tide countries enacted good, left-wing policies.

To be honest, I was speaking mostly in terms of Argentina and, to my embarrassment, kind of forgot all about Correa, Morales and Mujica. Pepe Mujica is a goddamn legend.