[UK] General Election 2017 Superthread

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

For those of you who think internal LibDem estimates of potential gains in a June are a little (or more than a little) on the optimistic side

As I said, feel free to take my 100 GBP bet on the Liberal Democrats getting more than 15 seats. It would show that at least one Liberal Democrat has a spine.

[The Archregimancy]

So, when Labour gets mauled due to Corbyn's brilliant ability to constantly ignore the gift-wrapped lines of attack and criticism the Tories have been handing out for months, will he finally go? Or will the party membership keep him in and complain about how the PLP is defying him for no reason?

There are at least some reports/speculation that Corbyn will refuse to immediately resign. The goal will be to cling on long enough to ensure the passage of a proposed change to party rules that would increase the chances of ensuring a left-wing succession.

Jeremy Corbyn is expected to stay on as Labour leader even if he leads his party to a crushing election defeat on June 8, The Independent can reveal.

Party figures close to the Labour leader have said there is a good chance Mr Corbyn will either refuse to resign or run again to retain power.

The key goal of Mr Corbyn’s group is that regardless of the election result, he cling to power at least until after party conference when his allies can attempt to change the system of electing the leader in a bid to secure a leftwing successor.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 91911.html

Beyond June, there is a feeling that even a landslide defeat wouldn’t kill the Corbyn movement. The hard left know that Corbyn must cling on until the McDonnell Amendment – which would reduce the benchmark of support within the PLP for a candidate to stand for the leadership – passes. But given the difficulties the Corbyn camp have had in passing it, a crushing defeat, combined with the resignations of centrist MPs, could actually consolidate power for a movement that is led by Corbyn, but not exclusively bound to him. If a hard left candidate stands in a post-landslide leadership contest, they will all but certainly win, and the Labour party’s regeneration will fall at the first hurdle.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/04/e ... y-corbyn/#

[Myrensis]

Has anybody considered hiring a PI or something to make sure Corbyn and May aren't actually secretly lovers? Of if Corbyn is in fact some sort of robot the Tories built to destroy Labour from within?

[Bressen]

Absolutely has to be Conservatives, despite their flaws. Not only is the ''Corbyn is unelectable'' meme true since he's proven time and time again he lacks party leadership skills, but I can't imagine how he'd hold up during the Brexit negotiations. His campaign thus-far has heavily revolved around the classic ''Conservative austerity'' line, as well as the typical ''we're going to give you free stuff'', as opposed to the real and pressing issue of exiting the European Union.

Not to mention that putting Corbyn in power could very easily jeopardise our relationship with America, since he had a very vocal opposition against Trump being offered a state visit after he was elected. Oh, and his socialist policies would only add to our national debt and simultaneously increase taxes. No thanks, my dudes.

[Central European Commonwealth]

On another note...

I have no respect for the belief that you should vote SNP to 'stop Brexit'. Scotland leaving the UK would be more destructive to the four nations than the UK leaving the EU. Vote whatever unionist party (ideally Labour) that can win to deny them the legitimacy to call a second referendum.

Indeed, an independent Scottish state couldn't survive on it's own

It not only could, but probably would - quite well, actually. The only reason why they keep on telling an independent Scotland could not survive on its own is because the Tories wish to prove their rotten ideology and are willing to cause death and destruction to do so, just like the rest of the alt-right who have no solutions to offer, just some idealized version of a past which only exists in their own minds. The UK under the Tories will become a - for first world standards - de facto failed state, with massive underemployment, poverty and nearly all wealth concentrated in the top 1%. If Scotland turns out to become a successful Nordic country in the meanwhile, the Tory ideology will be dead even to the most brain-dead people.

An independent Scottish state will survive on its own just right. Just like an independent Norwegian state or an independent Danish state survives on its own. And with the European funding available to Scotland, as well as an influx of highly-skilled migratory workers from south of the border - expect Scotland to grow to 8 or even 10 million people in the next few decades post independence with a nasty Tory regime running England and Wales.

[Frank Zipper]

... Not to mention that putting Corbyn in power could very easily jeopardise our relationship with America, since he had a very vocal opposition against Trump being offered a state visit after he was elected ...

I don't think Corbyn has said anything worse than Boris Johnson about Trump.

[Vassenor]

Absolutely has to be Conservatives, despite their flaws. Not only is the ''Corbyn is unelectable'' meme true since he's proven time and time again he lacks party leadership skills, but I can't imagine how he'd hold up during the Brexit negotiations. His campaign thus-far has heavily revolved around the classic ''Conservative austerity'' line, as well as the typical ''we're going to give you free stuff'', as opposed to the real and pressing issue of exiting the European Union.

Not to mention that putting Corbyn in power could very easily jeopardise our relationship with America, since he had a very vocal opposition against Trump being offered a state visit after he was elected. Oh, and his socialist policies would only add to our national debt and simultaneously increase taxes. No thanks, my dudes.

So how exactly has Brexit made every single other issue facing the country stop existing?

And how would they increase the national debt?

[Sanctissima]

Absolutely has to be Conservatives, despite their flaws. Not only is the ''Corbyn is unelectable'' meme true since he's proven time and time again he lacks party leadership skills, but I can't imagine how he'd hold up during the Brexit negotiations. His campaign thus-far has heavily revolved around the classic ''Conservative austerity'' line, as well as the typical ''we're going to give you free stuff'', as opposed to the real and pressing issue of exiting the European Union.

Not to mention that putting Corbyn in power could very easily jeopardise our relationship with America, since he had a very vocal opposition against Trump being offered a state visit after he was elected. Oh, and his socialist policies would only add to our national debt and simultaneously increase taxes. No thanks, my dudes.

So how exactly has Brexit made every single other issue facing the country stop existing?

And how would they increase the national debt?

I don't know how anyone could possibly think that Corbyn would make a good leader at any conceivable level. He is beyond incompetent at everything.

Even with the impending Brexit negotiations aside, Corbyn would not be a good prime minister for other issues. You need only take a cursory glance at some of his proposed policies and political views to come to the conclusion that he'd be complete shit as PM.

[Bressen]

... Not to mention that putting Corbyn in power could very easily jeopardise our relationship with America, since he had a very vocal opposition against Trump being offered a state visit after he was elected ...

I don't think Corbyn has said anything worse than Boris Johnson about Trump.

I wasn't aware Boris Johnson was running for the position of Prime Minister of the United Kingdom.

Absolutely has to be Conservatives, despite their flaws. Not only is the ''Corbyn is unelectable'' meme true since he's proven time and time again he lacks party leadership skills, but I can't imagine how he'd hold up during the Brexit negotiations. His campaign thus-far has heavily revolved around the classic ''Conservative austerity'' line, as well as the typical ''we're going to give you free stuff'', as opposed to the real and pressing issue of exiting the European Union.

Not to mention that putting Corbyn in power could very easily jeopardise our relationship with America, since he had a very vocal opposition against Trump being offered a state visit after he was elected. Oh, and his socialist policies would only add to our national debt and simultaneously increase taxes. No thanks, my dudes.

So how exactly has Brexit made every single other issue facing the country stop existing?

And how would they increase the national debt?

It hasn't, Brexit is just the most pressing issue we're facing. I would have much rather May didn't call a snap election so we could deal with Brexit and then move on to voting for parties based on UK-internal issues, but since she has I'd prefer that we don't opt for instability and weak leadership in the form of Corbyn and instead opt for stability and strong leadership from May.

Socialist policies will increase the national debt unless taxes are raised, and generally speaking no one wants to raise taxes - that was even in the Conservative manifesto, and they won the election.

[Vassenor]

I don't think Corbyn has said anything worse than Boris Johnson about Trump.

I wasn't aware Boris Johnson was running for the position of Prime Minister of the United Kingdom.

So how exactly has Brexit made every single other issue facing the country stop existing?

And how would they increase the national debt?

It hasn't, Brexit is just the most pressing issue we're facing. I would have much rather May didn't call a snap election so we could deal with Brexit and then move on to voting for parties based on UK-internal issues, but since she has I'd prefer that we don't opt for instability and weak leadership in the form of Corbyn and instead opt for stability and strong leadership from May.

Socialist policies will increase the national debt unless taxes are raised, and generally speaking no one wants to raise taxes - that was even in the Conservative manifesto, and they won the election.

And the Conservatives have already said they're going to cut pensions and raise taxes. I don't see that being popular.

[Bressen]

I wasn't aware Boris Johnson was running for the position of Prime Minister of the United Kingdom.



It hasn't, Brexit is just the most pressing issue we're facing. I would have much rather May didn't call a snap election so we could deal with Brexit and then move on to voting for parties based on UK-internal issues, but since she has I'd prefer that we don't opt for instability and weak leadership in the form of Corbyn and instead opt for stability and strong leadership from May.

Socialist policies will increase the national debt unless taxes are raised, and generally speaking no one wants to raise taxes - that was even in the Conservative manifesto, and they won the election.

And the Conservatives have already said they're going to cut pensions and raise taxes. I don't see that being popular.

It's not, but Conservatives raising taxes and Labour raising taxes are two massively different increments in tax (especially income tax). Conservatives generally don't like government spending, and thus any raises to income tax will be relatively small in order to pay for what's necessary. Labour, however, advocate for huge government spending across the board and thus any raises to taxes will be huge in order to pay for nationalised systems and socialist policies.

Unfortunately, there's no mainstream party advocating for no tax raises at all, but we're dealing with minor tax increases (though, sadly put into effect through a manifesto that said no tax increases) or major tax increases. Generally, people prefer to keep their money in their own pockets, but when faced with this choice they'll likely opt for the minor tax increases.

[Frank Zipper]

I don't think Corbyn has said anything worse than Boris Johnson about Trump.

I wasn't aware Boris Johnson was running for the position of Prime Minister of the United Kingdom.

So insults from the Foreign Secretary can't jeopardise our relationship with America?

[Bressen]

I wasn't aware Boris Johnson was running for the position of Prime Minister of the United Kingdom.

So insults from the Foreign Secretary can't jeopardise our relationship with America?

They can, but the Foreign Secretary is appointed and not elected, so there's not much we can do about what they say. The Prime Minister, however, is elected, so it'd probably be in our best interests to vote in someone who wouldn't jeopardise our relationship with one of our closest allies.

[Angleter]

Jesus the tax thing was a terrible campaign starter, like could you start campaign with a worse comment?

Better to start with it than end with it.

[Frank Zipper]

So insults from the Foreign Secretary can't jeopardise our relationship with America?

They can, but the Foreign Secretary is appointed and not elected, so there's not much we can do about what they say. The Prime Minister, however, is elected, so it'd probably be in our best interests to vote in someone who wouldn't jeopardise our relationship with one of our closest allies.

Perhaps people should not vote for Boris's party just to be safe.

[Bressen]

They can, but the Foreign Secretary is appointed and not elected, so there's not much we can do about what they say. The Prime Minister, however, is elected, so it'd probably be in our best interests to vote in someone who wouldn't jeopardise our relationship with one of our closest allies.

Perhaps people should not vote for Boris's party just to be safe.

I'd rather have a Prime Minister who doesn't jeopardise our relationships with America and a Foreign Secretary who does, than a Prime Minister who does and a Foreign Secretary who doesn't (even though Labour's Foreign Secretary probably would anyway).

[Central European Commonwealth]

It's not, but Conservatives raising taxes and Labour raising taxes are two massively different increments in tax (especially income tax). Conservatives generally don't like government spending, and thus any raises to income tax will be relatively small in order to pay for what's necessary.

What they find necessary. Trident, corporate welfare to keep their sponsors happy, and prisons to deal with the underclass their policies creates.

Labour, however, advocate for huge government spending across the board and thus any raises to taxes will be huge in order to pay for nationalised systems and socialist policies.

It works in Scandinavia, I don't see why it wouldn't work in Britain. The only reasons why people are against a Nordic-style mixed economy are ideological reasons with absolutely ZERO rooting in reason whatsoever.

[Major-Tom]

Has anybody considered hiring a PI or something to make sure Corbyn and May aren't actually secretly lovers? Of if Corbyn is in fact some sort of robot the Tories built to destroy Labour from within?

Wouldn't surprise me.

He has had numerous chances to fucking pounce on the Tories but has not taken these chances at all.

[Vassenor]

Perhaps people should not vote for Boris's party just to be safe.

I'd rather have a Prime Minister who doesn't jeopardise our relationships with America and a Foreign Secretary who does, than a Prime Minister who does and a Foreign Secretary who doesn't (even though Labour's Foreign Secretary probably would anyway).

Remember, we should be deciding our government based purely on their willingness to prostitute the country to America.

[Bressen]

It's not, but Conservatives raising taxes and Labour raising taxes are two massively different increments in tax (especially income tax). Conservatives generally don't like government spending, and thus any raises to income tax will be relatively small in order to pay for what's necessary.

What they find necessary. Trident, corporate welfare to keep their sponsors happy, and prisons to deal with the underclass their policies creates.

Labour, however, advocate for huge government spending across the board and thus any raises to taxes will be huge in order to pay for nationalised systems and socialist policies.

It works in Scandinavia, I don't see why it wouldn't work in Britain. The only reasons why people are against a Nordic-style mixed economy are ideological reasons with absolutely ZERO rooting in reason whatsoever.

I'm not an expert on Trident, but I'd rather have our nuclear defense/deterrence systems operating than not operating.

What Labour advocates for is nothing like the Nordic model that the Scandinavian countries use - they want a £10 an hour minimum wage, for example. If it was, we might see more support for Labour, but the Nordic model is only really suitable (yet, not sustainable) in the Scandinavian countries thanks to their resource rich geography.

[Bressen]

I'd rather have a Prime Minister who doesn't jeopardise our relationships with America and a Foreign Secretary who does, than a Prime Minister who does and a Foreign Secretary who doesn't (even though Labour's Foreign Secretary probably would anyway).

Remember, we should be deciding our government based purely on their willingness to prostitute the country to America.

No, but we should take foreign relations into account.

Stop being dishonest. I was discussing a very specific aspect of government policy.

[Central European Commonwealth]

What they find necessary. Trident, corporate welfare to keep their sponsors happy, and prisons to deal with the underclass their policies creates.



It works in Scandinavia, I don't see why it wouldn't work in Britain. The only reasons why people are against a Nordic-style mixed economy are ideological reasons with absolutely ZERO rooting in reason whatsoever.

I'm not an expert on Trident, but I'd rather have our nuclear defense/deterrence systems operating than not operating.

Fair enough. Might as well keep those subs in the Thames estuary then instead of the Clyde.

What Labour advocates for is nothing like the Nordic model that the Scandinavian countries use - they want a £10 an hour minimum wage, for example. If it was, we might see more support for Labour.

I don't think that Labour at this point knows what they want themselves. They should learn from the SNP in regards to policy making. Instead they prefer to fight them.

[Bressen]

What Labour advocates for is nothing like the Nordic model that the Scandinavian countries use - they want a £10 an hour minimum wage, for example. If it was, we might see more support for Labour.

I don't think that Labour at this point knows what they want themselves. They should learn from the SNP in regards to policy making. Instead they prefer to fight them.

Labour generally want a socialist economy and advocate for increased welfare, but they rarely offer any methods of generating the wealth necessary to sustain these systems. They do half of the political legwork by saying ''we want to give you better education and better healthcare'' but never move onto the ''and we're going to do this by'' in their campaigns. It's good for getting into office, but once you're in office the people tend to react quite badly when you have to start raising income tax to pay for your promises.

As for SNP policy making, I don't know anything about it. All I know is that SNP advocate for the Scottish, and that's just about all they need to do in the United Kingdom. Labour has mentioned they're willing to work with SNP in a coalition instead of fighting them, however, but we'll see.

[Dooom35796821595]

Jesus the tax thing was a terrible campaign starter, like could you start campaign with a worse comment?

We're going to cut pensions, sell the NHS & BBC, raise VAT and income tax, cut coperation tax and kill the poor. And we're still going to get more seats then Labour under Corbin. We can't lose!

[Anywhere Else But Here]

I don't think Corbyn has said anything worse than Boris Johnson about Trump.

I wasn't aware Boris Johnson was running for the position of Prime Minister of the United Kingdom.

Boris Johnson is always trying to become PM.