[UK] General Election 2017 Superthread

[Dumb Ideologies]

Conservatives lead over Labour cut by seven points ahead of general election, latest poll shows

It's probably just polling noise or something. I mean that's what is generally cited whenever a poll breaks from the narrative.

Seven points is not commonly regarded as being with the range of "noise", no. Generally, once you get beyond a two or three percent swing something's happened. Sincerely hope it's not a rogue poll due to dodgy methodology, sampling or suchlike.

[Olerand]

What is Britain's pension system that is supposed to be on the verge of being privatized? How does it work?

[Ifreann]

Has Boris used mugwump correctly - or did he just like the sound of it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mugwumps

"Mugwumps were right wing similar in view to the British Tory party."

"Mugwumps tended to come from old Protestant families of New York and New England, and often from inherited wealth. They belonged to or identified with the emerging business and professional elite, and were often members of the most exclusive clubs."

Dictionaries report that "mugguomp" is an Algonquian word meaning "person of importance" or "war leader."

But is he the Supreme Mugwump? I'm worried that Boris has got confused between Corbyn and Dumbledore and between UK politics and the politics of the Harry Potter books - is his already tenuous grip on reality beginning to terminally fracture?

Minister for Magic Boris Johnson denounces Headmaster of Labwarts, Jerbus Corbyledore. Headmaster Corbyledore was unavailable for comment, being otherwise occupied on his allotment.

[Questers]

What is Britain's pension system that is supposed to be on the verge of being privatized? How does it work?

It's not on the verge of being privatised, but because of demographics it is under pressure.

People in Britain throughout their life pay national insurance, which is basically a payroll tax. It's not actually money that's kept and saved (although there are government providential funds, I think, which assist with the payments). Pensions are issued via general government expenditure at a set rate dependent on various factors such as level of contribution, but the number of people who are on state pensions keeps rising as the population blooms to a T-shape distribution.

IMO this is a bad system and it should be replaced with an M/EPF system.

[Olerand]

What is Britain's pension system that is supposed to be on the verge of being privatized? How does it work?

It's not on the verge of being privatised, but because of demographics it is under pressure.

People in Britain throughout their life pay national insurance, which is basically a payroll tax. It's not actually money that's kept and saved (although there are government providential funds, I think, which assist with the payments). Pensions are issued via general government expenditure at a set rate dependent on various factors such as level of contribution, but the number of people who are on state pensions keeps rising as the population blooms to a T-shape distribution.

IMO this is a bad system and it should be replaced with an M/EPF system.

So, the pension system is financed directly out of the general State budget? How large is the UK's budget?

[Questers]

It's not on the verge of being privatised, but because of demographics it is under pressure.

People in Britain throughout their life pay national insurance, which is basically a payroll tax. It's not actually money that's kept and saved (although there are government providential funds, I think, which assist with the payments). Pensions are issued via general government expenditure at a set rate dependent on various factors such as level of contribution, but the number of people who are on state pensions keeps rising as the population blooms to a T-shape distribution.

IMO this is a bad system and it should be replaced with an M/EPF system.

So, the pension system is financed directly out of the general State budget? How large is the UK's budget?

£108 billion last year. In fact, I think pensions is the #1 expenditure piece (trailed by debt interest and the NHS). Approx 5.5% of GDP.

[Olerand]

So, the pension system is financed directly out of the general State budget? How large is the UK's budget?

£108 billion last year. In fact, I think pensions is the #1 expenditure piece (trailed by debt interest and the NHS). Approx 5.5% of GDP.

... Are you sure? That's it? France's budget (EDIT2:) expenses (not including Social Security's budget) was almost €382 billion... And... Private pension schemes are popular in the UK no? No way pensions make up 5,5% of GDP?

EDIT: I'm actually shocked by these numbers

[Questers]

£108 billion last year. In fact, I think pensions is the #1 expenditure piece (trailed by debt interest and the NHS). Approx 5.5% of GDP.

... Are you sure? That's it? France's budget (EDIT2:) expenses (not including Social Security's budget) was almost €382 billion... And... Private pension schemes are popular in the UK no? No way pensions make up 5,5% of GDP?

EDIT: I'm actually shocked by these numbers

The state pension is 5.5% of GDP, yes.

UK GDP 2014/2015 was £1850 billion, pensions were £108 billion. To be exact it is 5.83% of GDP (2014/2015) I will look for some updated figures for you. In total, welfare spending is a touch under £300 billion (from memory), which is about 16% of GDP.

[Olerand]

... Are you sure? That's it? France's budget (EDIT2:) expenses (not including Social Security's budget) was almost €382 billion... And... Private pension schemes are popular in the UK no? No way pensions make up 5,5% of GDP?

EDIT: I'm actually shocked by these numbers

The state pension is 5.5% of GDP, yes.

UK GDP 2014/2015 was £1850 billion, pensions were £108 billion. To be exact it is 5.83% of GDP (2014/2015) I will look for some updated figures for you. In total, welfare spending is a touch under £300 billion (from memory), which is about 16% of GDP.

Oh that's just pensions OK, I thought that was the State's budget. Welfare being defined in the American understanding? As in social spending? Also, are private pensions popular, because pensions in France made up about 13% of GDP in 2007, but almost all pension schemes in France are publicly managed. Are private pensions popular in the UK? No way all retirement spending is just 6%.

[Questers]

The state pension is 5.5% of GDP, yes.

UK GDP 2014/2015 was £1850 billion, pensions were £108 billion. To be exact it is 5.83% of GDP (2014/2015) I will look for some updated figures for you. In total, welfare spending is a touch under £300 billion (from memory), which is about 16% of GDP.

Oh that's just pensions OK, I thought that was the State's budget. Welfare being defined in the American understanding? As in social spending? Also, are private pensions popular, because pensions in France made up about 13% of GDP in 2007, but almost all pension schemes in France are publicly managed. Are private pensions popular in the UK? No way all retirement spending is just 6%.

I can't tell you if they're popular. If we researched it at the same time we'd likely get the answer at the same time.

The UK budget in 2016/17 was £772 billion, which is smaller by the margins than France's as a proportion of GDP, but not significantly. Total social protection spending was £240 billion.

Also I was wrong about debt interest, it has fallen a lot.

[Vassenor]

Boris Johnson's sister joins Lib Dems in bid to block Brexit

Oh dear.

[Bressen]

Boris Johnson's sister joins Lib Dems in bid to block Brexit

Oh dear.

It's a good job she joined the LibDems, otherwise this might of had a tangible impact on the upcoming election.

[Vassenor]

Boris Johnson's sister joins Lib Dems in bid to block Brexit

Oh dear.

It's a good job she joined the LibDems, otherwise this might of had a tangible impact on the upcoming election.

Why does everyone assume the party will make no difference?

[Bressen]

It's a good job she joined the LibDems, otherwise this might of had a tangible impact on the upcoming election.

Why does everyone assume the party will make no difference?

Because it won't. They'll increase their member-base for sure, but they're not going to gain enough traction to make any significant difference to parliament as a result of the general election. They're still far too much of a fringe party and we've always, traditionally, had a two-party system of political discourse despite the fact the smaller parties still get their say, it's only that their say is often shrouded by what the Opposition and Government have to say because they're the only two groups that the majority of the British electorate care about.

[Olerand]

Oh that's just pensions OK, I thought that was the State's budget. Welfare being defined in the American understanding? As in social spending? Also, are private pensions popular, because pensions in France made up about 13% of GDP in 2007, but almost all pension schemes in France are publicly managed. Are private pensions popular in the UK? No way all retirement spending is just 6%.

I can't tell you if they're popular. If we researched it at the same time we'd likely get the answer at the same time.

The UK budget in 2016/17 was £772 billion, which is smaller by the margins than France's as a proportion of GDP, but not significantly. Total social protection spending was £240 billion.

I researched the totality of pension spending (public+private) in the UK and I couldn't find anything. The most authoritative source, the OECD, gives the number you gave, but that's for public pensions.

Your budget is roughly similar to ours if we include the two spending bills that France goes through, for the State and Social Security. But... That number for social protection is... Interesting. Social Security alone in France spends about 470 to 480 billion Euros.

Britain seems to have... A very interesting system. We spend too much no doubt but the difference is interesting I guess.

[Questers]

I can't tell you if they're popular. If we researched it at the same time we'd likely get the answer at the same time.

The UK budget in 2016/17 was £772 billion, which is smaller by the margins than France's as a proportion of GDP, but not significantly. Total social protection spending was £240 billion.

I researched the totality of pension spending (public+private) in the UK and I couldn't find anything. The most authoritative source, the OECD, gives the number you gave, but that's for public pensions.

Your budget is roughly similar to ours if we include the two spending bills that France goes through, for the State and Social Security. But... That number for social protection is... Interesting. Social Security alone in France spends about 470 to 480 billion Euros.

Britain seems to have... A very interesting system. We spend too much no doubt but the difference is interesting I guess.

WHat we offer people is far less generous.

A married couple, one of whom is disabled and the other who is on a low-ish income but working, and they have children - let's say two or three - gets quite a bit in state benefits. This is the "optimal" generosity level, but even two people on low incomes who are working get a fairly generous amount. That's about it really.

[Salandriagado]

What is Britain's pension system that is supposed to be on the verge of being privatized? How does it work?

It's not on the verge of being privatised, but because of demographics it is under pressure.

People in Britain throughout their life pay national insurance, which is basically a payroll tax. It's not actually money that's kept and saved (although there are government providential funds, I think, which assist with the payments). Pensions are issued via general government expenditure at a set rate dependent on various factors such as level of contribution, but the number of people who are on state pensions keeps rising as the population blooms to a T-shape distribution.

IMO this is a bad system and it should be replaced with an M/EPF system.

My google-fu is failing to produce anything but engineering stuff from "M/EPF system" or variations like that, so you're going to have to explain it a little more, I'm afraid.

[Olerand]

I researched the totality of pension spending (public+private) in the UK and I couldn't find anything. The most authoritative source, the OECD, gives the number you gave, but that's for public pensions.

Your budget is roughly similar to ours if we include the two spending bills that France goes through, for the State and Social Security. But... That number for social protection is... Interesting. Social Security alone in France spends about 470 to 480 billion Euros.

Britain seems to have... A very interesting system. We spend too much no doubt but the difference is interesting I guess.

WHat we offer people is far less generous.

A married couple, one of whom is disabled and the other who is on a low-ish income but working, and they have children - let's say two or three - gets quite a bit in state benefits. This is the "optimal" generosity level, but even two people on low incomes who are working get a fairly generous amount. That's about it really.

There are no child subsidies, or supplemental incomes, or Christmas/school funds, or whatever in the UK then I'm presuming.

Is social spending still the leading cause for the UK's budget deficit, would you say? Obviously you can't determine what part of the budget "causes" the deficit, but does the UK blame it on social spending?

[Questers]

There are child subsidies yes. They're not huge though.

The biggest cause of Britain's deficit is low taxes. Im sure most of the people think it's welfare though.

[Bressen]

The biggest cause of Britain's deficit is low taxes.

Surely that's just another way of saying the biggest cause of Britain's deficit is high spending.

[Calladan]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-campaign-leave-european-convention-on-human-rights-2020-general-election-brexit-a7499951.html

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... -committee

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... alth-chief

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01 ... ect-worse/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 49686.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 06236.html

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/ ... -academics

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/th ... ry-9147701

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/th ... re-8768389

http://www.welfareweekly.com/theresa-ma ... -families/

But then again - https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/so ... are-budget (and the lifetime of this Parliament is now 40 something days.....)

I admit I can't find anything on the BBC, but that's because searching for "May" and "BBC" just turns up stories on the BBC about Maggie May

None of those say she supports privatising healthcare (what do you mean by this - risk-based insurance premiums?) or scrapping the welfare state.

(Not that I am a criminal mastermind, but this is how I would do it).

Step 1 - you start a campaign against immigrants and foreigners and anyone else you can get Middle England to hate and use that to slash massive parts of the welfare budget.

Step 2 - you cut nearly every benefit everyone else gets so that only a tiny fraction of those who need help can legitimately qualify for it.

Step 3 - you move the rest of that into the NHS budget because it is now more healthcare than welfare.

Step 4 - you cut NHS budgets, staff and everything else until the crisis is SO HUGE that people will accept that they might need to pay for "one or two" services to "help out" in the short term. This is helped by the fact the NHS budget now covers a large part of what was the welfare state.

Step 5 - people adapt to paying for the NHS at point of service, so you start introducing more pay to play features, such as GP visits for adults in full time employment, elective surgeries and so forth. Nothing emergency related or life saving just yet.

Step 6 - after a few years of this, people realise they need to save up, so insurance companies spring up all over the place because they realise they can make a good business off pain and suffering, and once that happens we are truly fucked.

Step 7 - the last nail in the coffin (both metaphorically and literally) is struck as the insurance companies become so powerful they lobby the government to make all healthcare pay to play and we become like America. The poor get crappy policies they can't afford, the rich inherit the earth and Margaret Thatcher smiles up at us from Satan's right hand.

Just saying.

(I realise this is a worst case scenario, but the destruction of the NHS has been Tory policy ever since I was a child, and I don't see it being reversed now).

[Dumb Ideologies]

The biggest cause of Britain's deficit is low taxes.

Surely that's just another way of saying the biggest cause of Britain's deficit is high spending.

Ultimately the biggest cause is the existence of the concepts of money and trade. If we returned our economy to its natural state of primitive cave-based tribal communism the deficit would become far less of a problem.

[Bressen]

Surely that's just another way of saying the biggest cause of Britain's deficit is high spending.

Ultimately the biggest cause is the existence of the concepts of money and trade. If we returned our economy to its natural state of primitive cave-based tribal communism the deficit would become far less of a problem.

I don't think we have enough caves.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Ultimately the biggest cause is the existence of the concepts of money and trade. If we returned our economy to its natural state of primitive cave-based tribal communism the deficit would become far less of a problem.

I don't think we have enough caves.

The housing crisis can be resolved by reducing net migration to the tens of thousands tens and getting the government to spend the last of its money building giant underground reverse tower blocks into the rocks.

[Fartsniffage]

Ultimately the biggest cause is the existence of the concepts of money and trade. If we returned our economy to its natural state of primitive cave-based tribal communism the deficit would become far less of a problem.

I don't think we have enough caves.

But we do have a lot of bombs.