Last Opportunity to support Free Syria?

[Tokora]

As of now, Syria is the news media version of watching a car crash, it's too terrible to watch yet you can't stop.

On one side, we have a dictator supporting the interests of the bourgeois elite while torturing and gassing dissidents and their loved ones. On the other, we have the rebels that have been hijacked by fundamentalists with some members trying to join ISIS with their extermination of religious and ethnic minorities.

At this point the only solution I can think of is a mercy killing of the state. I remember however that there was a time before the rebels became so divided, but I don't recall the exact date.

Does anybody remember what year was Obama's last chance to support the rebels back when they had the proper strength and supported cultural diversity in their ranks? It's possible that they might've always been fundamentalists but I could've sworn they used to be different at one point so I'm asking anyway.

[Arcanda]

Possible pre-2013, at the very beginning of the conflict.
But who knew it could spiral into such a mess? Could have been a revolution like in Tunisia or Egypt. The only place worse than Syria right now is possibly Libya, but since they have such a small population, we don't hear about them.

[Maichuko]

Maybe at the beginning of the civil war or at the latest, pre Russian intervention.

[Socialist Tera]

Most people do not support the rebels. https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles ... rians-want I don't get why the west gets to dictate what system of government third world countries have.

[East Catalina]

Most people do not support the rebels. https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles ... rians-want I don't get why the west gets to dictate what system of government third world countries have.

We get to dictate it for no particular reason. We simply have the power to attempt to do so.

[Socialist Tera]

Most people do not support the rebels. https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles ... rians-want I don't get why the west gets to dictate what system of government third world countries have.

We get to dictate it for no particular reason. We simply have the power to attempt to do so.

You still wonder why I think that America's system of world policing and imperialism is arbitrary. It's inane. America should probably worry more about their own citizen than bombing and ruining lives in Syria because some Dictator was a bit mean.

[East Catalina]

We get to dictate it for no particular reason. We simply have the power to attempt to do so.

You still wonder why I think that America's system of world policing and imperialism is arbitrary. It's inane. America should probably worry more about their own citizen than bombing and ruining lives in Syria because some Dictator was a bit mean.

...It is arbitrary. I know that and am perfectly comfortable with it. And we have more than Bashar's skull to bash in with Hellfires in Syria, like the Islamonutbags in Raqqa who've spread the ideology of lonewolfism onto the internet to strike us with madmen shooters and insane truck drivers. Even if we didn't, we have a President who is motivated by the emotional and an obligation to not only defend the discouraging of chemical weapons use but preserve the international system that has (appeared to) provide us so much benefit. Generally Presidents do that, even if they do it in different ways and sometimes while garnering massive hatred for either themselves or the country. Some have tried withdrawal in the years since World War II but inevitably the system has endured.
Could we Americans do with some more government attention lavished on us? I'm sure that someone agrees with that premise. The only problem is that there is a paradoxical ethos in power, as ever which wants it all to come at the low, low price of nothing.

[Tokora]

Most people do not support the rebels. https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles ... rians-want I don't get why the west gets to dictate what system of government third world countries have.

I don't care who wins long as no ones being gassed or committing genocide.

[Ryock]

We get to dictate it for no particular reason. We simply have the power to attempt to do so.

You still wonder why I think that America's system of world policing and imperialism is arbitrary. It's inane. America should probably worry more about their own citizen than bombing and ruining lives in Syria because some Dictator was a bit mean.

The US seems to have an obsession with exporting its western ideas on countries that don't want them. It doesn't matter how much peace or security a dictator provides, the US will plunge a country into instability and chaos all in the name of "freedom" and "democracy".

[San Marlindo]

As of now, Syria is the news media version of watching a car crash, it's too terrible to watch yet you can't stop.

I can't stand people who talk like this.

"OMG [X Topic] is so horrific I can barely stomach it"

"Then don't follow [X Topic]."

"I can't not follow [X Topic], it's so horrific you can't help but watch"

Fuck off. Don't bitch about it like it genuinely horrifies you, you are clearly fascinated with it if you continue to follow the coverage daily. Nobody's stopping you from not giving a fuck and switching your radio/television to Katy Perry's new hit single every time some irrelevant shit about Syria comes on.

On one side, we have a dictator supporting the interests of the bourgeois elite while torturing and gassing dissidents and their loved ones.

The fuck is this? An NSGer just got done telling me the other day "bourgeois" means "anybody who's not poor working class", not "rich well connected elite".

I give up. Marxist buzzwords are just too confusing for me.

On the other, we have the rebels that have been hijacked by fundamentalists with some members trying to join ISIS with their extermination of religious and ethnic minorities.

That is a gross oversimplification of the opposition umbrella. It reads like what somebody might say who watches CNN reporting on Syria for a few minutes a day and read one or two vaguely relevant blog posts on the Internet.

At this point the only solution I can think of is a mercy killing of the state. I remember however that there was a time before the rebels became so divided, but I don't recall the exact date.

Does anybody remember what year was Obama's last chance to support the rebels back when they had the proper strength and supported cultural diversity in their ranks? It's possible that they might've always been fundamentalists but I could've sworn they used to be different at one point so I'm asking anyway.

If that had happened Syria would look like Libya a lot more now.

Like the NTC, the FSA has always been a loose and incredibly fragile organisation. Once they'd ousted Assad, the utter proliferation of weapons + the lack of a common enemy would've led to greater factionalism and a second civil war.

[Neo Balka]

There is no "Free Syria".

[North Berzerkistan]

As of now, Syria is the news media version of watching a car crash, it's too terrible to watch yet you can't stop.

On one side, we have a dictator supporting the interests of the bourgeois elite while torturing and gassing dissidents and their loved ones. On the other, we have the rebels that have been hijacked by fundamentalists with some members trying to join ISIS with their extermination of religious and ethnic minorities.

At this point the only solution I can think of is a mercy killing of the state. I remember however that there was a time before the rebels became so divided, but I don't recall the exact date.

Does anybody remember what year was Obama's last chance to support the rebels back when they had the proper strength and supported cultural diversity in their ranks? It's possible that they might've always been fundamentalists but I could've sworn they used to be different at one point so I'm asking anyway.

Well we could have started by not funnelling guns and money to ISIS through proxies like Saudi and the UAE. We could have done what the original protesters begged us to do and stayed out of the political dimension of it and simply pushed targeted sanctions against senior members and supporters of the Assad regime.

But the west had had too much money tied up in the power networks, and it was less trouble (and potentially more photo ops) to pour oil on the fire and through some dynamite after.

[Raef Tige]

Though the argument between supporting the SAA or FSA is definitely a complicated issue, there's often a third factor left out of the conversation as to who has legitimacy in the region - the Kurds. I've gradually moved to the mindset that supporting Rojava might be the best bet of restoring secular and stable governments in the area, especially if we want to ensure we're not supporting any potential Al Queda affiliates. If we in the West really wanted to put our money where our mouth is, we need to actively support these guys. Not only would we be taking a stand for secular, free societies in Syria, but we'd be pushing back against the increasingly autocratic government in Turkey as well by legitimizing this oft-marginalized group. Of course, I wouldn't exactly call myself an expert on the Syrian crisis, but this is where my personal perspective lies.

[Shofercia]

As of now, Syria is the news media version of watching a car crash, it's too terrible to watch yet you can't stop.

On one side, we have a dictator supporting the interests of the bourgeois elite while torturing and gassing dissidents and their loved ones. On the other, we have the rebels that have been hijacked by fundamentalists with some members trying to join ISIS with their extermination of religious and ethnic minorities.

At this point the only solution I can think of is a mercy killing of the state. I remember however that there was a time before the rebels became so divided, but I don't recall the exact date.

Does anybody remember what year was Obama's last chance to support the rebels back when they had the proper strength and supported cultural diversity in their ranks? It's possible that they might've always been fundamentalists but I could've sworn they used to be different at one point so I'm asking anyway.

Is it absolutely mandatory to blame Obama for everything? Is there some kind of competition going on that I'm not aware of?

[Risottia]

I remember however that there was a time before the rebels became so divided, but I don't recall the exact date.

The last chance was 1960.

[Risottia]

Is it absolutely mandatory to blame Obama for everything? Is there some kind of competition going on that I'm not aware of?

Yes. America was pissed that Putin and the EU took the lead in the Most Commonly Invoked Scapegoat rankings.

[Imperium Centralium]

Does anybody remember what year was Obama's last chance to support the rebels back when they had the proper strength and supported cultural diversity in their ranks? It's possible that they might've always been fundamentalists but I could've sworn they used to be different at one point so I'm asking anyway.

No rebel would be realistically interested in the cause of """democracy""" in the middle east. It's just so they get funds.

[Tokora]

I can't stand people who talk like this.

"OMG [X Topic] is so horrific I can barely stomach it"

"Then don't follow [X Topic]."

"I can't not follow [X Topic], it's so horrific you can't help but watch"

Fuck off. Don't bitch about it like it genuinely horrifies you, you are clearly fascinated with it if you continue to follow the coverage daily. Nobody's stopping you from not giving a fuck and switching your radio/television to Katy Perry's new hit single every time some irrelevant shit about Syria comes on.

While I admit it might've been a little dramatic, it's because the situation is so unbearable that we have to pay attention. Tyranny thrives on people's ignorance. If we just ignore everything that upsets us than we send the message that we don't care what happens outside our country. I haven't been there and I pray I'll never have to but hearing about civilians getting gassed and executed is something that you can't show apathy to and call yourself human. Yes, the fact that I watch and feel powerless to stop it is painful; but I will not plug my ears and pretend that no one is suffering in the first place. If we want to make the world a better place, we have to know what needs to be fixed.

Though the argument between supporting the SAA or FSA is definitely a complicated issue, there's often a third factor left out of the conversation as to who has legitimacy in the region - the Kurds. I've gradually moved to the mindset that supporting Rojava might be the best bet of restoring secular and stable governments in the area, especially if we want to ensure we're not supporting any potential Al Queda affiliates. If we in the West really wanted to put our money where our mouth is, we need to actively support these guys. Not only would we be taking a stand for secular, free societies in Syria, but we'd be pushing back against the increasingly autocratic government in Turkey as well by legitimizing this oft-marginalized group. Of course, I wouldn't exactly call myself an expert on the Syrian crisis, but this is where my personal perspective lies.

I keep forgetting they exist. While it won't fix all of Syria, giving the Kurdish regions autonomy sounds like the perfect solution (unfortunately I doubt Trump would ever realize this and even if we did congress would jump through hoops to preserve our lopsided support for Turkey for reasons that no matter how many times it's explained to me still makes no sense).

Is it absolutely mandatory to blame Obama for everything? Is there some kind of competition going on that I'm not aware of?

I'm not blaming Obama for everything. I was and still am a major supporter and I still think we should keep and improve the Affordable Healthcare Act. The Syrian crisis wasn't caused by him and he had to make a choice to either let civilians suffer or risk repeating Iraq. There were no right answers for him to make. However, I will admit that Syria was a foreign policy failure and that even our favorite politicians we need to scrutinize when we have to. The only way he could've made the right choice was if he had a crystal ball on him.

Does anybody remember what year was Obama's last chance to support the rebels back when they had the proper strength and supported cultural diversity in their ranks? It's possible that they might've always been fundamentalists but I could've sworn they used to be different at one point so I'm asking anyway.

No rebel would be realistically interested in the cause of """democracy""" in the middle east. It's just so they get funds.

I was afraid of that. That wouldn't be a problem for me however if there was at least a side that refrained from genocide and chemical weapons.

[Skardonia]

Fine, overthrow Assad.

But then what?

Put a US Puppet democratic system in place?

Besides, we all know how good the US is at setting up stable governments...

[The Laurentian Federation]

Fine, overthrow Assad.

But then what?

Put a US Puppet democratic system in place?

Besides, we all know how good the US is at setting up stable governments...

And let Assad gas more of his citizens?
OccupySyria

[The Third Greater German Reich]

The people in this thread saying that Assad needs to be overthrown just need to stop posting all together. Okay look what happened the last time a middle eastern dictatorship was overthrown? Exactly we got post Saddam Iraq, the US needs to just stop getting involved in international affairs all together, I don't know who died, made the US the World Police and went to hell but that didn't happen so frankly stop getting involved. You're not making the situation in Syria any better. "B-b-but Muh recent gas attack tho" that was already proven to be the rebels by multiple sources you don't get to use that as a reason. As a matter of fact from a practical perspective the war was already drawing to a close, Isis was in pretty much shambles, Assad was finally getting along to starting peace negotiations, THE WAR WAS ALMOST OVER. Then America got involved and pretty much set things back another year or two so America just needs to go sit in the metaphorical corner and NOT DO ANYTHING.

[Skardonia]

Fine, overthrow Assad.

But then what?

Put a US Puppet democratic system in place?

Besides, we all know how good the US is at setting up stable governments...

And let Assad gas more of his citizens?
OccupySyria

And provoke Russia into war to protect its ally?

Instead of trying to kill Assad, how about just keep supporting the Kurds, maybe make Kurdistan a reality.

[Shofercia]

Is it absolutely mandatory to blame Obama for everything? Is there some kind of competition going on that I'm not aware of?

Yes. America was pissed that Putin and the EU took the lead in the Most Commonly Invoked Scapegoat rankings.

And America must be number one in everything!

[Ashmoria]

Does anybody remember what year was Obama's last chance to support the rebels back when they had the proper strength and supported cultural diversity in their ranks? It's possible that they might've always been fundamentalists but I could've sworn they used to be different at one point so I'm asking anyway.

president Obama asked congress for permission to intervene in Syria. they ignored him

so we didn't intervene in Syria except for the fight against ISIS that was permitted under the anti-alqaeda&friends resolution that took us into Afghanistan.

the problem was that we had no friends in Syria and even the rebels identified by john McCain as the guys to go with had kidnapping and terrorism backgrounds.

president trump has to find a way to get Russia to take out assad. good luck with that eh?

[Shofercia]

Does anybody remember what year was Obama's last chance to support the rebels back when they had the proper strength and supported cultural diversity in their ranks? It's possible that they might've always been fundamentalists but I could've sworn they used to be different at one point so I'm asking anyway.

president Obama asked congress for permission to intervene in Syria. they ignored him

so we didn't intervene in Syria except for the fight against ISIS that was permitted under the anti-alqaeda&friends resolution that took us into Afghanistan.

the problem was that we had no friends in Syria and even the rebels identified by john McCain as the guys to go with had kidnapping and terrorism backgrounds.

president trump has to find a way to get Russia to take out assad. good luck with that eh?

They didn't ignore him. They denied him permission. I don't remember where I saw it, but the House of Representatives eventually said "fuck that" to Syria's Intervention, because the American Public called them about it, repeatedly, and threatened to cancel their political donations.