New Mexico bans "Lunch shaming"

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

Why don't you just have kids use their student ID numbers? They have a "lunch account" and every time they buy a meal, the cost is subtracted, or not for low income kids. The only problem is kids now have to remember a number. But it's not like one of the big kids can push them down and take their lunch money

Student ID numbers sounds helpful.

Um that is how they do it, at least here, so ... at any rate, student id#, and prepaid accounts available online.

[The Portland Territory]

You have to pay for meals at orphanages? That aint right

No you see, we were expected to pay for school lunches, despite the fact our other meals were literally charity

That's fucked up

[The Portland Territory]

Student ID numbers sounds helpful.

Um that is how they do it, at least here, so ... at any rate, student id#, and prepaid accounts available online.

That's what we got as well

[Imperializt Russia]

We don't teach children to read by just leaving books around and counting on literacy to just happen. We get professionals to teach all of them.

You'll still have children who aren't being bullied. We don't let the students choose who learns maths, we shouldn't let them choose who gets bullied. Everyone gets abused, everyone gets beaten, the popular kids, the sports stars, the cheerleaders, the disabled kids, everyone, everyone suffers until everyone is tough and we'll surely have far better society. We only accept not educating children if they cannot learn, so we should only accept not bullying children if they similarly cannot learn from it.

This is starting to sound more like something you might want, and not necessarily something you think Doom wants to encourage. You're speaking about it with enough fervor, after all, you sound really excited about the idea of everyone being bullied in this system. Though I could be wrong.

And furthermore, the idea of "we cannot teach children if they cannot learn" is ridiculous. Every child has an ability to learn. It's the teacher's fault if the child is not learning, they need to know how to look for the different learning-styles of children. So even more than misrepresenting your opponent's argument, now you're talking about a topic you obviously don't understand. Even as I disagree with some of Doom's methods of tackling bullying, I at least am paying attention to what he is saying, rather than spouting nonsense.

He's trying to argue against Doom by presenting the extreme logical conclusion of his thought process to exploit its flaws, in simple reasoning or in this case, ethics and morals.

[Doom Legions]

This is starting to sound more like something you might want, and not necessarily something you think Doom wants to encourage. You're speaking about it with enough fervor, after all, you sound really excited about the idea of everyone being bullied in this system. Though I could be wrong.

And furthermore, the idea of "we cannot teach children if they cannot learn" is ridiculous. Every child has an ability to learn. It's the teacher's fault if the child is not learning, they need to know how to look for the different learning-styles of children. So even more than misrepresenting your opponent's argument, now you're talking about a topic you obviously don't understand. Even as I disagree with some of Doom's methods of tackling bullying, I at least am paying attention to what he is saying, rather than spouting nonsense.

He's trying to argue against Doom by presenting the extreme logical conclusion of his thought process to exploit its flaws, in simple reasoning or in this case, ethics and morals.

Really what I'm just trying to say is that children need to learn to stand up for themselves, what Ifreann is suggesting doesn't need to be such a bad idea if executed properly.
When I joined high school my mom signed me up for an assertiveness course that was supposed to teach me just that. It's purpose was to teach quiet and withdrawn kids to make themselves heard and all that. A similar course could be implemented to teach kids about bullying, how to deal with it and perhaps to prevent it.

So, if applied in a humane and effective way, it could legitimately help children learn to stand up for themselves.

[Geilinor]

Not that this law will help. The bullies will find something else to bully them for, I doubt there will ever be a feasable solution for bullying at school, it's just part of it.

Remember back when popular culture portrayed bullies as a normal part of life to contend with, and not a genocide-level epidemic that can only be stopped by throwing enough celebrities at it? That was a neat time.

Actually, it wasn't a neat time because kids doing terrible things to each other was accepted.

[The Holy Dominion of Inesea]

@OP, you might want to edit the title from "Nex" to "New"

[Luminesa]

He's trying to argue against Doom by presenting the extreme logical conclusion of his thought process to exploit its flaws, in simple reasoning or in this case, ethics and morals.

Really what I'm just trying to say is that children need to learn to stand up for themselves, what Ifreann is suggesting doesn't need to be such a bad idea if executed properly.
When I joined high school my mom signed me up for an assertiveness course that was supposed to teach me just that. It's purpose was to teach quiet and withdrawn kids to make themselves heard and all that. A similar course could be implemented to teach kids about bullying, how to deal with it and perhaps to prevent it.

So, if applied in a humane and effective way, it could legitimately help children learn to stand up for themselves.

An assertiveness course sounds like a really good idea, actually. I could have used something like that when I was a kid. And educating about bullying, how to spot it, and how to stop it is always a good thing.

[Luminesa]

Remember back when popular culture portrayed bullies as a normal part of life to contend with, and not a genocide-level epidemic that can only be stopped by throwing enough celebrities at it? That was a neat time.

Actually, it wasn't a neat time because kids doing terrible things to each other was accepted.

It still is. It's one thing to throw celebrities on TV and to say, "We don't approve of this." It's another thing to actually implement policies in schools to stop bullying, and to educate about bullying and how to stop it.

[Luminesa]

Student ID numbers sounds helpful.

Um that is how they do it, at least here, so ... at any rate, student id#, and prepaid accounts available online.

That's how it worked in my elementary school, from what I remember. Then again I always just brought my lunch.

[Ifreann]

He's trying to argue against Doom by presenting the extreme logical conclusion of his thought process to exploit its flaws, in simple reasoning or in this case, ethics and morals.

Really what I'm just trying to say is that children need to learn to stand up for themselves, what Ifreann is suggesting doesn't need to be such a bad idea if executed properly.
When I joined high school my mom signed me up for an assertiveness course that was supposed to teach me just that. It's purpose was to teach quiet and withdrawn kids to make themselves heard and all that. A similar course could be implemented to teach kids about bullying, how to deal with it and perhaps to prevent it.

So, if applied in a humane and effective way, it could legitimately help children learn to stand up for themselves.

I'm not suggesting anything inhumane or ineffective. I am merely suggesting that all children be bullied, based on you and Saiwania and any number of other people over the years suggesting that bullying builds character, teaches children to stand up for themselves, and generally toughens them up.I don't know why you're backing off that suggestion and trying to water it down into some namby-pamby "assertiveness course" to prevent bullying. Prevent bullying? If bullying is so good at toughening kids up then we should be encouraging it, not preventing it. We should require it. Let's not just tut at anti-bullying measures every time they come up in the news, let's not just grumble about wrapping kids in cotton wool or "pussification" or whatever. Follow through and demand that no child leave school without being bullied.

Unless bullying is harmful.

Unless bullying is a problem.

Unless bullying is inhumane.

[Frankland]

Examples of schools actions in this thread are pretty bad. Kids should have a little leeway before they get turned away, and they should always be able to eat SOMETHING cheap.

I'm not sure bullying is as big of a deal as people are making it out to be though. The majority of students receive free lunches, so Tommy being turned away for not having money tells the majority of students in the line that Tommy is richer than they are (or his parents are more honest at least).

I remember my school's policy was to let us go $5.25 into the red before they wouldn't give us any more credit. Since lunches were $1.75, that meant we had at least 3 warnings from the lunch lady that we needed to tell our parents to send lunch money.

I know I forgot several times, but the school always made a PBJ in the back so I wasn't hungry all day, but it wasn't as nice as food as what everyone else got.

[Doom Legions]

Really what I'm just trying to say is that children need to learn to stand up for themselves, what Ifreann is suggesting doesn't need to be such a bad idea if executed properly.
When I joined high school my mom signed me up for an assertiveness course that was supposed to teach me just that. It's purpose was to teach quiet and withdrawn kids to make themselves heard and all that. A similar course could be implemented to teach kids about bullying, how to deal with it and perhaps to prevent it.

So, if applied in a humane and effective way, it could legitimately help children learn to stand up for themselves.

I'm not suggesting anything inhumane or ineffective. I am merely suggesting that all children be bullied, based on you and Saiwania and any number of other people over the years suggesting that bullying builds character, teaches children to stand up for themselves, and generally toughens them up.I don't know why you're backing off that suggestion and trying to water it down into some namby-pamby "assertiveness course" to prevent bullying. Prevent bullying? If bullying is so good at toughening kids up then we should be encouraging it, not preventing it. We should require it. Let's not just tut at anti-bullying measures every time they come up in the news, let's not just grumble about wrapping kids in cotton wool or "pussification" or whatever. Follow through and demand that no child leave school without being bullied.

Unless bullying is harmful.

Unless bullying is a problem.

Unless bullying is inhumane.

I'm suggesting this because it could be a good alternative.
But if it isn't then so be it. But installing government bullying programs isn't the way either, if some paid government grunt shows up every day to bully you there's nothing you can really do against that, just let nature run its course. It's called survival of the fittest, neat stuff. Bullying is just one of many obstacles one must overcome in life, succeed and you become stronger and wiser, hence it 'builds character'.

[Imperializt Russia]

He's trying to argue against Doom by presenting the extreme logical conclusion of his thought process to exploit its flaws, in simple reasoning or in this case, ethics and morals.

Really what I'm just trying to say is that children need to learn to stand up for themselves, what Ifreann is suggesting doesn't need to be such a bad idea if executed properly.
When I joined high school my mom signed me up for an assertiveness course that was supposed to teach me just that. It's purpose was to teach quiet and withdrawn kids to make themselves heard and all that. A similar course could be implemented to teach kids about bullying, how to deal with it and perhaps to prevent it.

So, if applied in a humane and effective way, it could legitimately help children learn to stand up for themselves.

So...

Why not advocate for that assertiveness course to become part of the core curriculum?

[Great Nepal]

I'm not suggesting anything inhumane or ineffective. I am merely suggesting that all children be bullied, based on you and Saiwania and any number of other people over the years suggesting that bullying builds character, teaches children to stand up for themselves, and generally toughens them up.I don't know why you're backing off that suggestion and trying to water it down into some namby-pamby "assertiveness course" to prevent bullying. Prevent bullying? If bullying is so good at toughening kids up then we should be encouraging it, not preventing it. We should require it. Let's not just tut at anti-bullying measures every time they come up in the news, let's not just grumble about wrapping kids in cotton wool or "pussification" or whatever. Follow through and demand that no child leave school without being bullied.

Unless bullying is harmful.

Unless bullying is a problem.

Unless bullying is inhumane.

I'm suggesting this because it could be a good alternative.
But if it isn't then so be it. But installing government bullying programs isn't the way either, if some paid government grunt shows up every day to bully you there's nothing you can really do against that, just let nature run its course. It's called survival of the fittest, neat stuff. Bullying is just one of many obstacles one must overcome in life, succeed and you become stronger and wiser, hence it 'builds character'.

Entire history of humanity is eliminating survival of fittest, and removing the obstacles. Going by your 'logic', perhaps we should drop kids in middle of the woods in their undergarments to survive for 18 years - survival of fittest and building of character.

[The Black Forrest]

Alright, I'm tiring of people in here acting like bullying is the worst thing in the world. My larger point is that life doesn't reward the weak and you'll come across plenty of unpleasant people in this world. I'm not referring to physical harm so much as verbal abuse. Happens in the workplace or wherever else, you just got to learn to not be too bothered by such things. In my experience, a display of weakness is an invitation for more people to try to get you upset.

So the fact murder and rape esists....means bullying is ok?......

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

I don't think this can effectively be enforced and thus I'm against this. Enduring simple bullying builds character and lunch is optional. I didn't have it for nearly the entire duration of K-12. So far as lunch being the only source of food for some children, give me a break. Even the lowest incomes can afford food, that is part of the point of minimum wage. It is almost a given that if a child isn't getting any food at home, that they'd eventually wind up getting removed from that home by the state.

Lunch is important meal and kids need all the support they can get.

It can be enforced, just like all the other anti bullying laws can.

Yeah, it builds character to them being an asshole beacuse the world treated them like an asshole.

---

OP, Please change your 'x' into to a 'w'.

'Nex Mexico' is not a real place.

---

Alright, I'm tiring of people in here acting like bullying is the worst thing in the world. My larger point is that life doesn't reward the weak and you'll come across plenty of unpleasant people in this world. I'm not referring to physical harm so much as verbal abuse. Happens in the workplace or wherever else, you just got to learn to not be too bothered by such things. In my experience, a display of weakness is an invitation for more people to try to get you upset.

Worse things that can happen to you doesn't mean a bad thing that happens to you isn't bad.

[Luminesa]

Really what I'm just trying to say is that children need to learn to stand up for themselves, what Ifreann is suggesting doesn't need to be such a bad idea if executed properly.
When I joined high school my mom signed me up for an assertiveness course that was supposed to teach me just that. It's purpose was to teach quiet and withdrawn kids to make themselves heard and all that. A similar course could be implemented to teach kids about bullying, how to deal with it and perhaps to prevent it.

So, if applied in a humane and effective way, it could legitimately help children learn to stand up for themselves.

I'm not suggesting anything inhumane or ineffective. I am merely suggesting that all children be bullied, based on you and Saiwania and any number of other people over the years suggesting that bullying builds character, teaches children to stand up for themselves, and generally toughens them up.I don't know why you're backing off that suggestion and trying to water it down into some namby-pamby "assertiveness course" to prevent bullying. Prevent bullying? If bullying is so good at toughening kids up then we should be encouraging it, not preventing it. We should require it. Let's not just tut at anti-bullying measures every time they come up in the news, let's not just grumble about wrapping kids in cotton wool or "pussification" or whatever. Follow through and demand that no child leave school without being bullied.

Unless bullying is harmful.

Unless bullying is a problem.

Unless bullying is inhumane.

> "I think bullying can be stopped, and one way to stop it is by teaching children to recognize bullying and stand-up for themselves."
> "WHY ARE YOU BACKING DOWN, I THOUGHT YOU WANTED TO BULLY ALL KIDS. LET'S BULLY ALL KIDS, THAT'LL TEACH 'EM."

Remember that you're the one who made that suggestion based on an extreme, and since he has made the claim that assertiveness classes are helpful and that this is his position, I think your shot went the way most of North Korea's missiles go, missing their mark. And as a result, yes, you are now pushing for something inhumane, and far more extreme than what Doom was suggesting, because of your failure to accurately consider his post. Thanks for advocating ruthless bullying, Ifreann.

[Doom Legions]

Really what I'm just trying to say is that children need to learn to stand up for themselves, what Ifreann is suggesting doesn't need to be such a bad idea if executed properly.
When I joined high school my mom signed me up for an assertiveness course that was supposed to teach me just that. It's purpose was to teach quiet and withdrawn kids to make themselves heard and all that. A similar course could be implemented to teach kids about bullying, how to deal with it and perhaps to prevent it.

So, if applied in a humane and effective way, it could legitimately help children learn to stand up for themselves.

So...

Why not advocate for that assertiveness course to become part of the core curriculum?

Tell someone who actually cares about society and humanity in general to do that, I'm not wasting my time and energy on pushing some idea.

I'm suggesting this because it could be a good alternative.
But if it isn't then so be it. But installing government bullying programs isn't the way either, if some paid government grunt shows up every day to bully you there's nothing you can really do against that, just let nature run its course. It's called survival of the fittest, neat stuff. Bullying is just one of many obstacles one must overcome in life, succeed and you become stronger and wiser, hence it 'builds character'.

Entire history of humanity is eliminating survival of fittest, and removing the obstacles. Going by your 'logic', perhaps we should drop kids in middle of the woods in their undergarments to survive for 18 years - survival of fittest and building of character.

Actually teaching kids basic survival lessons is a great idea. I've served with the boyscouts myself for years and learned a great deal there. Teaching kids basics like how to safely make a campfire, how to make basic knots, identifying what flora's poisonous and what's edible etc.

So, once again, when done in a humane and efficient way, a great idea.
I don't see why you guys keep taking a small part of my ideas and push them to the utter extreme, I mean it'd make for a hella metal society but y'all can't handle that so you might want to stop giving me all these ideas

[Luminesa]

I don't think this can effectively be enforced and thus I'm against this. Enduring simple bullying builds character and lunch is optional. I didn't have it for nearly the entire duration of K-12. So far as lunch being the only source of food for some children, give me a break. Even the lowest incomes can afford food, that is part of the point of minimum wage. It is almost a given that if a child isn't getting any food at home, that they'd eventually wind up getting removed from that home by the state.

Lunch is important meal and kids need all the support they can get.

It can be enforced, just like all the other anti bullying laws can.

Yeah, it builds character to them being an asshole beacuse the world treated them like an asshole.

---

OP, Please change your 'x' into to a 'w'.

'Nex Mexico' is not a real place.

---

Alright, I'm tiring of people in here acting like bullying is the worst thing in the world. My larger point is that life doesn't reward the weak and you'll come across plenty of unpleasant people in this world. I'm not referring to physical harm so much as verbal abuse. Happens in the workplace or wherever else, you just got to learn to not be too bothered by such things. In my experience, a display of weakness is an invitation for more people to try to get you upset.

Worse things that can happen to you doesn't mean a bad thing that happens to you isn't bad.

Right.

[Chessmistress]

I have a radical idea though, how about we make all school lunches free? Can't study, or do pretty much anything on an empty stomach. And it would insure kids get at least one healthy meal. What say you NSG?

No.
Have a progressive system with pre-paid lunch tickets instead. The kids from lowest-income families get them for free. Kids from low-income get a discount, and kids from middle-to-high income pay for the full price. But no money at school: only pre-paid tickets.

You're right about the part "no money to the school" but I don't think there should be tickets or something like that.
I don't think it could work fine.
ALL children should have free meals at the school, including rich kids.
Middle-to-high income families should pay through taxation, never directly for the meals, the meals should be for free, and meant as a right of all children while being at school.

[Luminesa]

So...

Why not advocate for that assertiveness course to become part of the core curriculum?

Tell someone who actually cares about society and humanity in general to do that, I'm not wasting my time and energy on pushing some idea.

Entire history of humanity is eliminating survival of fittest, and removing the obstacles. Going by your 'logic', perhaps we should drop kids in middle of the woods in their undergarments to survive for 18 years - survival of fittest and building of character.

Actually teaching kids basic survival lessons is a great idea. I've served with the boyscouts myself for years and learned a great deal there. Teaching kids basics like how to safely make a campfire, how to make basic knots, identifying what flora's poisonous and what's edible etc.

So, once again, when done in a humane and efficient way, a great idea.
I don't see why you guys keep taking a small part of my ideas and push them to the utter extreme, I mean it'd make for a hella metal society but y'all can't handle that so you might want to stop giving me all these ideas

I mean, assertiveness classes are a good idea, I think you should push it!

But I'm the one becoming the teacher, maybe I could push for this as part of an anti-bullying program. Helping the meek and quiet kids to become strong and to help them against bullying sounds awesome.

[Datlofff]

If bullying is good for children, why should only the poor kids get this particular kind of bullying? Surely you'd want every child to have equal access to that wonderful "character building". So set up a rota, where each week it's the turn of one child in the class to be bullied and they all get a turn, and the other children are given demerits for conduct if they fail to bully the victim of the week.

Yes that's absurd, and deliberately so. It's the logical consequence of your absurd belief that bullying is beneficial to the victims of it.

And hey, if they end up killing themselves, then they just weren't strong enough for the real world. *nod*

Natural selection.

[Doom Legions]

Tell someone who actually cares about society and humanity in general to do that, I'm not wasting my time and energy on pushing some idea.


Actually teaching kids basic survival lessons is a great idea. I've served with the boyscouts myself for years and learned a great deal there. Teaching kids basics like how to safely make a campfire, how to make basic knots, identifying what flora's poisonous and what's edible etc.

So, once again, when done in a humane and efficient way, a great idea.
I don't see why you guys keep taking a small part of my ideas and push them to the utter extreme, I mean it'd make for a hella metal society but y'all can't handle that so you might want to stop giving me all these ideas

I mean, assertiveness classes are a good idea, I think you should push it!

But I'm the one becoming the teacher, maybe I could push for this as part of an anti-bullying program. Helping the meek and quiet kids to become strong and to help them against bullying sounds awesome.

Eh, I'm not really the kind of person to push for such a thing, besides bullying in the country I live in isn't as common and certainly not as extreme as in the US. If you want to take the idea and make it reality though, by all means go ahead. Just eh be sure to give credit where it's due if you succeed eh? Heheh.

[The Black Forrest]

And hey, if they end up killing themselves, then they just weren't strong enough for the real world. *nod*

Natural selection.

I weep over education.