NationStates

Conserative Morality wrote:

Soldati Senza Confini wrote:You can't split the individual from society.

If it is an obligation for the whole, it is an obligation for the part.

I disagree. If you couldn't split the individual from society, then there would be no individuals apart from society, nor any individuals who could move from one society to another. The obligations of groups do not necessarily impose an obligation on all members within that group.

You can split the individual from society but he will still be a complex product of society. Estrangement from society, though, unless it's in nature or God, generally causes the individual to slowly degenerate. Basement dwellers are a good example of this.

The Parkus Empire wrote:

Conserative Morality wrote:I disagree. If you couldn't split the individual from society, then there would be no individuals apart from society, nor any individuals who could move from one society to another. The obligations of groups do not necessarily impose an obligation on all members within that group.

You can split the individual from society but he will still be a complex product of society. Estrangement from society, though, unless it's in nature or God, generally causes the individual to slowly degenerate. Basement dwellers are a good example of this.

I'd mostly agree with that. I'd just remove the two 'unless' clauses, since they just causes slightly different types of decay.

Aillyria wrote:

United Muscovite Nations wrote:No it isn't. Abortion, homosexuality, divorce, fornication, and adultery are widespread and accepted by the society.

^ This. We're living in the most god-hating, satan worshipping, and degenerate time in humanity's history.

Have you ever actually looked at history before the modern era?

Because unlike ancient times, we don't consider infanticide acceptable, or that adults should be able to have sex with someone as young as twelve (or nine, if we're looking at your prophet). The "pre-degenerate" era of human history is a myth. Even UMN's favorite idol Nicholas was probably not legitimate because one of his ancestors fucked a man who wasn't her husband.

Albrenia wrote:

The Parkus Empire wrote:
You can split the individual from society but he will still be a complex product of society. Estrangement from society, though, unless it's in nature or God, generally causes the individual to slowly degenerate. Basement dwellers are a good example of this.

I'd mostly agree with that. I'd just remove the two 'unless' clauses, since they just causes slightly different types of decay.

On the contrary, lack of solitude with nature and God also causes degeneration: antisocial tendencies strongly correlate with population density.

War Gears wrote:

Aillyria wrote:^ This. We're living in the most god-hating, satan worshipping, and degenerate time in humanity's history.

Have you ever actually looked at history before the modern era?

Because unlike ancient times, we don't consider infanticide acceptable, or that adults should be able to have sex with someone as young as twelve (or nine, if we're looking at your prophet). The "pre-degenerate" era of human history is a myth. Even UMN's favorite idol Nicholas was probably not legitimate because one of his ancestors fucked a man who wasn't her husband.

Paul I is said to have resembled Peter III.

The Parkus Empire wrote:

Albrenia wrote:
I'd mostly agree with that. I'd just remove the two 'unless' clauses, since they just causes slightly different types of decay.

On the contrary, lack of solitude with nature and God also causes degeneration: antisocial tendencies strongly correlate with population density.

I agree with this assessment.

United Muscovite Nations wrote:

Conserative Morality wrote:The point of the argument, as summed in the guy's last tweet:


Is that anti-choice advocates are using an emotional argument that they themselves do not actually believe. The whole 'unborn child' bull is hollow, down to its core.

lol, I literally just said the eggs should be saved if they are going to live.

So a bunch of cells should be saved over a conscious toddler?

Genivaria wrote:

United Muscovite Nations wrote:So, should a woman be able to abandon her child to die?

Not in the same area as the previous examples.
The child is not part of her body, the child is its own person who the mother is legally responsible for.

I think the issue hinges on whether the mother is responsible prior to birth, or only after. Which in turn hinges on whether society includes the unborn; classical conservatism understands society in an eternalist sense (all points in time are real), including the dead, living and unborn. Whereas liberalism has a presentist (only the present is real) conception of society. I'm extremely critical of conservatism in general, but that is because I am a classical conservative. Environmental disregard by conservatives, for instance, is to me a product of presentism.

War Gears wrote:

Aillyria wrote:^ This. We're living in the most god-hating, satan worshipping, and degenerate time in humanity's history.

Have you ever actually looked at history before the modern era?

Because unlike ancient times, we don't consider infanticide acceptable, or that adults should be able to have sex with someone as young as twelve (or nine, if we're looking at your prophet). The "pre-degenerate" era of human history is a myth. Even UMN's favorite idol Nicholas was probably not legitimate because one of his ancestors fucked a man who wasn't her husband.

Lol, humanity is only materially better off than it was back then, tbh. BTW there is no definitive evidence that Aisha was a child, so that so called argument is stale AF and needs to be shelved, think of sometjing else.

Modern age we have all this gender fluid bullshit, fat acceptance, pedophilia as a sexual orientation, safe spaces, etc etc etc. Society is going down the fucking gutter. I pray the end days are near so Allah will cast down the degenerates who pervert his creation to the fire.

Aillyria wrote:

War Gears wrote:
Have you ever actually looked at history before the modern era?

Because unlike ancient times, we don't consider infanticide acceptable, or that adults should be able to have sex with someone as young as twelve (or nine, if we're looking at your prophet). The "pre-degenerate" era of human history is a myth. Even UMN's favorite idol Nicholas was probably not legitimate because one of his ancestors fucked a man who wasn't her husband.

Lol, humanity is only materially better off than it was back then, tbh. BTW there is no definitive evidence that Aisha was a child, so that so called argument is stale AF and needs to be shelved, think of sometjing else.

Modern age we have all this gender fluid bullshit, fat acceptance, pedophilia as a sexual orientation, safe spaces, etc etc etc. Society is going down the fucking gutter. I pray the end days are near so Allah will cast down the degenerates who pervert his creation to the fire.

You'll be sure to cast the first stone.

The Parkus Empire wrote:

Aillyria wrote:
Lol, humanity is only materially better off than it was back then, tbh. BTW there is no definitive evidence that Aisha was a child, so that so called argument is stale AF and needs to be shelved, think of sometjing else.

Modern age we have all this gender fluid bullshit, fat acceptance, pedophilia as a sexual orientation, safe spaces, etc etc etc. Society is going down the fucking gutter. I pray the end days are near so Allah will cast down the degenerates who pervert his creation to the fire.

You'll be sure to cast the first stone.

I doubt it. Believe it our not, I'm not violent til provoked.

Aillyria wrote:

The Parkus Empire wrote:
You'll be sure to cast the first stone.

I doubt it. Believe it our not, I'm not violent til provoked.

I meant it as a figure of speech.

Aillyria wrote:

War Gears wrote:
Have you ever actually looked at history before the modern era?

Because unlike ancient times, we don't consider infanticide acceptable, or that adults should be able to have sex with someone as young as twelve (or nine, if we're looking at your prophet). The "pre-degenerate" era of human history is a myth. Even UMN's favorite idol Nicholas was probably not legitimate because one of his ancestors fucked a man who wasn't her husband.

Lol, humanity is only materially better off than it was back then, tbh. BTW there is no definitive evidence that Aisha was a child, so that so called argument is stale AF and needs to be shelved, think of sometjing else.

Modern age we have all this gender fluid bullshit, fat acceptance, pedophilia as a sexual orientation, safe spaces, etc etc etc. Society is going down the fucking gutter. I pray the end days are near so Allah will cast down the degenerates who pervert his creation to the fire.

Excuse me but I have a whole host of gentlemen from Memri TV will contest all of those claims.

Aillyria wrote:

War Gears wrote:
Have you ever actually looked at history before the modern era?

Because unlike ancient times, we don't consider infanticide acceptable, or that adults should be able to have sex with someone as young as twelve (or nine, if we're looking at your prophet). The "pre-degenerate" era of human history is a myth. Even UMN's favorite idol Nicholas was probably not legitimate because one of his ancestors fucked a man who wasn't her husband.

Lol, humanity is only materially better off than it was back then, tbh. BTW there is no definitive evidence that Aisha was a child, so that so called argument is stale AF and needs to be shelved, think of sometjing else.

Modern age we have all this gender fluid bullshit, fat acceptance, pedophilia as a sexual orientation, safe spaces, etc etc etc. Society is going down the fucking gutter. I pray the end days are near so Allah will cast down the degenerates who pervert his creation to the fire.

Afaik the vast majority of ye olde sources say Aisha was married at 7 or so and the marriage was consummated when she was 9. Pedophilia and shit like that certainly isn't unique to the modern era.

The Parkus Empire wrote:

Aillyria wrote:I doubt it. Believe it our not, I'm not violent til provoked.

I meant it as a figure of speech.

Ah, ok

The East Marches II wrote:

Aillyria wrote:
Lol, humanity is only materially better off than it was back then, tbh. BTW there is no definitive evidence that Aisha was a child, so that so called argument is stale AF and needs to be shelved, think of sometjing else.

Modern age we have all this gender fluid bullshit, fat acceptance, pedophilia as a sexual orientation, safe spaces, etc etc etc. Society is going down the fucking gutter. I pray the end days are near so Allah will cast down the degenerates who pervert his creation to the fire.

Excuse me but I have a whole host of gentlemen from Memri TV will contest all of those claims.

What is Memri TV?

Aillyria wrote:

The Parkus Empire wrote:I meant it as a figure of speech.

Ah, ok

The East Marches II wrote:
Excuse me but I have a whole host of gentlemen from Memri TV will contest all of those claims.

What is Memri TV?

Translations of Arab TV. Its a pretty good channel with interesting characters.

Washington Resistance Army wrote:

Aillyria wrote:
Lol, humanity is only materially better off than it was back then, tbh. BTW there is no definitive evidence that Aisha was a child, so that so called argument is stale AF and needs to be shelved, think of sometjing else.

Modern age we have all this gender fluid bullshit, fat acceptance, pedophilia as a sexual orientation, safe spaces, etc etc etc. Society is going down the fucking gutter. I pray the end days are near so Allah will cast down the degenerates who pervert his creation to the fire.

Afaik the vast majority of ye olde sources say Aisha was married at 7 or so and the marriage was consummated when she was 9. Pedophilia and shit like that certainly isn't unique to the modern era.

18 year old age of consent is very modern, but sex with a girl at that age was certainly not common and would probably be considered sick. Puberty would be absolute minimal and probably somewhat older than that for reasons of childbearing safety.

War Gears wrote:So a bunch of cells should be saved over a conscious toddler?

They are both humans.

The East Marches II wrote:

Aillyria wrote:Ah, ok


What is Memri TV?

Translations of Arab TV. Its a pretty good channel with interesting characters.

Eh, I don't really watch Arab tv.....since I'm not an Arab, lol.

Aillyria wrote: I pray the end days are near so Allah will cast down the degenerates who pervert his creation to the fire.

Don't worry about that, we'll all be dead in one hundred years or so.

Aillyria wrote:Lol, humanity is only materially better off than it was back then, tbh.

Your imaginary spiritual meter is not an accurate means of measuring what's better off.

Aillyria wrote:BTW there is no definitive evidence that Aisha was a child, so that so called argument is stale AF and needs to be shelved, think of sometjing else.

Aisha being nine years old is well established, it's recorded she even used to play with dolls while married to Muhammad. You may not like that your prophet had sex with a little girl who played with dolls, but unfortunately, it's historical fact.

Aillyria wrote:we have all this gender fluid bullshit,

Yet your side constantly fails to explain why it's bullshit.

Aillyria wrote:fat acceptance,

Almost entirely a fringe thing, whereas back in the medieval ages, being overweight was a sign of beauty.

Aillyria wrote:pedophilia as a sexual orientation,

Pedophilia being a paraphilia has been established by psychiatrists for years.

Aillyria wrote:safe spaces,

See my point about your side failing to explain why this is bullshit.

Aillyria wrote:Society is going down the fucking gutter.

Oh, but the days where blacks were segregated were so much better?

Aillyria wrote:I pray the end days are near so Allah will cast down the degenerates who pervert his creation to the fire.

Charming. Unfortunately most of us don't have sadistic urges to watch people we disagree with burn in agony because they make us feel bad.

Austrasien wrote:

War Gears wrote:So a bunch of cells should be saved over a conscious toddler?

They are both humans.

So are the cells on my finger. I'd still save a toddler over them.

War Gears wrote:

United Muscovite Nations wrote:lol, I literally just said the eggs should be saved if they are going to live.

So a bunch of cells should be saved over a conscious toddler?

Tbh we'd do them a favor if we don't allow people to be born into this world. Especially if they're born in poverty striken areas. I'd rather never exist than being born in a shitty part of Africa for example.

War Gears wrote:Almost entirely a fringe thing, whereas back in the medieval ages, being overweight was a sign of beauty.

Source please.

War Gears wrote:

Aillyria wrote:Lol, humanity is only materially better off than it was back then, tbh.

Your imaginary spiritual meter is not an accurate means of measuring what's better off.

Aillyria wrote:BTW there is no definitive evidence that Aisha was a child, so that so called argument is stale AF and needs to be shelved, think of sometjing else.

Aisha being nine years old is well established, it's recorded she even used to play with dolls while married to Muhammad. You may not like that your prophet had sex with a little girl who played with dolls, but unfortunately, it's historical fact.

Aillyria wrote:we have all this gender fluid bullshit,

Yet your side constantly fails to explain why it's bullshit.

Aillyria wrote:fat acceptance,

Almost entirely a fringe thing, whereas back in the medieval ages, being overweight was a sign of beauty.

Aillyria wrote:pedophilia as a sexual orientation,

Pedophilia being a paraphilia has been established by psychiatrists for years.

Aillyria wrote:safe spaces,

See my point about your side failing to explain why this is bullshit.

Aillyria wrote:Society is going down the fucking gutter.

Oh, but the days where blacks were segregated were so much better?

Aillyria wrote:I pray the end days are near so Allah will cast down the degenerates who pervert his creation to the fire.

Charming. Unfortunately most of us don't have sadistic urges to watch people we disagree with burn in agony because they make us feel bad.

Being fat was beautiful in the Renaissance, not during the Middle Ages.