Right Wing Discussion Thread IX: The Right Man's Burden

[United Muscovite Nations]

Why do you get to decide who is mentally fit? Are those with depression also mentally unfit?

See my response to Pret for the latter.

And I don't decide who is mentally fit. Psychiatrists and psychologists do, because they are trained even today to know who is mentally fit and unfit and who should go to a mental institution and who should not.

You do realize that if you tell a psychiatrist you want to kill yourself, they can actually intervene to prevent you from doing so, right? Being suicidal is basically considered a mental illness.

[The V O I D]

When a normal, rational person does it

A normal, rational person does not kill themselves.

Sure they can.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

A normal, rational person does not kill themselves.

Sure they can.

No, it's literally the opposite of rational and normal.

[The V O I D]

See my response to Pret for the latter.

And I don't decide who is mentally fit. Psychiatrists and psychologists do, because they are trained even today to know who is mentally fit and unfit and who should go to a mental institution and who should not.

You do realize that if you tell a psychiatrist you want to kill yourself, they can actually intervene to prevent you from doing so, right? Being suicidal is basically considered a mental illness.

Usually, telling your psychiatrist about it is a sign you want help and that you are depressed rather than actually suicidal.

Suicidal people, whether depressed or not, don't even announce to anyone they are going to do it. They just do one day. For no apparent reason. Sometimes there isn't even a note.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

You do realize that if you tell a psychiatrist you want to kill yourself, they can actually intervene to prevent you from doing so, right? Being suicidal is basically considered a mental illness.

Usually, telling your psychiatrist about it is a sign you want help and that you are depressed rather than actually suicidal.

Suicidal people, whether depressed or not, don't even announce to anyone they are going to do it. They just do one day. For no apparent reason. Sometimes there isn't even a note.

>Le "You don't actually want to kill yourself!" meme
If you want to kill yourself, then you are suicidal.

[Luminesa]

And with that non-argument, we're done here. You lose.

Subscribing to "alternative facts" now are we?

More like he doesn't have an actual argument, and so he's trying to shut you down.

Suicide is not "bodily sovereignty". Suicide is the result of multiple horrible things happening inside and around a person. The vast majority of people who suicide are not doing it because, "IT'S MY BODY, IT'S MY CHOICE." They are doing it because they are afraid, they are hurting, their mental state is usually very battered, they need help, and they don't know where or how to get that help. They feel lost, bullied, and unwanted by society. What an absolutely naive assumption, that people suicide for the simple reason of, "IT'S MY BODY I CAN DO WHAT I WANT," like they're getting a tattoo or something.

And to proclaim that suicide is "freedom", when it is in reality a cry for help, and that mental institutions should shut down their suicide-wings to allow people to continue killing themselves, is a crime against humanity that should be punished by society. Nothing more, nothing less. It undermines everything about modern medicine, about coming to better understandings about mental health, and it abandons those who are struggling to survive and to try to live as functional human beings to their own sicknesses. Crime. Against. Humanity.

[The V O I D]

Usually, telling your psychiatrist about it is a sign you want help and that you are depressed rather than actually suicidal.

Suicidal people, whether depressed or not, don't even announce to anyone they are going to do it. They just do one day. For no apparent reason. Sometimes there isn't even a note.

>Le "You don't actually want to kill yourself!" meme
If you want to kill yourself, then you are suicidal.

Wanting to kill yourself and telling someone is a sign of hesitation; a sign you aren't completely sure, even though you may want to. Sure, they are suicidal, but not actively.

As for actively suicidal people, they tell no one. They know their plan and are convicted to do it - whether it succeeds or fails is another story. Sometimes they refuse to leave a note. And then it just happens. No apparent reason; it just does.

[Luminesa]

Sure they can.

No, it's literally the opposite of rational and normal.

I don't think VOID understands mental health issues.

Robin Williams, for example, did not kill himself merely because he wanted to. He had early-onset Parkinson's, he had struggled with depression, drugs, and alcohol for years, and he felt hopeless. And his case is one of MANY unfortunate cases.

People who are perfectly content with their lives and who have stable mental health do not kill themselves.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Sure, they are suicidal

Case closed.

[The V O I D]

Sure, they are suicidal

Case closed.

You missed the 'not actively' part.

Anyways, I seriously do not see the issue here. Bodily sovereignty is absolute - even in cases of suicide. A person should be able to make their own decisions about what happens to their body. A person should also be able to choose when, where and how they 'check out' of life.

I know full well I intend to make such a decision, if it comes down to that, later on in life. All I know is, if I know I'm going to suffer later on in life (because I'm diagnosed early for alzheimer's or some shit), or if I know I'm not going to live a full life anyway, I'm going to choose where and when and how I check out. And that is my choice. Not a single other person's.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Case closed.

You missed the 'not actively' part.

I did not miss any part.

Anyways, I seriously do not see the issue here. Bodily sovereignty is absolute - even in cases of suicide. A person should be able to make their own decisions about what happens to their body. A person should also be able to choose when, where and how they 'check out' of life.

Such people should literally get help.

I know full well I intend to make such a decision, if it comes down to that, later on in life. All I know is, if I know I'm going to suffer later on in life (because I'm diagnosed early for alzheimer's or some shit), or if I know I'm not going to live a full life anyway, I'm going to choose where and when and how I check out. And that is my choice. Not a single other person's.

It's at this point I would refer you to the suicide hotline, but I guess you're not interested in such violations of your bodily sovereignty.

[The V O I D]

You missed the 'not actively' part.

I did not miss any part.

Anyways, I seriously do not see the issue here. Bodily sovereignty is absolute - even in cases of suicide. A person should be able to make their own decisions about what happens to their body. A person should also be able to choose when, where and how they 'check out' of life.

1. Such people should literally get help.

I know full well I intend to make such a decision, if it comes down to that, later on in life. All I know is, if I know I'm going to suffer later on in life (because I'm diagnosed early for alzheimer's or some shit), or if I know I'm not going to live a full life anyway, I'm going to choose where and when and how I check out. And that is my choice. Not a single other person's.

2. It's at this point I would refer you to the suicide hotline, but I guess you're not interested in such violations of your bodily sovereignty.

1. Why should they? If they want to check out, let them. It is not your business nor your decision to make.

2. Technically, it wouldn't violate my bodily sovereignty as I could just ignore the number as these are just words and numbers on a screen. If I ever so choose to end it, it will be on my terms. Not on anyone else's. Meaning if I am ever declared terminally ill, or something of that sort, I am not waiting for the end; I'm going to complete at least the top five items on my bucket list and then I'm checking out, there's the door. That's just my decision; my choice.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

I did not miss any part.

1. Such people should literally get help.

2. It's at this point I would refer you to the suicide hotline, but I guess you're not interested in such violations of your bodily sovereignty.

1. Why should they? If they want to check out, let them. It is not your business nor your decision to make.

I'll fucking make it my business.

2. Technically, it wouldn't violate my bodily sovereignty as I could just ignore the number as these are just words and numbers on a screen. If I ever so choose to end it, it will be on my terms. Not on anyone else's. Meaning if I am ever declared terminally ill, or something of that sort, I am not waiting for the end; I'm going to complete at least the top five items on my bucket list and then I'm checking out, there's the door. That's just my decision; my choice.

You're a teenager, I don't trust you to stick to your choices.

[The V O I D]

1. Why should they? If they want to check out, let them. It is not your business nor your decision to make.

1. I'll fucking make it my business.

2. Technically, it wouldn't violate my bodily sovereignty as I could just ignore the number as these are just words and numbers on a screen. If I ever so choose to end it, it will be on my terms. Not on anyone else's. Meaning if I am ever declared terminally ill, or something of that sort, I am not waiting for the end; I'm going to complete at least the top five items on my bucket list and then I'm checking out, there's the door. That's just my decision; my choice.

2. You're a teenager, I don't trust you to stick to your choices.

1. Well, it's not like I can stop you from trying; but in the end, the decision rests on the person in question, not you.

2. That's why I said 'later on in life, if it comes down to it'. I don't intend to check out any time soon, unless somehow I'm diagnosed with terminal cancer in the next few years.

[Husseinarti]

We shouldn't kill suicide bombers that would be in violation of their body sovereignty.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

1. I'll fucking make it my business.

2. You're a teenager, I don't trust you to stick to your choices.

1. Well, it's not like I can stop you from trying; but in the end, the decision rests on the person in question, not you.

It'll come down to how much sedative it takes to get the guy to a medical facility.

2. That's why I said 'later on in life, if it comes down to it'. I don't intend to check out any time soon, unless somehow I'm diagnosed with terminal cancer in the next few years.

If it comes to it I'll violate your bodily sovereignty.

[Gim]

We shouldn't kill suicide bombers that would be in violation of their body sovereignty.

What about the body sovereignty of the victims of suicide bombing?

[Husseinarti]

We shouldn't kill suicide bombers that would be in violation of their body sovereignty.

What about the body sovereignty of the victims of suicide bombing?

My body my rights you have to get over you silly statist~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Gim]

What about the body sovereignty of the victims of suicide bombing?

My body my rights you have to get over you silly statist~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Blargh.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

Get your hands off my fucking organs! Find an O-neg to tear apart!

Yes, I prefer to be buried whole.

[Gim]

Get your hands off my fucking organs! Find an O-neg to tear apart!

Yes, I prefer to be buried whole.

Whoa, whoa there.

[Mattopilos II]

Get your hands off my fucking organs! Find an O-neg to tear apart!

Yes, I prefer to be buried whole.

Kinky

[FelrikTheDeleted]

Kinky

Tfw you wonder what Matt is talking about. Tfw you say it out loud and realise how it sounds.

[Conserative Morality]

Wanting to kill yourself and telling someone is a sign of hesitation; a sign you aren't completely sure, even though you may want to. Sure, they are suicidal, but not actively.

As for actively suicidal people, they tell no one. They know their plan and are convicted to do it - whether it succeeds or fails is another story. Sometimes they refuse to leave a note. And then it just happens. No apparent reason; it just does.

Clearly you've never suffered with the guilt of constant suicidality staying up for two days straight bargaining with yourself not for your life but for your death because you're just so fucking tired knowing that your death will devastate the people you love most but being just aware enough to resent the numbness of that realization.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

My body my rights you have to get over you silly statist~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Makes sense. *nods*