Right Wing Discussion Thread IX: The Right Man's Burden

[Sanctissima]

You are thinking of the reply for mediation. Austria rejected Serbia's disingenuous counter-offer and prepared to deliver justice.

Austria didn't get the reply until after the deadline. The Austrian representative was deliberately given the run around and kept waiting in Germany until after the deadline and Austria declared war.

That's... not how that happened. At least not as far as I'm aware.

Serbia agreed to 9 out of the 10 demands in the Austrian ultimatum. Austria, which wanted the war anyway, used the refusal of the final demand (it being that Austria could essentially establish its own police force in Serbia) as pretext to declare war.

Kaiser Willie was away on his annual trip to Sweden at the time, and was actually pretty pissed at the Austrian course of action, so I don't believe Austria's declaration of war was forced by Germany.

[The East Marches II]

Austria didn't get the reply until after the deadline. The Austrian representative was deliberately given the run around and kept waiting in Germany until after the deadline and Austria declared war.

That's... not how that happened. At least not as far as I'm aware.

Serbia agreed to 9 out of the 10 demands in the Austrian ultimatum. Austria, which wanted the war anyway, used the refusal of the final demand (it being that Austria could essentially establish its own police force in Serbia) as pretext to declare war.

Kaiser Willie was away on his annual trip to Sweden at the time, and was actually pretty pissed at the Austrian course of action, so I don't believe Austria's declaration of war was forced by Germany.

They were clearly looking for peace with such reasonable demands. Its quite clear that Serbia was either state that could not control itself internally or was actively support terror groups as a state sponsor. They shouldn't have tried to reason with such bandits and just let them have it.

[Sanctissima]

That's... not how that happened. At least not as far as I'm aware.

Serbia agreed to 9 out of the 10 demands in the Austrian ultimatum. Austria, which wanted the war anyway, used the refusal of the final demand (it being that Austria could essentially establish its own police force in Serbia) as pretext to declare war.

Kaiser Willie was away on his annual trip to Sweden at the time, and was actually pretty pissed at the Austrian course of action, so I don't believe Austria's declaration of war was forced by Germany.

They were clearly looking for peace with such reasonable demands. Its quite clear that Serbia was either state that could not control itself internally or was actively support terror groups as a state sponsor. They shouldn't have tried to reason with such bandits and just let them have it.

Here we have the Austrian in his natural habitat, presenting himself as a friend to Europe when in reality he is plotting the continent's demise whilst frequenting Turkish brothels.

[The East Marches II]

They were clearly looking for peace with such reasonable demands. Its quite clear that Serbia was either state that could not control itself internally or was actively support terror groups as a state sponsor. They shouldn't have tried to reason with such bandits and just let them have it.

Here we have the Austrian in his natural habitat, presenting himself as a friend to Europe when in reality he is plotting the continent's demise whilst frequenting Turkish brothels.

N-no I swear. D-don't listen to UMN's propaganda.

[Mattopilos II]

Here we have the Austrian in his natural habitat, presenting himself as a friend to Europe when in reality he is plotting the continent's demise whilst frequenting Turkish brothels.

N-no I swear. D-don't listen to UMN's propaganda.

Where's the lie though :^)

[Proctopeo]

No, they were crippled so that the Allies could reap the spoils of war.

And Germany didn't start WWI, so really your statement doesn't even pan out.

Yes. Germany intentionally held back the Serbian response to the ultimatum from Austria until after the deadline, because they knew if Austria got it there would be no war.

After WWI Germany should have been Balkanized. annexed by America

fixd

[The East Marches II]

N-no I swear. D-don't listen to UMN's propaganda.

Where's the lie though :^)

Thats my trademark symbol reee

[The Parkus Empire]

Austria didn't get the reply until after the deadline. The Austrian representative was deliberately given the run around and kept waiting in Germany until after the deadline and Austria declared war.

That's... not how that happened. At least not as far as I'm aware.

Serbia agreed to 9 out of the 10 demands in the Austrian ultimatum. Austria, which wanted the war anyway, used the refusal of the final demand (it being that Austria could essentially establish its own police force in Serbia) as pretext to declare war.

Kaiser Willie was away on his annual trip to Sweden at the time, and was actually pretty pissed at the Austrian course of action, so I don't believe Austria's declaration of war was forced by Germany.

Plz read

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_Crisis


Wilhelm did indeed think war was pointless after he saw Serbia's reply, but his cabinet directly blocked attempts at reconciliation from getting to Austria based on Wilhelm's prior policy (which was war, he called Austria weak for even bothering with talks). Wilhelm was out of Germany on purpose to mask his involvement in starting the war (which was planned and set to go through by both Germany and Austria prior to the assassination); he figured this would make him look like his hands were tied rather than an agressor, keeping other powers from getting involved.

I hold Germany 100% responsible for WWI, however much blame you want to ascribe to Wilhelm in particular.

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

Austria didn't get the reply until after the deadline. The Austrian representative was deliberately given the run around and kept waiting in Germany until after the deadline and Austria declared war.

That's... not how that happened. At least not as far as I'm aware.

Serbia agreed to 9 out of the 10 demands in the Austrian ultimatum. Austria, which wanted the war anyway, used the refusal of the final demand (it being that Austria could essentially establish its own police force in Serbia) as pretext to declare war.

Kaiser Willie was away on his annual trip to Sweden at the time, and was actually pretty pissed at the Austrian course of action, so I don't believe Austria's declaration of war was forced by Germany.

Austria had every right to go to war with Serbia without negotiation. It chose to issue a conditional ultimatum which Serbia rejected. Rejecting nine out of ten demands in the ultimatum is a rejection of the ultimatum.

Serbia was the aggressor in WWI and responsible for the war. The second most responsible country was Russia for backing Serbia despite the fact that Serbia was obviously in the wrong and the war affected no important Russian interest.

[The East Marches II]

That's... not how that happened. At least not as far as I'm aware.

Serbia agreed to 9 out of the 10 demands in the Austrian ultimatum. Austria, which wanted the war anyway, used the refusal of the final demand (it being that Austria could essentially establish its own police force in Serbia) as pretext to declare war.

Kaiser Willie was away on his annual trip to Sweden at the time, and was actually pretty pissed at the Austrian course of action, so I don't believe Austria's declaration of war was forced by Germany.

Austria had every right to go to war with Serbia without negotiation. It chose to issue a conditional ultimatum which Serbia rejected. Rejecting nine out of ten demands in the ultimatum is a rejection of the ultimatum.

Serbia was the aggressor in WWI and responsible for the war. The second most responsible country was Russia for backing Serbia despite the fact that Serbia was obviously in the wrong and the war affected no important Russian interest.

Finally somebody gets it.

[Sanctissima]

That's... not how that happened. At least not as far as I'm aware.

Serbia agreed to 9 out of the 10 demands in the Austrian ultimatum. Austria, which wanted the war anyway, used the refusal of the final demand (it being that Austria could essentially establish its own police force in Serbia) as pretext to declare war.

Kaiser Willie was away on his annual trip to Sweden at the time, and was actually pretty pissed at the Austrian course of action, so I don't believe Austria's declaration of war was forced by Germany.

Plz read

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_Crisis


Wilhelm did indeed think war was pointless after he saw Serbia's reply, but his cabinet directly blocked attempts at reconciliation from getting to Austria based on Wilhelm's prior policy (which was war, he called Austria weak for even bothering with talks). Wilhelm was out of Germany on purpose to mask his involvement in starting the war (which was planned and set to go through by both Germany and Austria prior to the assassination); he figured this would make him look like his hands were tied rather than an agressor, keeping other powers from getting involved.

I hold Germany 100% responsible for WWI, however much blame you want to ascribe to Wilhelm in particular.

That's... not how that happened. At least not as far as I'm aware.

Serbia agreed to 9 out of the 10 demands in the Austrian ultimatum. Austria, which wanted the war anyway, used the refusal of the final demand (it being that Austria could essentially establish its own police force in Serbia) as pretext to declare war.

Kaiser Willie was away on his annual trip to Sweden at the time, and was actually pretty pissed at the Austrian course of action, so I don't believe Austria's declaration of war was forced by Germany.

Austria had every right to go to war with Serbia without negotiation. It chose to issue a conditional ultimatum which Serbia rejected. Rejecting nine out of ten demands in the ultimatum is a rejection of the ultimatum.

Serbia was the aggressor in WWI and responsible for the war. The second most responsible country was Russia for backing Serbia despite the fact that Serbia was obviously in the wrong and the war affected no important Russian interest.

>tfw, the Orthodox is blaming Germany and the Anglo is defending Austria.

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

Well, I'm not defending Germany!

Not many Anglos are anti-Austrian because Anglos don't tend to view Austria as a real actor with agency. In England, WWI was "obviously" just a war between Britain and Germany over who would be the biggest European kid and everything else was just a pretext.

This is base parochialism. I don't think the continental actors were really much motivated by Britain one way or the other.

[Sanctissima]

Well, I'm not defending Germany!

Not many Anglos are anti-Austrian because Anglos don't tend to view Austria as a real actor with agency. In England, WWI was "obviously" just a war between Britain and Germany over who would be the biggest European kid and everything else was just a pretext.

This is base parochialism. I don't think the continental actors were really much motivated by Britain one way or the other.

"Not many Anglos are anti-Austrian because Anglos don't tend to view Austria as a real actor with agency."

Poor fools, if only you knew the truth.

Protocols of the Elders of Osterreich.

[Taihei Tengoku]

There isn't evidence that the assassination of Franz Ferdinand was orchestrated by the Serbian government rather than those in the government. The ultimatum was issued to be rejected by the Serbs regardless (though the Russians persuaded them to capitulate as much as it could), because the elimination of FF ironically did away with one of the bigger figures in the dove party of the Austrian government.

Germany had its own motivations, which was the same one it started WW2 on: they knew that given enough time they would lose to bigger empires like Russia and their solution was to fight their way out by forcibly imposing a Berlin-centered Continental System on Europe/Eurasia.

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

There isn't evidence that the assassination of Franz Ferdinand was orchestrated by the Serbian government rather than those in the government. The ultimatum was issued to be rejected by the Serbs regardless (though the Russians persuaded them to capitulate as much as it could), because the elimination of FF ironically did away with one of the bigger figures in the dove party of the Austrian government.

Sure, the assassination was orchestrated by a QUANGO and no one was really sure who was controlling it (probably even the people who show FF didn't know). The problem being that a country full of QUANGOs that commit acts of war against neighbouring states is not really being governed. The Austrian CB against Serbia was pretty much the same as the American CB against Afghanistan. Does anyone dispute the latter? As for "issued to be rejected", I have no idea if this is actually somewhere written in some senior Austria's biography but the specific tenth demand that was rejected - Austrian police in Serbia - is clearly and logically connected to the event and doesn't seem trumped up at all: if Serbia can't enforce its laws against a group that attacked Austria supposedly against the government's wishes, Austria should do so.

Germany had its own motivations

Sure. None of Russia, Germany, France, or the UK DoWed over the justice of the Serbian cause. But the Serbian cause was still hilariously unjust and, if the British have an out in claiming to be defending Belgium, the Russians and French do not.

[The Parkus Empire]

That's... not how that happened. At least not as far as I'm aware.

Serbia agreed to 9 out of the 10 demands in the Austrian ultimatum. Austria, which wanted the war anyway, used the refusal of the final demand (it being that Austria could essentially establish its own police force in Serbia) as pretext to declare war.

Kaiser Willie was away on his annual trip to Sweden at the time, and was actually pretty pissed at the Austrian course of action, so I don't believe Austria's declaration of war was forced by Germany.

Austria had every right to go to war with Serbia without negotiation. It chose to issue a conditional ultimatum which Serbia rejected. Rejecting nine out of ten demands in the ultimatum is a rejection of the ultimatum.

Serbia was the aggressor in WWI and responsible for the war. The second most responsible country was Russia for backing Serbia despite the fact that Serbia was obviously in the wrong and the war affected no important Russian interest.

Austria was certainly entitled to what they got, but they wouldn't have started a world war if Germany didn't pressure them to the extreme.

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

For what it is worth their forcing a war was a good decision and probably the only one really open to them. It was widely believed that the Austro-Hungarian Empire would follow the decrepit Emperor Franz-Josef to the grave, that if anyone could save it, only Franz Ferdinand could, and he was now dead. The Austro-Hungarian Empire needed the legitimacy and prestige boost of a military victory and expansion if it was to survive at that point.

Which of course was known to the FF assassins and why they did it. They knew Austria would be forced to retaliate and they knew Russia would come in and they did not really care what happened to the rest of Europe.

Again these people are unspeakably evil to the point of comic book villainy and in a just world the British and Germans would have allied to invade Serbia and hang the lot of them.

[The East Marches II]

For what it is worth their forcing a war was a good decision and probably the only one really open to them. It was widely believed that the Austro-Hungarian Empire would follow the decrepit Emperor Franz-Josef to the grave, that if anyone could save it, only Franz Ferdinand could, and he was now dead. The Austro-Hungarian Empire needed the legitimacy and prestige boost of a military victory and expansion if it was to survive at that point.

Which of course was known to the FF assassins and why they did it. They knew Austria would be forced to retaliate and they knew Russia would come in and they did not really care what happened to the rest of Europe.

Again these people are unspeakably evil to the point of comic book villainy and in a just world the British and Germans would have allied to invade Serbia and hang the lot of them.

I agree.

[Taihei Tengoku]

For what it is worth their forcing a war was a good decision and probably the only one really open to them. It was widely believed that the Austro-Hungarian Empire would follow the decrepit Emperor Franz-Josef to the grave, that if anyone could save it, only Franz Ferdinand could, and he was now dead. The Austro-Hungarian Empire needed the legitimacy and prestige boost of a military victory and expansion if it was to survive at that point.

For the Austrians, perhaps. Hungary was willing to let the matter drop.

[The of Japan]

For what it is worth their forcing a war was a good decision and probably the only one really open to them. It was widely believed that the Austro-Hungarian Empire would follow the decrepit Emperor Franz-Josef to the grave, that if anyone could save it, only Franz Ferdinand could, and he was now dead. The Austro-Hungarian Empire needed the legitimacy and prestige boost of a military victory and expansion if it was to survive at that point.

For the Austrians, perhaps. Hungary was willing to let the matter drop.

that's why they only agreed if not a foot of Serbian land was annexed

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

For what it is worth their forcing a war was a good decision and probably the only one really open to them. It was widely believed that the Austro-Hungarian Empire would follow the decrepit Emperor Franz-Josef to the grave, that if anyone could save it, only Franz Ferdinand could, and he was now dead. The Austro-Hungarian Empire needed the legitimacy and prestige boost of a military victory and expansion if it was to survive at that point.

For the Austrians, perhaps. Hungary was willing to let the matter drop.

Since the emperor was an Austrian, there may be other reasons for that than calculation that it would best preserve the imperial system.

[The Parkus Empire]

My komboskini was made in Serbia. Also have a good Serbian friend who came to my baptism.

There is a story told by a Serbian monk: he asked Saint John of San Francisco if he should become a monk, and the former said, "No, absolutely not." Years later, after being tonsured, he ran into Saint John again, who beamed: the Serb was called to be a monk, but he told him not to because Serbs are rebellious and contrary.

[War Gears]

The Allied Powers winning WWI directly led to WWII.

To be honest, I think regardless of the outcome a second world war was inevitable.

At the very least, either way Japan's Imperial ambitions weren't exactly slowing down, and Italy won alongside the allies.

Entente treatment of Japan and Italy resembled a gang of frat boys sadistically pranking fellow members.

"Let's offer Italy numerous territorial concessions after the war and then not even give them Fiume."

[The East Marches II]

To be honest, I think regardless of the outcome a second world war was inevitable.

At the very least, either way Japan's Imperial ambitions weren't exactly slowing down, and Italy won alongside the allies.

Entente treatment of Japan and Italy resembled a gang of frat boys sadistically pranking fellow members.

"Let's offer Italy numerous territorial concessions after the war and then not even give them Fiume."

How battles of the Isonzo was it? :^)

[War Gears]

Entente treatment of Japan and Italy resembled a gang of frat boys sadistically pranking fellow members.

"Let's offer Italy numerous territorial concessions after the war and then not even give them Fiume."

How battles of the Isonzo was it? :^)

You're just mad you lost the Italo-Turkish war. :^)