Right Wing Discussion Thread IX: The Right Man's Burden

[Constantinopolis]

NOT ALL ORTHOBOOS.

Seriously, I just decided to drop by this thread to mention that UMN and Alexanderians seem to have a very particular dislike of France for some reason that I can't quite explain.

Quand à moi, j'aime la France et ses valeurs, bien qu'il soit vrai que l'Eglise en France n'est pas ce qu'elle était autrefois. Mais ce n'est pas une raison suffisante pour abandonner la fille ainée de l'Église occidentale! Vive l'Eglise, vive la Republique, et vive aussi l'Orthodoxie en France.

"A priest who is not a monarchist is not worthy to stand at the altar table. The priest who is a republican is always a man of poor faith. God himself anoints the monarch to be head of the kingdom, while the president is elected by the pride of the people. The king stays in power by implementing God’s commandments, while the president does so by pleasing those who rule. The king brings his faithful subjects to God, while the president takes them away from God."
- Metropolitan Vladimir of Kiev and Gallich

If real kings were actually the way he describes, then I would agree with him. However, they are not.

Metropolitan Vladimir is describing an extremely romanticized ideal king that almost never exists in the real world. It is not a valid argument to compare a non-existent ideal king with a realistic president and say that the former is better than the latter.

In reality, monarchy is a genetic lottery, with absolutely no way to guarantee the quality of the ruler, or his ideology, or his priorities, or anything about him. It's no better than deciding your country's leader by pulling names out of a hat. And to say that a king is "anointed by God" is about as accurate as to say that an elected president is the living embodiment of the Will of the People. That is to say, it's a romantic ideal that does have a certain connection to reality, but a very distant one.

[Germanic Templars]

You know, in hindsight, the Daesh were a good thing to come to Iraq as it helped Iraq's military. At least in my opinion.

[Aelex]

NOT ALL ORTHOBOOS.

Seriously, I just decided to drop by this thread to mention that UMN and Alexanderians seem to have a very particular dislike of France for some reason that I can't quite explain.

Quand à moi, j'aime la France et ses valeurs, bien qu'il soit vrai que l'Eglise en France n'est pas ce qu'elle était autrefois. Mais ce n'est pas une raison suffisante pour abandonner la fille ainée de l'Église occidentale! Vive l'Eglise, vive la Republique, et vive aussi l'Orthodoxie en France.

Not all indeed. ;^) I was responding to someone that clearly only searched to be insulting and ended up responding in kind, saying things I don't actually believe in by pure and stupid escalating reflexes.
I have great respect for the Orthodox church and was talking only out of annoyance tho that doesn't excuse what I said. Still, I hope you will accept my apologies, my friend.

[Napkiraly]

Regardless of anyone's opinion, "Cultural Marxism" is not a thing outside the imaginations of right-wing conspiracy theorists.

It exists, but it simply goes by the name of the Frankfurt School.

While influenced by Marxism, it also draws from a number of other figures and isn't quite Marxist. Doesn't stop it from being trash however.

[Austrasien]

Cultural Marxism describes an obviously real phenomenon - the lefts desire to wipe out western culture.

But it isn't a conspiracy, no cabal is giving them marching orders, and it certainly isn't a roundabout attempt to bring about communism. Hardly anyone cares about owning the means of production anymore. It is a spontaneous manifestation of their shared culture of white guilt, irrational xenophilia and secular Protestantism. Nobody ever needed to tell them to tear it all down. This is the logical conclusion of their worldview and utterly negative self-image.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Tbh, I think the right would benefit greatly from using at least Marxist analysis and methodology.

[Socialist Tera]

Tbh, I think the right would benefit greatly from using at least Marxist analysis and methodology.

They are more likely to use Hegelian dialectics to be honest.

[Napkiraly]

Certain far-left sorts are pro-Assad. I don't really know why. I've only seen it, I've not engaged with those people. Probably something about fighting US imperialism.

Assad is a Ba'athist. Ba'athism is a left-wing ideology. The bizarre thing is that right-wingers support him, not leftists.

Well some see him as being better than the fanatics that would take over, especially as it pertains to Syria's Christian population.

[Northern Davincia]

Tbh, I think the right would benefit greatly from using at least Marxist analysis and methodology.

A right-populist would thrive on Marxist analysis, and perhaps a theocrat as well. The rest would not benefit.

[Constantinopolis]

"Cultural Marxism" is an oxymoron. One of the main insights of Marxism is that material forces and the economic base of society are the things that shape culture. Not the other way around. Anyone who thinks that he can change society by focusing on cultural change, is by definition not a Marxist. Culture is the result of social forces, not their cause.

I don't like Western culture either, but, as a Marxist, I regard cultural problems as symptoms of the disease, not the disease itself. The disease itself is capitalism. Western culture is the way it is (ultra-individualistic, hedonistic, etc.) because of capitalism's influence on it. Without capitalism, it would change by itself and become more community-minded.

Cultural Marxism describes an obviously real phenomenon

Oh, it describes a real phenomenon, yes, but to call it "Marxist" is the right-wing equivalent of that thing some leftists do when they call every random dictator a "fascist". It's a case of "that word doesn't mean what you think it means".

Hardly anyone cares about owning the means of production anymore.

Because they are fools. The question of ownership over the means of production is the most important question in society - any society.

You want society to be a certain way? You must determine the type of property rights and ownership structure that will make society be that way. And then you must strive to implement that ownership structure. This is the secret to all radical social change, in any direction.

[Conserative Morality]

Maybe it's time for us liberal 'elitists' to become the enemy the rust belt and Midwest thinks we are anyway.

Instead of letting them fade into obscurity and tossing them token assistance in compromises, we should grind their noses into the dirt. Complete economic warfare. Destroy these people's livelihoods the way they've spent decades voting for our's to be destroyed. Best part is, we can do it while strengthening the national economy. All we have to do is push what's already the wave of the future - automation over worker's rights.

What do you think, RWDT, about this new vision of your enemy?

[United Muscovite Nations]

Maybe it's time for us liberal 'elitists' to become the enemy the rust belt and Midwest thinks we are anyway.

Instead of letting them fade into obscurity and tossing them token assistance in compromises, we should grind their noses into the dirt. Complete economic warfare. Destroy these people's livelihoods the way they've spent decades voting for our's to be destroyed. Best part is, we can do it while strengthening the national economy. All we have to do is push what's already the wave of the future - automation over worker's rights.

What do you think, RWDT, about this new vision of your enemy?

Gee, because that's not likely to cause political violence or anything.

Why do you hate working people?

Moreover, how have we been voting to destroy your livelihood?

[Conserative Morality]

Gee, because that's not likely to cause political violence or anything.

Why do you hate working people?

This is the kind of arrogance that makes me hate the Rust Belt and Midwest. "We're the only real working people"

Moreover, how have we been voting to destroy your livelihood?

"Fuck higher education, fuck infrastructure, fuck international affairs, fuck non-primary industry workers' rights, fuck etc etc"

[Washington Resistance Army]

What do you think, RWDT, about this new vision of your enemy?

I think they'll lose a lot more.

[Conserative Morality]

I think they'll lose a lot more.

That's what you lot say every time, though.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Gee, because that's not likely to cause political violence or anything.

Why do you hate working people?

This is the kind of arrogance that makes me hate the Rust Belt and Midwest. "We're the only real working people"

Moreover, how have we been voting to destroy your livelihood?

"Fuck higher education, fuck infrastructure, fuck international affairs, fuck non-primary industry workers' rights, fuck etc etc"

Many of us are in higher education and infrastructure, and are involved in international affairs.

And, again, what have we done to actually harm your economic sectors?

[Conserative Morality]

Many of us are in higher education and infrastructure,

Could've fooled me the way you lot vote.

and are involved in international affairs.

Then you obviously don't care about the continuation of your jobs, or the welfare of your country.

Or, more likely, the majority of you are dependent on a rapidly dying industry, at least insofar as employment is concerned, and vote in accordance with sustaining these dying industries as best you can.

And, again, what have we done to actually harm your economic sectors?

"What have we done to harm higher education, skilled labor, unskilled labor unionization, tourism, health care services, government employees, etc?"

Really? Really? Come back when you've paid attention to US politics for a few years.

[Sanctissima]

Maybe it's time for us liberal 'elitists' to become the enemy the rust belt and Midwest thinks we are anyway.

Instead of letting them fade into obscurity and tossing them token assistance in compromises, we should grind their noses into the dirt. Complete economic warfare. Destroy these people's livelihoods the way they've spent decades voting for our's to be destroyed. Best part is, we can do it while strengthening the national economy. All we have to do is push what's already the wave of the future - automation over worker's rights.

What do you think, RWDT, about this new vision of your enemy?

Then you lot can expect to never win a federal election again.

Ever.

You have to at least pretend like you care about the well-being of the plebs if you want their votes.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I think they'll lose a lot more.

That's what you lot say every time, though.

Yeah, and your side has been losing bigly for several years now. The Dems lost over a thousand seats under Obama and even managed to lose the presidency to some random TV star jackass who has never held office. By actively attacking people in the Midwest you might as well just dissolve the party because the GOP is going to win every single time.

[Conserative Morality]

Then you lot can expect to never win a federal election again.

Ever.

You have to at least pretend like you care about the well-being of the plebs if you want their votes.

I do care about the well-being of the common people. I'd be a fool not to - I am one of them.

I'm just done entertaining the notion that the Midwest and Rust Belt comprise 100% of Real America anymore, or that they can be persuaded to not vote against their own interests. If you can't join with 'em, beat 'em.

[Conserative Morality]

Yeah, and your side has been losing bigly for several years now. The Dems lost over a thousand seats under Obama and even managed to lose the presidency to some random TV star jackass who has never held office. By actively attacking people in the Midwest you might as well just dissolve the party because the GOP is going to win every single time.

Pretty sure you lot said the same thing about slavery, the New Deal, desegregation, and globalization.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Yeah, and your side has been losing bigly for several years now. The Dems lost over a thousand seats under Obama and even managed to lose the presidency to some random TV star jackass who has never held office. By actively attacking people in the Midwest you might as well just dissolve the party because the GOP is going to win every single time.

Pretty sure you lot said the same thing about slavery, the New Deal, desegregation, and globalization.

Oh I'm sure you have a lot of sources for that.

What is "you lot", anyways? It's not like there's really a consensus on political views in the RWDT.

[Conserative Morality]

Oh I'm sure you have a lot of sources for that.

If that's sarcasm, it's a poor issue to challenge. You really want me to show you the long history of people saying "THIS latest change will lose you elections FOREVER if you do it!"

What is "you lot", anyways? It's not like there's really a consensus on political views in the RWDT.

People opposed to the latest changes in the political alignment. It's not a coherent group so much as it is a post-hoc classification based on resistance to progress.

[Sanctissima]

Then you lot can expect to never win a federal election again.

Ever.

You have to at least pretend like you care about the well-being of the plebs if you want their votes.

I do care about the well-being of the common people. I'd be a fool not to - I am one of them.

I'm just done entertaining the notion that the Midwest and Rust Belt comprise 100% of Real America anymore, or that they can be persuaded to not vote against their own interests. If you can't join with 'em, beat 'em.

Then like I said, your party will continue to fare poorly during elections.

If what you're offering is eliminating their jobs with no immediate alternative for employment, you evidently cannot expect them to vote for you. So good luck ever beating the Republican domination of Congress.

[Austrasien]

Maybe it's time for us liberal 'elitists' to become the enemy the rust belt and Midwest thinks we are anyway.

Instead of letting them fade into obscurity and tossing them token assistance in compromises, we should grind their noses into the dirt. Complete economic warfare. Destroy these people's livelihoods the way they've spent decades voting for our's to be destroyed. Best part is, we can do it while strengthening the national economy. All we have to do is push what's already the wave of the future - automation over worker's rights.

What do you think, RWDT, about this new vision of your enemy?

wot in lump of labour

>he still believes the automation meme

fam US industrial capital is older than anytime since the depression. The sector has been starved of investment since at least 2008. Only on planet mainstream media can automated factories take jobs when investment in factory equipment like industrial robots is at historic lows - and has been since the great recession AKA during the entire "Obama economy". But I imagine you are thinking the robots built themselves or were built by plantoids from outer space or whatever.

In fact you must be from the mirror universe because the real problem is lack of investment in new capital and new skills holding back productivity and making US manufacturing uncompetitive. Your plan is fine but only because it would do more or less the exact opposite of what you imagine. Massively boosting capital expenditures in robots and other advanced industrial technology would boost productivity, attracting more business and investment back to the US and other advanced economies (who have similar problems to varying degrees), fostering beneficial ecosystems of production/design, bringing more business and investment and so on and so forth.