Right Wing Discussion Thread IX: The Right Man's Burden

[Conserative Morality]

How can you call yourself a Catholic while supporting the state that has effectively destroyed French Catholicism?

EDIT: Before you bullshit about how France is a Catholic country, let's look at some statistics:

Of SELF IDENTIFIED CATHOLICS:
>17% of French Catholics (who comprise 52% of the Catholic population) didn't believe in God. Among believers, most (79%) described God as a "force, energy, or spirit" and only 18% as a personal god.[31]

>> denies God agency as an individual being
>> complains about people seeing God as a force, energy, or spirit

???

[United Muscovite Nations]

How can you call yourself a Catholic while supporting the state that has effectively destroyed French Catholicism?

EDIT: Before you bullshit about how France is a Catholic country, let's look at some statistics:

Of SELF IDENTIFIED CATHOLICS:
>17% of French Catholics (who comprise 52% of the Catholic population) didn't believe in God. Among believers, most (79%) described God as a "force, energy, or spirit" and only 18% as a personal god.[31]

>> denies God agency as an individual being
>> complains about people seeing God as a force, energy, or spirit

???

I've done no such thing. Quit reading your own misinterpretations of yourself and others trying to get me tongue-tied. God is three persons in one-essence, the creator of all things visible and invisible, the the only begotten of the Father, and the Lord, the Giver of Life.

[Conserative Morality]

I've done no such thing. Quit reading your own misinterpretations of yourself and others trying to get me tongue-tied. God is three persons in one-essence, the creator of all things visible and invisible, the the only begotten of the Father, and the Lord, the Giver of Life.

We literally just had a conversation about this. Acting defensive doesn't change the contradiction.

[Aelex]

Except they don't. There are effectively no Christians in France.

Believing in God in some fashion is better than hating God entirely, which is what the French state does.

Being secular =/= hating God. And, you may prefer to be under Muslim rule as I'm sure your ilk probably have developed some form of stockholm syndrome after all those centuries of Islamic Domination but I'd rather have a State that doesn't care at all about Religion than one that follow a false faith.

If the French were to begin outlawing Christian practice, how long would it take for you to declare the French state being in the wrong?

Because it would be against the principle of Laïcité which is to simply keep Religion out of the State and the State out of Religion?

Or are you so blinded by your worship of blood & soil that you only tangentially care for your religion?

Once more, my Faith is to the Church, my Loyalty to the Fatherland. There is no conflict at all, there.

[Diopolis]

It's like a certain Monarchist wet dream coming true!

We will start a monarchy, through democracy :^)

The real King of France is not a Le Pen. France does not need another Bonaparte.

It's weird. The text description of your link and the page you've linked to are talking about different people.

[The Alexanderians]

I mean, I'm not even sure why you're bringing them up apart from that dated meme of "hur dur u just hate brownies" but well, given the rest of your reflection, it seems you're assuming that everyone share your own racism. :^)

Out of that pile of shit this stood out to me, bit of a topic shift but oh well.
Are you trying to claim to me that France is not xenophobic? And that I in fact am?

Well given we're only monitoring the extremists ones,

If you say so, I'm interested to know what France, and by extension you, considers "extremist".

We monitor sects indeed. We're far from being the only country to do that (Russia just did the right move by banning one of the aforementioned sect), and that's a good thing.

You can not claim to me that France has equality and freedom of religion in mind when you do this. You bring up Russia for some reason, I can only guess you are assuming my motivations (you also assume :^) tells me anything except you think your own argument is shit posting...). The fact is, without assuming which party is right or wrong, France makes claims to being a bastion of human rights hell its in the motto. Then behaves in this manner? You don't think that's extreme hypocrisy? It's not a good thing to be that bold faced in a lie sorry.

Oh, you actually really think you have a gotcha there? That's so cute!
Sorry, mon petit, but if I didn't respond to that "point" of your, it's not because it was good but because it was shit. Kings have been seizing Church properties in Europe since way before the République existed and for the very same reason she did.
Anyway, it seems that centuries of submission to the Muslims majorly influenced the theology of you Orthoboos but I, unlike you it seems, remember Jésus' commend to "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's"; my Faith is to the Church and my Loyalty to my Fatherland. :^)

Who is "she"?
Anyway you are dodging the important question with a whataboutism. Do you think unilateral theft of church land was a good or bad thing? You can not answer in the uncertain or tertiary this is "yes, the state is better" or "no my loyalty is to the church I espouse". You seem to be under the impression that out right theft of church property is "rendering on to ceaser" at best if you want to play with words that action is "render unto ceaser what is God's" those churches and church lands did not belong to France it was a perverse version of eminent domain. All of this is making it increasingly apparent you are not actually Catholic and just using the label while embracing the increasingly misplaced nationalism that France is generating. My loyalty may belong to my nation but that will change real quick if it took up oppressing, distorting, and suppressing my faith.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand?

So you prove even more that you are not actually Catholic and I'm beginning to suspect you are a "cultural Christian". You are Catholic because France is stereotypically labeled as Catholic (or "historically") You take no issue with French Secularism which is in direct opposition to your own supposed faith. So I can gather you are either blind to whats going on or willfully ignorant just to be loyal to a nation. Keep in mind you can still be loyal to a nation and criticize it.

[United Muscovite Nations]

I've done no such thing. Quit reading your own misinterpretations of yourself and others trying to get me tongue-tied. God is three persons in one-essence, the creator of all things visible and invisible, the the only begotten of the Father, and the Lord, the Giver of Life.

We literally just had a conversation about this. Acting defensive doesn't change the contradiction.

Find where I said "God does not possess agency", and then we can talk.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Except they don't. There are effectively no Christians in France.

Believing in God in some fashion is better than hating God entirely, which is what the French state does.

Being secular =/= hating God. And, you may prefer to be under Muslim rule as I'm sure your ilk probably have developed some form of stockholm syndrome after all those centuries of Islamic Domination but I'd rather have a State that doesn't care at all about Religion than one that follow a false faith.

If the French were to begin outlawing Christian practice, how long would it take for you to declare the French state being in the wrong?

Because it would be against the principle of Laïcité which is to simply keep Religion out of the State and the State out of Religion?

Or are you so blinded by your worship of blood & soil that you only tangentially care for your religion?

Once more, my Faith is to the Church, my Loyalty to the Fatherland. There is no conflict at all, there.

If it is against the principles of Laicite, then why does the state in France routinely tear down Churches, and control most church properties?

[The Alexanderians]

Being secular =/= hating God. And, you may prefer to be under Muslim rule as I'm sure your ilk probably have developed some form of stockholm syndrome after all those centuries of Islamic Domination but I'd rather have a State that doesn't care at all about Religion than one that follow a false faith.

Because it would be against the principle of Laïcité which is to simply keep Religion out of the State and the State out of Religion?

Once more, my Faith is to the Church, my Loyalty to the Fatherland. There is no conflict at all, there.

If it is against the principles of Laicite, then why does the state in France routinely tear down Churches, and control most church properties?

Just goes to show Laicite is secularism without the idea of "separation of church and state".

[Aelex]

Out of that pile of shit this stood out to me, bit of a topic shift but oh well.
Are you trying to claim to me that France is not xenophobic? And that I in fact am?

I wouldn't be as kind in describing your own response but yes, France is not xenophobic indeed and you yourself seems to be a little too overeager to use race tropes not to be considered as so. :^)

If you say so, I'm interested to know what France, and by extension you, considers "extremist".

Anyone with the potential of causing damages to the country or people for the sake of his ideological beliefs.

You can not claim to me that France has equality and freedom of religion in mind when you do this. You bring up Russia for some reason, I can only guess you are assuming my motivations (you also assume :^) tells me anything except you think your own argument is shit posting...). The fact is, without assuming which party is right or wrong, France makes claims to being a bastion of human rights hell its in the motto. Then behaves in this manner? You don't think that's extreme hypocrisy? It's not a good thing to be that bold faced in a lie sorry.

Yes, I very much can. Sects aren't religions. They're cults. That's why they're banned. And I'm merely bringing up Russia because it's a good example, that's all. You're the one assuming motivations here. :^)
And no hypocrisy here. Banning sects and monitoring extremists is merely a way to ensure that neither can hurt people.

Who is "she"?

Pls no, we had that dumb shit already on the French election thread. We've been using female pronouns to refer to countries since forever, get freaking over it.

Anyway you are dodging the important question with a whataboutism. Do you think unilateral theft of church land was a good or bad thing? You can not answer in the uncertain or tertiary this is "yes, the state is better" or "no my loyalty is to the church I espouse". You seem to be under the impression that out right theft of church property is "rendering on to ceaser" at best if you want to play with words that action is "render unto ceaser what is God's" those churches and church lands did not belong to France it was a perverse version of eminent domain.

>point out that Kings had been confiscating Church's land in Europe on the motive that they ruled over the temporal while the Church did over the spiritual since forever without anyone caring and that it was literally the same thing but did by a Republic instead
>"W-why are you dodging the question with a whataboutism? You tots need to give a yes or no answer despite there being literally no need to do so!"
Yeah lol no.

All of this is making it increasingly apparent you are not actually Catholic and just using the label while embracing the increasingly misplaced nationalism that France is generating. My loyalty may belong to my nation but that will change real quick if it took up oppressing, distorting, and suppressing my faith.
So you prove even more that you are not actually Catholic and I'm beginning to suspect you are a "cultural Christian". You are Catholic because France is stereotypically labeled as Catholic (or "historically")

"U no real catholic because you don't hate your own country!" Yeah, yeah. I'd sooner take that "you're no true christian!" from an Anglican or even a Mormon than from an Orthodox of all people.
If arguing about how "[you] must be a cultural christian!!!1!1!" makes you feel better about yourself because you somehow simply can't fathom how someone manage to conciliate loyalty to his country and faith to his church then feel free to continue but know you're convincing no one.
My faith is true and I'm true to my faith, I care little about you whinningly questioning it.

You take no issue with French Secularism which is in direct opposition to your own supposed faith. So I can gather you are either blind to whats going on or willfully ignorant just to be loyal to a nation. Keep in mind you can still be loyal to a nation and criticize it.

Why should I take issue with my State recognizing no religion? How is it standing against my faith in any way? Once more, I think that Mahomet might have influenced your theology a little too much for Jésus didn't asked us Christians to go around toppling States and replacing them by Christians ones but to : "[...] obey the government rulers. Everyone who rules was given the power to rule by God. And all those who rule now were given that power by God.".

[United Muscovite Nations]

Out of that pile of shit this stood out to me, bit of a topic shift but oh well.
Are you trying to claim to me that France is not xenophobic? And that I in fact am?

I wouldn't be as kind in describing your own response but yes, France is not xenophobic indeed and you yourself seems to be a little too overeager to use race tropes not to be considered as so. :^)

If you say so, I'm interested to know what France, and by extension you, considers "extremist".

Anyone with the potential of causing damages to the country or people for the sake of his ideological beliefs.

You can not claim to me that France has equality and freedom of religion in mind when you do this. You bring up Russia for some reason, I can only guess you are assuming my motivations (you also assume :^) tells me anything except you think your own argument is shit posting...). The fact is, without assuming which party is right or wrong, France makes claims to being a bastion of human rights hell its in the motto. Then behaves in this manner? You don't think that's extreme hypocrisy? It's not a good thing to be that bold faced in a lie sorry.

Yes, I very much can. Sects aren't religions. They're cults. That's why they're banned. And I'm merely bringing up Russia because it's a good example, that's all. You're the one assuming motivations here. :^)
And no hypocrisy here. Banning sects and monitoring extremists is merely a way to ensure that neither can hurt people.

Who is "she"?

Pls no, we had that dumb shit already on the French election thread. We've been using female pronouns to refer to countries since forever, get freaking over it.

Anyway you are dodging the important question with a whataboutism. Do you think unilateral theft of church land was a good or bad thing? You can not answer in the uncertain or tertiary this is "yes, the state is better" or "no my loyalty is to the church I espouse". You seem to be under the impression that out right theft of church property is "rendering on to ceaser" at best if you want to play with words that action is "render unto ceaser what is God's" those churches and church lands did not belong to France it was a perverse version of eminent domain.

>point out that Kings had been confiscating Church's land in Europe on the motive that they ruled over the temporal while the Church did over the spiritual since forever without anyone caring and that it was literally the same thing but did by a Republic instead
>"W-why are you dodging the question with a whataboutism? You tots need to give a yes or no answer despite there being literally no need to do so!"
Yeah lol no.

All of this is making it increasingly apparent you are not actually Catholic and just using the label while embracing the increasingly misplaced nationalism that France is generating. My loyalty may belong to my nation but that will change real quick if it took up oppressing, distorting, and suppressing my faith.
So you prove even more that you are not actually Catholic and I'm beginning to suspect you are a "cultural Christian". You are Catholic because France is stereotypically labeled as Catholic (or "historically")

"U no real catholic because you don't hate your own country!" Yeah, yeah. I'd sooner take that "you're no true christian!" from an Anglican or even a Mormon than from an Orthodox of all people.
If arguing about how "[you] must be a cultural christian!!!1!1!" makes you feel better about yourself because you somehow simply can't fathom how someone manage to conciliate loyalty to his country and faith to his church then feel free to continue but know you're convincing no one.
My faith is true and I'm true to my faith, I care little about you whinningly questioning it.

You take no issue with French Secularism which is in direct opposition to your own supposed faith. So I can gather you are either blind to whats going on or willfully ignorant just to be loyal to a nation. Keep in mind you can still be loyal to a nation and criticize it.

Why should I take issue with my State recognizing no religion? How is it standing against my faith in any way? Once more, I think that Mahomet might have influenced your theology a little too much for Jésus didn't asked us Christians to go around toppling States and replacing them by Christians ones but to : "[...] obey the government rulers. Everyone who rules was given the power to rule by God. And all those who rule now were given that power by God.".

So, then, surely you think that it was wrong to overthrow the Roi, wrong to overthrow the Ottomans, wrong to drive the Muslims out of Spain, etc. etc.?

[FelrikTheDeleted]

The best king is dead King :^)

Or Assad.

Left Wing Discussion Thread is down the hall and to the left.

Let's facade the facts, they come here because even lefties hate the LWDT. :^)

[Dumb Ideologies]

Left Wing Discussion Thread is down the hall and to the left.

Let's facade the facts, they come here because even lefties hate the LWDT. :^)

You're not wrong.

[The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord]

Left Wing Discussion Thread is down the hall and to the left.

Let's facade the facts, they come here because even lefties hate the LWDT. :^)

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Okay, now that that's resolved, it's my job to restart the heart of this thread.

In your opinion, are "cultural Marxism" and "degeneracy" real threats, and if so, how would you combat them?

[Austrasien]

Okay, now that that's resolved, it's my job to restart the heart of this thread.

In your opinion, are "cultural Marxism" and "degeneracy" real threats, and if so, how would you combat them?

No. The real threats, in order:

• Sub-replacement fertility
• Mass Islamic immigration in particular
• Mass immigration in general

Cultural Marxism and moral decline (not that they are any different!) are like HIV. They weaken the body politic. These are the real killers.

[Conscentia]

[...] In your opinion, are "cultural Marxism" and "degeneracy" real threats, and if so, how would you combat them?

Regardless of anyone's opinion, "Cultural Marxism" is not a thing outside the imaginations of right-wing conspiracy theorists.

[Hakons]

SNIP

Aelex, secularism is a general harm to Christianity. It was established with good intentions, to stop interdenominational fights. Religious wars between Protestants and Catholics had ripped through Europe. It is important to note that people advocating for secularism were almost all Christians, with a few theists mixed in. This suggests secularism was meant for freedom of Christian religion, particularly since Christianity was synonymous with Europe until the 20th century. Of course, secularist laws apply to all religions. Secularism in its modern form has been taken to an extreme. Many people view that secularism means censoring public religious sentiment, but that is blatantly false and a thinly veiled attempt of turning state secularism into state atheism.

I also think you should put Christianity above the state. What happens when the government goes against your faith? Obviously, faith is eternal and more important. I was really passionate in the 2016 American Presidential Election. I have since realized I was focusing too much on the shifting politics of our time and not giving enough time to honoring God and learning more about Christianity. We cannot focus too much on this world, since that will only lead to anger and sin.

Truly, I think state sponsored religion is the way to go. Tax breaks should be given to those that regularly attend a religious service to encourage religious observance. Obviously, this would include all credible religions.

[Northern Davincia]

[...] In your opinion, are "cultural Marxism" and "degeneracy" real threats, and if so, how would you combat them?

Regardless of anyone's opinion, "Cultural Marxism" is not a thing outside the imaginations of right-wing conspiracy theorists.

It exists, but it simply goes by the name of the Frankfurt School.

[Torsiedelle]

Let's facade the facts, they come here because even lefties hate the LWDT. :^)

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Okay, now that that's resolved, it's my job to restart the heart of this thread.

In your opinion, are "cultural Marxism" and "degeneracy" real threats, and if so, how would you combat them?

Freikorps. *nods*

[Austrasien]

Obviously, this would include all credible religions.

What is this, multiculturalism?

[Hakons]

Obviously, this would include all credible religions.

What is this, multiculturalism?

Ok, you convinced me. Any ideas on how to start an inquisition in a religiously weak modern nation?

[Conscentia]

Regardless of anyone's opinion, "Cultural Marxism" is not a thing outside the imaginations of right-wing conspiracy theorists.

It exists, but it simply goes by the name of the Frankfurt School.

Lel.

[Austrasien]

Ok, you convinced me. Any ideas on how to start an inquisition in a religiously weak modern nation?

This is the lamest false dichotomy I've heard in at least an hour.

At least.

There is absolutely no reason to promote all religions, or even all "worthy" religions. Promote the religion of the nation, suppress hostile religions (like Islam), ignore the rest. France does not need to promote or repress Protestantism. Denmark does not need to promote or repress Catholicism.

[Constantinopolis]

Anyway, it seems that centuries of submission to the Muslims majorly influenced the theology of you Orthoboos but I, unlike you it seems, remember Jésus' commend to "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's"; my Faith is to the Church and my Loyalty to my Fatherland. :^)

NOT ALL ORTHOBOOS.

Seriously, I just decided to drop by this thread to mention that UMN and Alexanderians seem to have a very particular dislike of France for some reason that I can't quite explain.

Quand à moi, j'aime la France et ses valeurs, bien qu'il soit vrai que l'Eglise en France n'est pas ce qu'elle était autrefois. Mais ce n'est pas une raison suffisante pour abandonner la fille ainée de l'Église occidentale! Vive l'Eglise, vive la Republique, et vive aussi l'Orthodoxie en France.

[Old Tyrannia]

Ok, you convinced me. Any ideas on how to start an inquisition in a religiously weak modern nation?

This is the lamest false dichotomy I've heard in at least an hour.

At least.

There is absolutely no reason to promote all religions, or even all "worthy" religions. Promote the religion of the nation, suppress hostile religions (like Islam), ignore the rest. France does not need to promote or repress Protestantism. Denmark does not need to promote or repress Catholicism.

I disagree. If Protestant countries are going to repress Islam, there's no reason why they shouldn't also repress Catholicism. Catholics have a history of hostility to the British Crown much longer than that of Muslims. Orthodoxy is generally too small in the West to be worth repressing, but I do think that Orthodox Christians should be placed under close scrutiny, especially those affiliated with the Russian Orthodox Church. The loyalty of anyone who voluntarily chooses to affiliate with the national church of a hostile country should be considered highly suspect in my opinion.

Anyway, it seems that centuries of submission to the Muslims majorly influenced the theology of you Orthoboos but I, unlike you it seems, remember Jésus' commend to "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's"; my Faith is to the Church and my Loyalty to my Fatherland. :^)

NOT ALL ORTHOBOOS.

Seriously, I just decided to drop by this thread to mention that UMN and Alexanderians seem to have a very particular dislike of France for some reason that I can't quite explain.

Quand à moi, j'aime la France et ses valeurs, bien qu'il soit vrai que l'Eglise en France n'est pas ce qu'elle était autrefois. Mais ce n'est pas une raison suffisante pour abandonner la fille ainée de l'Église occidentale! Vive l'Eglise, vive la Republique, et vive aussi l'Orthodoxie en France.

"A priest who is not a monarchist is not worthy to stand at the altar table. The priest who is a republican is always a man of poor faith. God himself anoints the monarch to be head of the kingdom, while the president is elected by the pride of the people. The king stays in power by implementing God’s commandments, while the president does so by pleasing those who rule. The king brings his faithful subjects to God, while the president takes them away from God."
- Metropolitan Vladimir of Kiev and Gallich