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Right Wing Discussion Thread IX: The Right Man's Burden

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Was the Reformation a good thing?

1 - Yes.
151
52%
2 - Neutral.
76
26%
3 - No.
66
23%
 
Total votes : 293

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United Muscovite Nations
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16461
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:42 pm

Luminesa wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:I seem to recall you pretty directly insulting her with words that shouldn't be repeated on the Abrahamic skype chat.

Not really part of the convo itself, but thank you. My concern was more with the lack of self-awareness regarding his complaints against Catholicism and Orthodoxy.

It's more that he always plays the innocent victim who we all misconstrue, when the reality is that he consistently insults people, and that's why he gets kicked out of every online community he's ever been in, so he just blames other people for being too judgemental.
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts Eastern Orthodox Christian. Christian Anarchist and Monarchist. Supporter of Pan-Arabism.
Even the apologists of industrialism have been obliged to admit that some economic evils follow in the wake of the machines. These are such as overproduction, unemployment, and a growing inequality in the distribution of wealth. But the remedies proposed by the apologists are always homeopathic. They expect the evils to disappear when we have bigger and better machines, and more of them. Their remedial programs, therefore, look forward to more industrialism.
Pro and Anti: https://www.nationstates.net/nation=uni ... id=1166847

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The Parkus Empire
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Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:43 pm

-Jochistan- wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:I am not so concerned about secular same sex marriage if that sort of thing is what you mean. Though we shouldn't chide other countries for not having it.

Well that's good. Not necessarily asking for the acts to be accepted as non sinful even.

Just that homosexuals and trans people aren't viewed as bad people that need to be suppressed in some way.


Orthodox traditionalists view themselves as bad, and everyone else as saved. You don't know if that transsexual will wind in heaven while you're in hell, so you better show love. Then if they wind up in heaven, their prayers can save you from God's wrath.
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Proctopeo
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Posts: 7849
Founded: Sep 26, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Proctopeo » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:47 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
-Jochistan- wrote:Well that's not what I'm fucking saying.

I'm saying that Traditionalist Christians are elitist and sectarian. Focusing on the Catholic and Orthodox Churches in particular.

I never extended it to all Christians. I never even directed it at you. So you can stop being insanely defensive for no reason.


What you mean is we aren't open to modernism in our faith. Which is true. Although calling traditionalism "elitist" is not necessarily apt.

Generally speaking, I assume most religions prior to the modern era have some resistance to modernism.
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Crockerland wrote:Yes, we are aware, the Israelis protect their civilians with weapons while the Palestinians protect their weapons with civilians.

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-Jochistan-
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Posts: 255
Founded: Oct 23, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby -Jochistan- » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:49 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
-Jochistan- wrote:Well that's not what I'm fucking saying.

I'm saying that Traditionalist Christians are elitist and sectarian. Focusing on the Catholic and Orthodox Churches in particular.

I never extended it to all Christians. I never even directed it at you. So you can stop being insanely defensive for no reason.

I seem to recall you pretty directly insulting her with words that shouldn't be repeated on the Abrahamic skype chat.

I was very drunk and pissed about something else.

I already apologized profusely for that, it was irresponsible and needlessly cruel.
Last edited by -Jochistan- on Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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United Muscovite Nations
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16461
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:07 pm

-Jochistan- wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:I seem to recall you pretty directly insulting her with words that shouldn't be repeated on the Abrahamic skype chat.

I was very drunk and pissed about something else.

I already apologized profusely for that, it was irresponsible and needlessly cruel.

And that's to your credit, but lack of civility is a long-standing pattern of behavior for you. You used to brag when we first met about how you loved pushing people's buttons to see how mad you could make them before they would ban you.
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts Eastern Orthodox Christian. Christian Anarchist and Monarchist. Supporter of Pan-Arabism.
Even the apologists of industrialism have been obliged to admit that some economic evils follow in the wake of the machines. These are such as overproduction, unemployment, and a growing inequality in the distribution of wealth. But the remedies proposed by the apologists are always homeopathic. They expect the evils to disappear when we have bigger and better machines, and more of them. Their remedial programs, therefore, look forward to more industrialism.
Pro and Anti: https://www.nationstates.net/nation=uni ... id=1166847

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War Gears
Minister
 
Posts: 2473
Founded: Jul 02, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby War Gears » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:10 pm

Luminesa wrote:
-Jochistan- wrote:>Conservatives using the work of a Neo Vedantist Progressive to attack Religious Progressives
Lol

> Using terms like “Neo-Vedantist” which most people don’t know or understand.
> Accuse Catholics and Orthodox of being “elitist”.

Okay. Sure.


"Neo-Vedantist" is literally just the name of a religion. There's nothing particularly esoteric or elitist about knowing it's name.
Parasparopagraho Jīvānām.

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War Gears
Minister
 
Posts: 2473
Founded: Jul 02, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby War Gears » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:14 pm

-Jochistan- wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:
What you mean is we aren't open to modernism in our faith. Which is true. Although calling traditionalism "elitist" is not necessarily apt.

The view that modernism in itself is bad is understandable. I myself subscribed to that point of view. And still believe that modernism has brought with it harmful qualities and modernity as a whole is awful.

But distancing oneself from it so much that you start wanting to actually go back in time to the idealized vision of Medieval Europe is a bit much.


The Futurists were pretty rad though.
Parasparopagraho Jīvānām.

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Luminesa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 51272
Founded: Dec 09, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Luminesa » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:16 pm

War Gears wrote:
Luminesa wrote:> Using terms like “Neo-Vedantist” which most people don’t know or understand.
> Accuse Catholics and Orthodox of being “elitist”.

Okay. Sure.


"Neo-Vedantist" is literally just the name of a religion. There's nothing particularly esoteric or elitist about knowing it's name.

If he had just said “Neo-Hindu” that would have been enough. I mean, I’m not stupid, I just didn’t know what he was talking about.
Catholic, pro-life, and proud of it. I prefer my debates on religion, politics, and sports with some coffee and a little Aquinas and G.K. CHESTERTON here and there. Not that I need the coffee, but you know... :3

So apparently I am an ENFP!

Unofficial #1 fan of the Who Dat Nation.
"I'm just a singer of simple songs, I'm not a real political man. I watch CNN, but I'm not sure I can tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran. But I know Jesus, and I talk to God, and I remember this from when I was young:
faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
-Alan Jackson

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War Gears
Minister
 
Posts: 2473
Founded: Jul 02, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby War Gears » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:18 pm

Luminesa wrote:
War Gears wrote:
"Neo-Vedantist" is literally just the name of a religion. There's nothing particularly esoteric or elitist about knowing it's name.

If he had just said “Neo-Hindu” that would have been enough. I mean, I’m not stupid, I just didn’t know what he was talking about.


"Neo-Hindu" would not be particularly accurate and would leave room for confusion. Hare Krishna could be considered "Neo-Hindu," and they hate everything related to Vedanta. So Jochi was accurate to call it "Neo-Vedanta." it's not a matter of anyone being stupid, he's just being specific.
Parasparopagraho Jīvānām.

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The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:20 pm

War Gears wrote:
-Jochistan- wrote:The view that modernism in itself is bad is understandable. I myself subscribed to that point of view. And still believe that modernism has brought with it harmful qualities and modernity as a whole is awful.

But distancing oneself from it so much that you start wanting to actually go back in time to the idealized vision of Medieval Europe is a bit much.


The Futurists were pretty rad though.

Futurism is the most evil, anti human movement in art to this date.
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

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Luminesa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 51272
Founded: Dec 09, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Luminesa » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:21 pm

War Gears wrote:
Luminesa wrote:If he had just said “Neo-Hindu” that would have been enough. I mean, I’m not stupid, I just didn’t know what he was talking about.


"Neo-Hindu" would not be particularly accurate and would leave room for confusion. Hare Krishna could be considered "Neo-Hindu," and they hate everything related to Vedanta. So Jochi was accurate to call it "Neo-Vedanta." it's not a matter of anyone being stupid, he's just being specific.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh. I see. Okay. Well, thank you for the explanation.
Catholic, pro-life, and proud of it. I prefer my debates on religion, politics, and sports with some coffee and a little Aquinas and G.K. CHESTERTON here and there. Not that I need the coffee, but you know... :3

So apparently I am an ENFP!

Unofficial #1 fan of the Who Dat Nation.
"I'm just a singer of simple songs, I'm not a real political man. I watch CNN, but I'm not sure I can tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran. But I know Jesus, and I talk to God, and I remember this from when I was young:
faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
-Alan Jackson

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Herskerstad
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10259
Founded: Dec 14, 2009
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Herskerstad » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:23 pm

Putting up a delicious new thread.
Although the stars do not speak, even in being silent they cry out. - John Calvin

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Luminesa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 51272
Founded: Dec 09, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Luminesa » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:25 pm

Herskerstad wrote:Putting up a delicious new thread.

Didja post the link yet?
Catholic, pro-life, and proud of it. I prefer my debates on religion, politics, and sports with some coffee and a little Aquinas and G.K. CHESTERTON here and there. Not that I need the coffee, but you know... :3

So apparently I am an ENFP!

Unofficial #1 fan of the Who Dat Nation.
"I'm just a singer of simple songs, I'm not a real political man. I watch CNN, but I'm not sure I can tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran. But I know Jesus, and I talk to God, and I remember this from when I was young:
faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
-Alan Jackson

User avatar
Herskerstad
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10259
Founded: Dec 14, 2009
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Herskerstad » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:26 pm

Luminesa wrote:
Herskerstad wrote:Putting up a delicious new thread.

Didja post the link yet?


Just making the final few preperations.
Although the stars do not speak, even in being silent they cry out. - John Calvin

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War Gears
Minister
 
Posts: 2473
Founded: Jul 02, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby War Gears » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:27 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
War Gears wrote:
The Futurists were pretty rad though.

Futurism is the most evil, anti human movement in art to this date.


Yes, yes, I don't care.

Our mind, which is the supreme manifestation of organized living matter, accompanies matter itself in all its transformations, preserving in its new forms the sensations of its past and the subtle vibrations of the energy previously expended. The divinity and individual continuity of the willful, all-powerful mind must be externalized in order to change the world. That is the only religion.
Parasparopagraho Jīvānām.

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-Jochistan-
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Posts: 255
Founded: Oct 23, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby -Jochistan- » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:28 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
-Jochistan- wrote:I was very drunk and pissed about something else.

I already apologized profusely for that, it was irresponsible and needlessly cruel.

And that's to your credit, but lack of civility is a long-standing pattern of behavior for you. You used to brag when we first met about how you loved pushing people's buttons to see how mad you could make them before they would ban you.

I still like doing that haha

But I do normally have standards and only mess with ultraliberals and hard right zealots.
Then I was just drunk, confused and pissed off. It was not a good time.
Last edited by -Jochistan- on Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Luminesa
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Posts: 51272
Founded: Dec 09, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Luminesa » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:29 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
-Jochistan- wrote:I was very drunk and pissed about something else.

I already apologized profusely for that, it was irresponsible and needlessly cruel.

And that's to your credit, but lack of civility is a long-standing pattern of behavior for you. You used to brag when we first met about how you loved pushing people's buttons to see how mad you could make them before they would ban you.

Image
Catholic, pro-life, and proud of it. I prefer my debates on religion, politics, and sports with some coffee and a little Aquinas and G.K. CHESTERTON here and there. Not that I need the coffee, but you know... :3

So apparently I am an ENFP!

Unofficial #1 fan of the Who Dat Nation.
"I'm just a singer of simple songs, I'm not a real political man. I watch CNN, but I'm not sure I can tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran. But I know Jesus, and I talk to God, and I remember this from when I was young:
faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
-Alan Jackson

User avatar
The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:29 pm

War Gears wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Futurism is the most evil, anti human movement in art to this date.


Yes, yes, I don't care.

Our mind, which is the supreme manifestation of organized living matter, accompanies matter itself in all its transformations, preserving in its new forms the sensations of its past and the subtle vibrations of the energy previously expended. The divinity and individual continuity of the willful, all-powerful mind must be externalized in order to change the world. That is the only religion.

Little surprise egoism and fascism were their defining ideologies.
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

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-Jochistan-
Envoy
 
Posts: 255
Founded: Oct 23, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby -Jochistan- » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:29 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
War Gears wrote:
The Futurists were pretty rad though.

Futurism is the most evil, anti human movement in art to this date.

I don't mind it.

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Luminesa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 51272
Founded: Dec 09, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Luminesa » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:30 pm

-Jochistan- wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:And that's to your credit, but lack of civility is a long-standing pattern of behavior for you. You used to brag when we first met about how you loved pushing people's buttons to see how mad you could make them before they would ban you.

I still like doing that haha

But I do normally have standards and only mess with ultraliberals and hard right zealots.
Then I was just drunk, confused and pissed off. It was not a good time.

Fantastic.
Catholic, pro-life, and proud of it. I prefer my debates on religion, politics, and sports with some coffee and a little Aquinas and G.K. CHESTERTON here and there. Not that I need the coffee, but you know... :3

So apparently I am an ENFP!

Unofficial #1 fan of the Who Dat Nation.
"I'm just a singer of simple songs, I'm not a real political man. I watch CNN, but I'm not sure I can tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran. But I know Jesus, and I talk to God, and I remember this from when I was young:
faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
-Alan Jackson

User avatar
The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:30 pm

-Jochistan- wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Futurism is the most evil, anti human movement in art to this date.

I don't mind it.

Then you probably attach no moral value to art.
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

User avatar
Herskerstad
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10259
Founded: Dec 14, 2009
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Herskerstad » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:32 pm

Although the stars do not speak, even in being silent they cry out. - John Calvin

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-Jochistan-
Envoy
 
Posts: 255
Founded: Oct 23, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby -Jochistan- » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:33 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
-Jochistan- wrote:I don't mind it.

Then you probably attach no moral value to art.

Not all the time, no.
I have boundaries for what I can tolerate.

But sometimes you have to drop your sentimentalism when admiring something.
Last edited by -Jochistan- on Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Founding Fatherland
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Posts: 295
Founded: Oct 12, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The Founding Fatherland » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:34 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
-Jochistan- wrote:I don't mind it.

Then you probably attach no moral value to art.


"Look mommy, boobies!"

"TIMMY, NO! *screeching*"
Everything Within the State
Nothing Outside the State
Nothing Against the State
American Fascist & Orthodox Christian

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War Gears
Minister
 
Posts: 2473
Founded: Jul 02, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby War Gears » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:34 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
War Gears wrote:
Yes, yes, I don't care.


Little surprise egoism and fascism were their defining ideologies.


Neither of those things are particularly evil, just wrong.
Parasparopagraho Jīvānām.

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