>Conservatives using the work of a Neo Vedantist Progressive to attack Religious Progressives
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by -Jochistan- » Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:55 pm
by The Parkus Empire » Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:56 pm
-Jochistan- wrote:Luminesa wrote:You have to actually make a coherent case for me to get on it. All you’re really doing is just ranting, “Christians are meaaaaaaaaaaaaan people and I’m enlightened so you should listen to me!” That’s not an argument.
Well that's not what I'm fucking saying.
I'm saying that Traditionalist Christians are elitist and sectarian. Focusing on the Catholic and Orthodox Churches in particular.
I never extended it to all Christians. I never even directed it at you. So you can stop being insanely defensive for no reason.
by Sanctissima » Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:56 pm
The Parkus Empire wrote:Sanctissima wrote:
That's doesn't really take precedence over the Creed, of which:
"[...] And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds (æons), Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father [...]"
and
"[...] who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost and of the Virgin Mary, and was made man [...]"
seem to be at odds with the idea that God is not an entity or being.
Ousia is understood in the way used by the fathers who were the basis of the creed, and those who wrote about it soon thereafter its adoption.
by Luminesa » Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:57 pm
-Jochistan- wrote:Luminesa wrote:You have to actually make a coherent case for me to get on it. All you’re really doing is just ranting, “Christians are meaaaaaaaaaaaaan people and I’m enlightened so you should listen to me!” That’s not an argument.
Well that's not what I'm fucking saying.
I'm saying that Traditionalist Christians are elitist and sectarian. Focusing on the Catholic and Orthodox Churches in particular.
I never extended it to all Christians. I never even directed it at you. So you can stop being insanely defensive for no reason.
by -Jochistan- » Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:57 pm
by The Eternal Aulus » Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:57 pm
-Jochistan- wrote:Luminesa wrote:You have to actually make a coherent case for me to get on it. All you’re really doing is just ranting, “Christians are meaaaaaaaaaaaaan people and I’m enlightened so you should listen to me!” That’s not an argument.
Well that's not what I'm fucking saying.
I'm saying that Traditionalist Christians are elitist and sectarian. Focusing on the Catholic and Orthodox Churches in particular.
I never extended it to all Christians. I never even directed it at you. So you can stop being insanely defensive for no reason.
by The Parkus Empire » Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:58 pm
by Luminesa » Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:58 pm
by Luminesa » Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:59 pm
The Eternal Aulus wrote:-Jochistan- wrote:Well that's not what I'm fucking saying.
I'm saying that Traditionalist Christians are elitist and sectarian. Focusing on the Catholic and Orthodox Churches in particular.
I never extended it to all Christians. I never even directed it at you. So you can stop being insanely defensive for no reason.
The point is that all people are inherently dominate and subjugate others according to their own norms of what freedom and liberty is. Even if said person does not agree with it.
Everything is a lie Jochy. Everything is. Wubba dubba dub dub. Brb kms.
by -Jochistan- » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:02 pm
The Parkus Empire wrote:-Jochistan- wrote:Well that's not what I'm fucking saying.
I'm saying that Traditionalist Christians are elitist and sectarian. Focusing on the Catholic and Orthodox Churches in particular.
I never extended it to all Christians. I never even directed it at you. So you can stop being insanely defensive for no reason.
What you mean is we aren't open to modernism in our faith. Which is true. Although calling traditionalism "elitist" is not necessarily apt.
by The Parkus Empire » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:02 pm
Sanctissima wrote:The Parkus Empire wrote:
Ousia is understood in the way used by the fathers who were the basis of the creed, and those who wrote about it soon thereafter its adoption.
Homoousianism was more of a clever wordplay that allowed Nicene Christians to present their side as pliable and willing to compromise whilst simultaneously painting the Arians as dogmatic and unwilling to compromise during the Council of Nicaea, as opposed to being a genuine theological concept. Regardless though, even if we accept Ousia at face value, it is part and parcel with the Trinity, that asserts that all three aspects of God are, at the very least, true entities (with the Holy Spirit's form being debatable but at the very least it is considered an entity in a metaphysical context). If all three aspects of God are entities, how can God himself be considered anything other than an entity?
by -Jochistan- » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:04 pm
by Luminesa » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:05 pm
by The Parkus Empire » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:05 pm
-Jochistan- wrote:The Parkus Empire wrote:
What you mean is we aren't open to modernism in our faith. Which is true. Although calling traditionalism "elitist" is not necessarily apt.
The view that modernism in itself is bad is understandable. I myself subscribed to that point of view. And still believe that modernism has brought with it harmful qualities and modernity as a whole is awful.
But distancing oneself from it so much that you start wanting to actually go back in time to the idealized vision of Medieval Europe is a bit much.
by Taihei Tengoku » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:05 pm
by -Jochistan- » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:06 pm
The Eternal Aulus wrote:-Jochistan- wrote:Well that's not what I'm fucking saying.
I'm saying that Traditionalist Christians are elitist and sectarian. Focusing on the Catholic and Orthodox Churches in particular.
I never extended it to all Christians. I never even directed it at you. So you can stop being insanely defensive for no reason.
The point is that all people are inherently dominate and subjugate others according to their own norms of what freedom and liberty is. Even if said person does not agree with it.
Everything is a lie Jochy. Everything is. Wubba dubba dub dub. Brb kms.
by Sanctissima » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:09 pm
The Parkus Empire wrote:Sanctissima wrote:
Homoousianism was more of a clever wordplay that allowed Nicene Christians to present their side as pliable and willing to compromise whilst simultaneously painting the Arians as dogmatic and unwilling to compromise during the Council of Nicaea, as opposed to being a genuine theological concept. Regardless though, even if we accept Ousia at face value, it is part and parcel with the Trinity, that asserts that all three aspects of God are, at the very least, true entities (with the Holy Spirit's form being debatable but at the very least it is considered an entity in a metaphysical context). If all three aspects of God are entities, how can God himself be considered anything other than an entity?
Homousian means "same entity" or "same being".
The term by the fathers who were the basis of the Creed, and those who came shortly after, was understood purely as a placeholder. God is ineffable they said, so ironically we cannot say God "is" because "is" is a human concept. "Is" is therefore an analogy, like "hand of God" or "wrath of God". Very important and in a sense true, but not technically definate.
by -Jochistan- » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:12 pm
The Parkus Empire wrote:-Jochistan- wrote:The view that modernism in itself is bad is understandable. I myself subscribed to that point of view. And still believe that modernism has brought with it harmful qualities and modernity as a whole is awful.
But distancing oneself from it so much that you start wanting to actually go back in time to the idealized vision of Medieval Europe is a bit much.
I think many aspects of modernism are ill, but others are great. Nonetheless it needs to stay out of my faith.
by Salus Maior » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:15 pm
-Jochistan- wrote:Luminesa wrote:You have to actually make a coherent case for me to get on it. All you’re really doing is just ranting, “Christians are meaaaaaaaaaaaaan people and I’m enlightened so you should listen to me!” That’s not an argument.
Well that's not what I'm fucking saying.
I'm saying that Traditionalist Christians are elitist and sectarian. Focusing on the Catholic and Orthodox Churches in particular.
I never extended it to all Christians. I never even directed it at you. So you can stop being insanely defensive for no reason.
by -Jochistan- » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:15 pm
Luminesa wrote:-Jochistan- wrote:...youre calling me elitist because I named a religious sect?
I’m saying that the term indicates “elitist” behavior because it’s not a term that most people readily know, and you don’t seem too willing to explain it, using it as a green-text as though it should be somewhat common information.
by The Parkus Empire » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:15 pm
by The Parkus Empire » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:17 pm
-Jochistan- wrote:The Parkus Empire wrote:I think many aspects of modernism are ill, but others are great. Nonetheless it needs to stay out of my faith.
In terms of mysticism, rites and sacred art sure it should stay out.
I don't see why social views such as the views on women, homosexuals, and religious systems outside the church shouldn't be subjected to modernism to prevent abuses.
Plenty of Christians already have made steps in this direction in those areas. In virtually every major denomination.
by -Jochistan- » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:18 pm
The Parkus Empire wrote:-Jochistan- wrote:In terms of mysticism, rites and sacred art sure it should stay out.
I don't see why social views such as the views on women, homosexuals, and religious systems outside the church shouldn't be subjected to modernism to prevent abuses.
Plenty of Christians already have made steps in this direction in those areas. In virtually every major denomination.
I am not so concerned about secular same sex marriage if that sort of thing is what you mean. Though we shouldn't chide other countries for not having it.
by United Muscovite Nations » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:35 pm
-Jochistan- wrote:Luminesa wrote:You have to actually make a coherent case for me to get on it. All you’re really doing is just ranting, “Christians are meaaaaaaaaaaaaan people and I’m enlightened so you should listen to me!” That’s not an argument.
Well that's not what I'm fucking saying.
I'm saying that Traditionalist Christians are elitist and sectarian. Focusing on the Catholic and Orthodox Churches in particular.
I never extended it to all Christians. I never even directed it at you. So you can stop being insanely defensive for no reason.
by Luminesa » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:40 pm
United Muscovite Nations wrote:-Jochistan- wrote:Well that's not what I'm fucking saying.
I'm saying that Traditionalist Christians are elitist and sectarian. Focusing on the Catholic and Orthodox Churches in particular.
I never extended it to all Christians. I never even directed it at you. So you can stop being insanely defensive for no reason.
I seem to recall you pretty directly insulting her with words that shouldn't be repeated on the Abrahamic skype chat.
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