This is correct I do.
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by Victoriala II » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:34 pm
by The Parkus Empire » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:42 pm
by Bakery Hill » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:13 pm
by Salus Maior » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:33 pm
by Old Tyrannia » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:03 am
Salus Maior wrote:Are Monarchists technically Right Wing?
by Mattopilos II » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:05 am
by Old Tyrannia » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:15 am
Mattopilos II wrote:Old Tyrannia wrote:If we aren't, then no one is. The term was literally invented to refer to supporters of the French monarchy.
Not that people refer to left and right quite in that manner anymore, given the many shifts in political theory since then, and the constant question whether left and right is really a meaningful distinction.
by Mattopilos II » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:48 am
Old Tyrannia wrote:Mattopilos II wrote:
Not that people refer to left and right quite in that manner anymore, given the many shifts in political theory since then, and the constant question whether left and right is really a meaningful distinction.
The only rational way of defining the left-right spectrum without radically reorganising which groups and movements are considered "left-wing" or "right-wing" is to define it as a spectrum from egalitarianism on the left to hierarchy on the right. This fits with both the contemporary and original uses of the terms. By that definition, monarchism- being hierarchical by nature- is decidedly right-wing. The only people I've ever heard argue otherwise are those occasional libertarian types who argue that "right-wing" means "more libertarian" and therefore any sort of "authoritarian" government (monarchy being inherently authoritarian in their view, even though it's not) must be left-wing. This sort of casual rewriting of history and redefining of terms to fit their narrative is something they share with their Marxist opponents. It's nonsense, of course.
by War Gears » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:50 am
by The Empire of Pretantia » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:54 am
War Gears wrote:Does anyone think there's a reason that right wingers tend to put less emphasis on "theory" than Marxists and the left-wing does? Not that there aren't right-wing political and economic theories, but they tend not to talk about it as much or refer to it like socialists do (e.g. "Marxist theory," "Leninist theory," "anarchist theory," etc.) perhaps it has to do with the rhetorical appeals of the movements being different.
by Mushet » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:00 am
Mattopilos II wrote:Old Tyrannia wrote:The only rational way of defining the left-right spectrum without radically reorganising which groups and movements are considered "left-wing" or "right-wing" is to define it as a spectrum from egalitarianism on the left to hierarchy on the right. This fits with both the contemporary and original uses of the terms. By that definition, monarchism- being hierarchical by nature- is decidedly right-wing. The only people I've ever heard argue otherwise are those occasional libertarian types who argue that "right-wing" means "more libertarian" and therefore any sort of "authoritarian" government (monarchy being inherently authoritarian in their view, even though it's not) must be left-wing. This sort of casual rewriting of history and redefining of terms to fit their narrative is something they share with their Marxist opponents. It's nonsense, of course.
That would assume that politics is really that one-dimensional, which we both know isn't the case. How 'hierarchical' the society is is just one factor.
by Mattopilos II » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:05 am
Mushet wrote:Mattopilos II wrote:
That would assume that politics is really that one-dimensional, which we both know isn't the case. How 'hierarchical' the society is is just one factor.
And that one factor is what is measured on the left-right spectrum. It's not the be-all end-all to political classificiation, it is one way to group ideologies.
by War Gears » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:07 am
The Empire of Pretantia wrote:War Gears wrote:Does anyone think there's a reason that right wingers tend to put less emphasis on "theory" than Marxists and the left-wing does? Not that there aren't right-wing political and economic theories, but they tend not to talk about it as much or refer to it like socialists do (e.g. "Marxist theory," "Leninist theory," "anarchist theory," etc.) perhaps it has to do with the rhetorical appeals of the movements being different.
Right wing ideologies tend not to think of themselves as scientific I guess?
by Old Tyrannia » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:10 am
Mattopilos II wrote:Old Tyrannia wrote:The only rational way of defining the left-right spectrum without radically reorganising which groups and movements are considered "left-wing" or "right-wing" is to define it as a spectrum from egalitarianism on the left to hierarchy on the right. This fits with both the contemporary and original uses of the terms. By that definition, monarchism- being hierarchical by nature- is decidedly right-wing. The only people I've ever heard argue otherwise are those occasional libertarian types who argue that "right-wing" means "more libertarian" and therefore any sort of "authoritarian" government (monarchy being inherently authoritarian in their view, even though it's not) must be left-wing. This sort of casual rewriting of history and redefining of terms to fit their narrative is something they share with their Marxist opponents. It's nonsense, of course.
That would assume that politics is really that one-dimensional, which we both know isn't the case. How 'hierarchical' the society is is just one factor.
War Gears wrote:Does anyone think there's a reason that right wingers tend to put less emphasis on "theory" than Marxists and the left-wing does? Not that there aren't right-wing political and economic theories, but they tend not to talk about it as much or refer to it like socialists do (e.g. "Marxist theory," "Leninist theory," "anarchist theory," etc.) perhaps it has to do with the rhetorical appeals of the movements being different.
by Mattopilos II » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:19 am
Old Tyrannia wrote:Obviously politics isn't one dimensional, and I never claimed that it was. The left-right spectrum, on the other hand, blatantly is. You are the one assuming that the left-right spectrum must be an all-encompassing explanation of politics rather than a measurement of just one factor.
And left-wingers tend to advocate for various forms of socialism because they view it as a more egalitarian economic system than capitalism. It comes down to egalitarianism vs social stratification.
by Old Tyrannia » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:10 am
Mattopilos II wrote:Old Tyrannia wrote:Obviously politics isn't one dimensional, and I never claimed that it was. The left-right spectrum, on the other hand, blatantly is. You are the one assuming that the left-right spectrum must be an all-encompassing explanation of politics rather than a measurement of just one factor.
You might want to read what I just wrote - I never said YOU thought politics is one dimensional. Someone is a little defensive.
And sure, if we make various simplifications (and by that I mean many).And left-wingers tend to advocate for various forms of socialism because they view it as a more egalitarian economic system than capitalism. It comes down to egalitarianism vs social stratification.
Key word is 'tend'.
by El-Amin Caliphate » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:52 am
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)
by Ramune and Chocolate » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:04 am
War Gears wrote:Does anyone think there's a reason that right wingers tend to put less emphasis on "theory" than Marxists and the left-wing does? Not that there aren't right-wing political and economic theories, but they tend not to talk about it as much or refer to it like socialists do (e.g. "Marxist theory," "Leninist theory," "anarchist theory," etc.) perhaps it has to do with the rhetorical appeals of the movements being different.
by War Gears » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:09 am
Ramune and Chocolate wrote:War Gears wrote:Does anyone think there's a reason that right wingers tend to put less emphasis on "theory" than Marxists and the left-wing does? Not that there aren't right-wing political and economic theories, but they tend not to talk about it as much or refer to it like socialists do (e.g. "Marxist theory," "Leninist theory," "anarchist theory," etc.) perhaps it has to do with the rhetorical appeals of the movements being different.
Right-wing ideologies tend to revolve around acceptance and preservation, or expansion in some, of the status quo order, which hardly necessitates the creation of theories to explain their problems which are, if any, understood not to be inherent within the system. Modern leftism tend to ridiculously dedicate itself in theories because many leftist ideologies are basically intended to concern themselves with structural violence/injustice/insert other, and uproot it from the core.
Some other right-wing ideologies are irrational and anti-intellectual (fascism, for example), favoring cathartic actions over comprehensive organizing and theorizing, a trait emulated by many post-leftists and egoists.
by The Empire of Pretantia » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:15 am
by The Empire of Pretantia » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:18 am
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