Granting women leave for periods every month

[Iwassoclose]

Italy may pass a law that grants women monthly period leave

There is already a similar policy in parts of China, Japan, Indonesia and South Korea, but Italy would be the first Western country to do this.

Some are celebrating the prospect of the law, but others argue that it could work against women. Currently only 60% of Italian women work (compared to the European average of 72%).

While periods are often seen as a minor inconvenience, in reality some women can be completely immobilised by the pain.

A YouGov study found that more than half of women have experienced period pain which affected their ability to do their job, and only a quarter said they had been honest with their boss about the reason.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/item/84f6 ... d3847589db

Does this seem like a very ham fisted way of "supporting" women? I feel like treating all women as invalids and giving them multiple paid leave days every month seems a bit too much. I am sure there are women who do suffer heavy cramps but to use an analogy here, keeping back the whole team from playing because a member got the flu seems kind of counterproductive.

[USS Monitor]

Everyone should be allowed the same amount of paid leave, and they should be allowed to use it for any purpose they want, whether it's taking a day off for menstrual cramps, getting over the flu, or going to the beach because they're blessed with good health and don't need as many sick days.

I don't think periods need to be treated differently than any other reasons why someone might need a day off. If you do get an especially bad one and need a sick day, you can just tell your boss you're not feeling well and you don't need to get more specific. It has happened to me. I called in sick because I was feeling terrible, but it turned out to be an unusually bad case of PMS rather than anything serious. Wasn't a problem to just use a general sick day.

[Costa Fierro]

Workers already get the same amount of paid sick leave so they can just use that. No other reason to introduce this. If they don't like it, get a job from home, or don't work.

[Saiwania]

Paid leave shouldn't exist. It doesn't make sense to pay anyone to not show up for work. If there is paid leave, let it be like a 401k, where you pay money to be set aside to be used for whenever you miss work.

[The Black Forrest]

Workers already get the same amount of paid sick leave so they can just use that. No other reason to introduce this. If they don't like it, get a job from home, or don't work.

It depends on how it's defined. I once worked for a company where you had to be out 2 1/2 days before they would pay for sick leave. Love the free market.

Anyway, I view this as "whatever" if they want it, who I am I to say no. Not every woman is going to use it.

As to the they don't like it comment? Well if you don't like it then get a job from home or don't work. See how easy that is? Make a better argument.

[The Black Forrest]

Paid leave shouldn't exist. It doesn't make sense to pay anyone to not show up for work. If there is paid leave, let it be like a 401k, where you pay money to be set aside to be used for whenever you miss work.

Why is it a bad thing? I would rather have people motivated to stay home sick.

As to my previous comment of the 2 and 1/2 days? Most people worked sick and infected others......

[Longweather]

Everyone should be allowed the same amount of paid leave, and they should be allowed to use it for any purpose they want, whether it's taking a day off for menstrual cramps, getting over the flu, or going to the beach because they're blessed with good health and don't need as many sick days.

I don't think periods need to be treated differently than any other reasons why someone might need a day off. If you do get an especially bad one and need a sick day, you can just tell your boss you're not feeling well and you don't need to get more specific. It has happened to me. I called in sick because I was feeling terrible, but it turned out to be an unusually bad case of PMS rather than anything serious. Wasn't a problem to just use a general sick day.

I can't agree with this more.

Also, for a second I was conflicted with the thread title and the OP. The thread title immediately put the thought, "Do you want the gender earnings gap to have more justifiable increase?" Then I thought what you posted. Now I'm back to thinking that it could still increase the earnings gap.

[Noraika]

Would need to know more about the law to be honest. It sounds like they tried to make some form of clarification in regards to periods that were debilitating to work, or even basic functionality, but the vast majority of women simply go through their day without really changing anything, so it doesn't really make that much sense because it's not something most women would need.

Perhaps what the law means to say is that it allows periods to be a legitimate usage of medical leave in more extreme cases as stated in the article? I don't know...

In addition, what'd be more productive would be to address the reason that women felt they couldn't be honest with their bosses about the way it was effecting their work, if at all (since the article didn't clarify the degree of interference with their work) and to address the unwarranted prejudice that surrounds periods.

I can't help but feel like, if they're applying this to all periods, that they're implying that women are somehow less capable, and thus creating this law out of a sexist perspective that reinforces the perspective of women being seen as inferior, and denied equality.

In all honesty, this article doesn't really provide much information. Just creates confusion and more questions to be honest. I can't make an informed conclusion on it.

[Costa Fierro]

It depends on how it's defined. I once worked for a company where you had to be out 2 1/2 days before they would pay for sick leave. Love the free market.

Most countries outside of the United States have a set amount of guaranteed sick leave days or at least a legal right to paid sick leave.

As to the they don't like it comment? Well if you don't like it then get a job from home or don't work. See how easy that is? Make a better argument.

How about you come up with a better response? That doesn't do anything to disprove or otherwise retort against what I said.

[Noraika]

Paid leave shouldn't exist. It doesn't make sense to pay anyone to not show up for work. If there is paid leave, let it be like a 401k, where you pay money to be set aside to be used for whenever you miss work.

You're missing out. Most civilised countries require several weeks of paid sick leave, vacation time, maternity leave, and so on and so forth. It works to create a much better, and healthier, work-life balance, and helps with the mental and physical health of workers, and helps not spread disease. The United States is kind of seen as backwards by the rest of the civilised work, and this is definitely part of it.

[USS Monitor]

It depends on how it's defined. I once worked for a company where you had to be out 2 1/2 days before they would pay for sick leave. Love the free market.

Most countries outside of the United States have a set amount of guaranteed sick leave days or at least a legal right to paid sick leave.

Some US states have laws about it too. I don't think what Black Forrest described is legal in Massachusetts.

[Jello Biafra]

I worry that this could be an incentive to not hire women.

[A Humanist Resurrection]

Paid leave shouldn't exist. It doesn't make sense to pay anyone to not show up for work.

Clearly, sick workers should be compelled to go into work and smite the whole place with their illness. That won't impact productivity or profit in any conceivable way whatsoever.

Also, taking away people's pay when they probably need it most is kinda lame too.

Everyone should be allowed the same amount of paid leave, and they should be allowed to use it for any purpose they want, whether it's taking a day off for menstrual cramps, getting over the flu ...

Leaving menstrual leave to plain paid sick leave might be considered discriminatory to the extent that men would end up having more effective sick leave, since that particular use would never be an issue for them. According to The Atlantic this was the argument made in Taiwan, which initially took the general sick leave approach before passing a law specifically creating menstrual leave.

[Neo Balka]

Seriously?

Paid leave for periods?

[Gim]

Seriously?

Paid leave for periods?

Well, they do get cramps from menstruation. It's best to respect women as we respect ourselves.

[Pope Joan]

While this seems humane, conditions can vary greatly from person to person. What is unpleasant and painful for one may be absolute excruciating torture for another. Why then should each get identical leave?

[Neo Balka]

Seriously?

Paid leave for periods?

Well, they do get cramps from menstruation. It's best to respect women as we respect ourselves.

Ill support it as soon as i can get leave for monthly sperm donation.

[Gim]

Well, they do get cramps from menstruation. It's best to respect women as we respect ourselves.

Ill support it as soon as i can get leave for monthly sperm donation.

It's not the same thing.

[Aclion]

Do you want a wage gap? Because this is how you get a wag gap.

[Reploid Productions]

Seriously?

Paid leave for periods?

Although I am most fortunate to NOT be afflicted with the worst or most debilitating symptoms That Time of The Month has to offer, plenty of women out there suffer severe and extremely debilitating symptoms every single month. Some women can spend 3-5 days every month pretty much glued to the toilet because their cramping and hormonal swings prevent them from keeping food down and they can only cling dry-heaving to the toilet bowl until it passes. Others are in such intense pain from cramping that they can do little more than curl up in an agonized ball and pray that the painkillers might take enough of the edge off to function. Some women bleed so much every month that they routinely have to get emergency treatment. And that's before getting into the psychological symptoms of PMS or its bigger, meaner sister PMDD.

Imagine, those of you who own the male set of genitalia, the intense pain you experience when you get hit in the dick, or worse yet, one of those grazing blows. The kind of hit to your junk that leaves you curled up on the ground clutching at your abused groin paralyzed for at least a few moments of triple-distilled "FUUUUUCK MY ENTIRE WORLD IS PAIN MAKE IT STOP," where you're not quite sure if the pain is so bad that you're going to hurl to boot. And picture that going on for days. Every. Single. Month. And being expected to go about your daily business while constantly in that "kicked-in-the-dick" agony.

That being said, not every woman would need to make use of monthly Aunt Flo paid time off. And not every woman would need to make use of it every month; a woman's cycle and symptoms do have some measure of variance and those of us who straddle the border between tolerable and debilitating symptoms have some months on one side of that line, and some months on the other side. Frankly, a better option would be to give ALL workers enough paid sick leave that the difference between a woman having to take a few days every month and a man who doesn't would be negligible. Until then at least, actually acknowledging that menstruation can be a serious issue and giving women who need that extra time is at least a good start.

[Saiwania]

You're missing out. Most civilised countries require several weeks of paid sick leave, vacation time, maternity leave, and so on and so forth. It works to create a much better, and healthier, work-life balance, and helps with the mental and physical health of workers, and helps not spread disease. The United States is kind of seen as backwards by the rest of the civilised work, and this is definitely part of it.

All of these policies make businesses less competitive than businesses which don't have to do any of that. Time that could be spent working is instead spent remaining idle. This means a lower GDP. Regardless of the location, what I see is that low income people don't get nice things such as vacations, that is a privilege only the wealthy or people in more white collar settings can enjoy.

You are genuinely poor if you have to work longer and harder than other people to simply survive. I'd have to balk at policies like mandatory vacation, time off is never in my vocabulary. What about the ambitious salary man who really wants to get ahead by simply working more than anyone else and cut throatly pursuing every dollar they can?

[USS Monitor]

Everyone should be allowed the same amount of paid leave, and they should be allowed to use it for any purpose they want, whether it's taking a day off for menstrual cramps, getting over the flu ...

Leaving menstrual leave to plain paid sick leave might be considered discriminatory to the extent that men would end up having more effective sick leave, since that particular use would never be an issue for them. According to The Atlantic this was the argument made in Taiwan, which initially took the general sick leave approach before passing a law specifically creating menstrual leave.

So what about people that just happen to get sick more often, or people with chronic conditions? Is it discrimination when they have to work during minor illnesses because they ran out of sick days?

The fact is some people are going to feel crappy more often than others, and it is not your employer's fault if you feel crappy more often.

Seriously?

Paid leave for periods?

I have literally passed out from PMS symptoms. It doesn't happen very often, and it has always been when I woke up in the middle of the night feeling horrible, not during the day when I was trying to work -- but it still has happened.

Even though I am arguing that time off for periods should be treated as normal sick leave, it is still a completely legitimate reason to take sick leave.

[CoraSpia]

Should be down to the company rather than the government. If a company is really willing to lose that amount of productivity, let them go for it, but all this is going to do is make companies that want to grow refrain from hiring women.

[CoraSpia]

You're missing out. Most civilised countries require several weeks of paid sick leave, vacation time, maternity leave, and so on and so forth. It works to create a much better, and healthier, work-life balance, and helps with the mental and physical health of workers, and helps not spread disease. The United States is kind of seen as backwards by the rest of the civilised work, and this is definitely part of it.

All of these policies make businesses less competitive than businesses which don't have to do any of that. Time that could be spent working is instead spent remaining idle. This means a lower GDP. Regardless of the location, what I see is that low income people don't get nice things such as vacations, that is a privilege only the wealthy or people in more white collar settings can enjoy.

You are genuinely poor if you have to work longer and harder than other people to simply survive. I'd have to balk at policies like mandatory vacation, time off is never in my vocabulary. What about the ambitious salary man who really wants to get ahead by simply working more than anyone else and cut throatly pursuing every dollar they can?

Though I don't agree with the level of payed holiday time that some parts of Europe have gone for, I think that some is a good idea. Having a few weeks on holiday with the family is pretty essential, not only for you but for your children. If people can't afford that because they have to worry so much about where the next paycheck is, it not only hurts their own but their childrens development.

[Calladan]

Can I just point out that if there was something that affected males every month, that gave them some kind of debilitating pain for two or three days, this would not even be a discussion. Every country in the world would have set aside leave for them already, and it would have been enshrined in law since the dawn of time.