BREXIT Mega Thread (The Saga Begins?)

[Souseiseki]

Wow. Reading through a good number of pages... This is going to be a long few years.


and lol at all the still sore globalist/EUist butts in here acting all passive aggressive and pompous.

>"the EU is too protectionist!"
>"we want to make our own free trade deals with everyone"
>"we could be the singaspore of europe!"
>"we need to let people know that britain is ~*open for business*~"
>"let's cut corporation tax and become even more of a tax haven!"

ah, yes, a stunning victory by the true anti-globalists right there. i'm sure the government and its supporters will suddenly collapse and brexit supporter's preferred candidates will swoop in and deliver the vision of their own personal brexit that they knew was coming all along. the US, EU and china will cower in the face of our rugged sovereignty. any day now... any day now... any day now...

[Souseiseki]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... own-jewels

Senior EU sources claimed that Britain’s aggressive approach to the talks, including threats of becoming a low-tax, low-regulation state unless it was given a good deal, had backfired. “However realistic the threats were, or not, they were noticed,” one senior EU source said. “The future prosperity of the single market was challenged. That had an impact – it pushed people together.”

Another senior diplomat said initial sympathy with Britain had fallen away in many capitals, due to the approach of Theresa May’s government. “Of course, we want to protect trade with Britain, but maintaining the single market, keeping trade flowing there, is the priority, and so we will work through [the EU’s chief negotiator] Michel Barnier,” the source said. “Britain used to be pragmatic. That doesn’t seem to be the case any more, and we need to protect our interests.”

lollllllll we're so fucking bad at this it's not real.

we threw our international reputation down the drain for this.

[Vassenor]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/15/britain-set-to-lose-eu-crown-jewels

Senior EU sources claimed that Britain’s aggressive approach to the talks, including threats of becoming a low-tax, low-regulation state unless it was given a good deal, had backfired. “However realistic the threats were, or not, they were noticed,” one senior EU source said. “The future prosperity of the single market was challenged. That had an impact – it pushed people together.”

Another senior diplomat said initial sympathy with Britain had fallen away in many capitals, due to the approach of Theresa May’s government. “Of course, we want to protect trade with Britain, but maintaining the single market, keeping trade flowing there, is the priority, and so we will work through [the EU’s chief negotiator] Michel Barnier,” the source said. “Britain used to be pragmatic. That doesn’t seem to be the case any more, and we need to protect our interests.”

lollllllll we're so fucking bad at this it's not real.

So are we at Kekcon 3 yet?

[Maichuko]

Since I don't live in Britain. Whats the worst case scenario if you fail to negotiate a good exit deal?

[Vassenor]

Since I don't live in Britain. Whats the worst case scenario if you fail to negotiate a good exit deal?

In short, we're slapped with tariffs on all of our international trade.

[Vassenor]

Lloyds confirms they will be moving European operations to Berlin

[Hurdergaryp]

Lloyds confirms they will be moving European operations to Berlin

Everything going as expected.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Applications for Irish Passports from the UK have jumped up 69% in the first quarter of 2017.

Come ye british types, come and enjoy the glory that is soda farls.

[Great Nepal]

Right at this present moment, the ball is now entirely in the EU's court; they have most of the leverage, they are the ones that dictate the terms. It's not going to take 2 years to decide on net liabilities, a simple accounting exercise. The whole point of the two years is to decide "the country's future relationship with the Union", the point is to make a new deal that sets the terms of our post Brexit relationship with the EU. Apparently the ""progressive"" policy is to completely refuse to make any sort of deal, ensure the United Kingdom leaves in a situation of practical autarky - and then after we have left, while we're experiencing the econopocalypse, then we're allowed to initiate trade relationships with the rest of Europe - I suppose somewhere in the queue behind Burkina Faso and Vietnam, so how many decades will that take?

No, the ball is in British court - they're the one who's calling for change to the status quo. The liabilities is rather obviously not a simple accounting exercise but a political one as evidenced by British reaction to the issue, not to mention the payment schedules need to be agreed unless Britain is giving a single cheque to EU. Beyond this, there is question about expats - Britain seems to be pushing for equal rights for those before Mar 17, EU is pushing for until UK is fully out of EU. Question about borders need to be addressed in that time period - management of Irish border wrt customs and people, same with Gibraltar also the bases in Cyprus. Oversight for any existing contracts between EU and British based companies. The issue of untangling decades of relationship between UK and EU is not a simple accounting exercise, and quite frankly these are issues that you'd be hard pressed to complete within two years.
I'm not sure why this is a surprise - the process of negotiations of trade deal wasn't any sort of secret. This was fully known by the referendum and given there was no duress presumably UK agreed to the process when agreeing to brexit.

Lloyds confirms they will be moving European operations to Berlin

Totally fearmongering.

[Hurdergaryp]

Lloyds confirms they will be moving European operations to Berlin

Totally fearmongering.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

[Questers]

The petty sarcasm of the Euro-nationalists has reached such heights that they can't even recognise the people on their own side anymore.

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

The ball is entirely with the country; this wasn't some hidden knowledge secreted in an ancient vault kept from the leaving country and the country isn't under any sort of duress to take any decisions - the country rather obviously believes it'll be in an stronger position subsequently.
It is like someone who in their right mental state want to start taking heroin, you can point out what will happen if they do etc but if they consciously decide to take that injection - ultimately it's their choice.

Right at this present moment, the ball is now entirely in the EU's court; they have most of the leverage, they are the ones that dictate the terms. It's not going to take 2 years to decide on net liabilities, a simple accounting exercise.

You'd think. But it's actually a contract dispute, not an accounting exercise. HMG's position is that no bill is legally enforceable; any bill is a point to be negotiated and presumably traded for something. The EU's position seems to be that there actually is a bill.

If this is litigated it's well possible we won't know if there even is a bill or not for decades after Brexit is completed. Since that effectively means there isn't a bill, whether or not to litigate must itself be negotiated...

[Souseiseki]

The petty sarcasm of the Euro-nationalists has reached such heights that they can't even recognise the people on their own side anymore.

if you're talking about hydesland and great nepal then they legitimately disagree on a few things. turns out they're not one big hivemind! i understand that may etc. are desperate to pretend leave has one vision and the UK is unified behind it so i can see how you might be tempted to make a mistake like this.

[Proctopeo]

So, what's going on in the Brexit thread right now?

[Vassenor]

So, what's going on in the Brexit thread right now?

More stuff that we were told would never ever ever ever happen is happening.

[Proctopeo]

So, what's going on in the Brexit thread right now?

More stuff that we were told would never ever ever ever happen is happening.

Like what?

[Vassenor]

More stuff that we were told would never ever ever ever happen is happening.

Like what?

Lloyds confirms they will be moving European operations to Berlin

[Proctopeo]

Like what?

Lloyds confirms they will be moving European operations to Berlin

Who said it wouldn't?

[Dumb Ideologies]

More stuff that we were told would never ever ever ever happen is happening.

Like what?

Passive-aggressive strops because a fantasy straw Brexiter in Vass's head said that if Brexit happened there'd be no bad economic news ever again.

[Eredion]

The petty sarcasm of the Euro-nationalists has reached such heights that they can't even recognise the people on their own side anymore.

Glad that I can be sarcastic and show some Schadenfreude to the Brexit, because I ain´t British.
Sure am glad that it hit you and not my country, all the populist wins of the last year like Brexit and Trump made my people reconsider rather than follow the songs of the populist.

[Souseiseki]

Like what?

Passive-aggressive strops because a fantasy straw Brexiter in Vass's head said that if Brexit happened there'd be no bad economic news ever again.

didn't major figures in the leave campaign say that the banks wouldn't leave and brexit would be good economically

edit: and downplay remain claims that many of the things that are happening now would happen has scaremongering, hyperbolic lies

[Salandriagado]

Who said it wouldn't?

The leave campaign. Incessantly. For basically a whole year. While deriding even the vaguest of suggestions that any such thing might happen as "fearmongering".

[Calladan]

Who said it wouldn't?

The leave campaign. Incessantly. For basically a whole year. While deriding even the vaguest of suggestions that any such thing might happen as "fearmongering".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... ter-brexi/
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2015/06/ten ... t-brexit/#

[Hydesland]

No, the ball is in British court - they're the one who's calling for change to the status quo. The liabilities is rather obviously not a simple accounting exercise but a political one as evidenced by British reaction to the issue, not to mention the payment schedules need to be agreed unless Britain is giving a single cheque to EU. Beyond this, there is question about expats - Britain seems to be pushing for equal rights for those before Mar 17, EU is pushing for until UK is fully out of EU. Question about borders need to be addressed in that time period - management of Irish border wrt customs and people, same with Gibraltar also the bases in Cyprus. Oversight for any existing contracts between EU and British based companies. The issue of untangling decades of relationship between UK and EU is not a simple accounting exercise, and quite frankly these are issues that you'd be hard pressed to complete within two years.
I'm not sure why this is a surprise - the process of negotiations of trade deal wasn't any sort of secret. This was fully known by the referendum and given there was no duress presumably UK agreed to the process when agreeing to brexit.

Leaving the issue of liabilities/bills to one side for a second, we absolutely cannot discuss coherently many of the other issues you mention, such as customs or business contracts without knowing what our future trade relationship & migration policy with the EU will look like - we absolutely certainly cannot "untangle decades of relationship" without knowing what the overwhelmingly most important aspect of the relationship will be after Brexit. As for the process, when I quoted that negotiations must take into account "the country's future relationship with the Union", I was quoting specifically from the text of article 50. This is what the bill states - again there is no way we can talk about the country's future relationship with the Union, and therefore follow the procedures of Article 50 in good faith, without talking about what the new terms of trade and policies regarding movement of people will be. I cannot think of a single reason to expect reasonable negotiations from reasonable parties to omit these utterly essential factors for any reason other than the most cynical, politicized or masochistic motives.

[Hydesland]

Right at this present moment, the ball is now entirely in the EU's court; they have most of the leverage, they are the ones that dictate the terms. It's not going to take 2 years to decide on net liabilities, a simple accounting exercise.

You'd think. But it's actually a contract dispute, not an accounting exercise. HMG's position is that no bill is legally enforceable; any bill is a point to be negotiated and presumably traded for something. The EU's position seems to be that there actually is a bill.

If this is litigated it's well possible we won't know if there even is a bill or not for decades after Brexit is completed. Since that effectively means there isn't a bill, whether or not to litigate must itself be negotiated...

Well if they're going to "trade" it for something, probably the only useful thing to trade it with would be favourable concessions regarding future terms of trade with the union - but I doubt the sums would ever be high enough to ever buy us anything there, and still apparently we're not even allowed to talk about trade yet. So I'd rather we just accept the bills and get on with it, the figures aren't that huge from what I've seen.