Golden Dawn: Golden or Not?

[Drakonisch]

(Image)

The Golden Dawn is an ultranationalist, far right party in Greece. Many people call it a racist, neo-nazi party, but since when is Greeks caring for Greeks...

Racist?

Here's an excerpt from a dominantly liberal article on it: "Just three years ago, the far-right Golden Dawn party was a nonentity. An outlandish group modelled after similar neo-Nazi parties of Europe, they caused more bewilderment than fear. Their anger seemed inexplicable and appalling, but also inconsequential. In the 2009 election they got 0.29% of the popular vote, which, in the tiny electorate of Greece, translates to less than 20,000 votes in total.

Then, after the economy crumbled, bailouts were issued, memoranda were signed and the Greek political system imploded, something changed: on the 6 May election, Golden Dawn got almost 7% of the vote (and 21 seats in parliament). More than 440,000 people voted for them.

That's a lot of new neo-Nazis in just three short years." - TheGuardian
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While heres an excerpt from a dominantly conservative article on it: "“Golden Dawn will be the first electoral force in Greece. And this is the optimistic message, because such a patriotic wind is blowing across all of Europe,” party spokesman Ilias Kasidiaris said in a speech to the Greek Parliament last week.

“It’s blowing in the United States, where it appears that the next president will be a patriot president,” he said. “A president who doesn’t want illegal immigrants in his country.”

Though he does not mention Trump by name, he accuses Greece’s other major parties of supporting Clinton." - TimesOfIsrael

I personally like the Golden Dawns ideals.

Your thoughts, NSG?

/discuss

There wrong.

First, it is IMPOSSIBLE to keep people out. IMPOSSIBLE. They will tunnel, jump over and swim where they want to.

Second, Trump is an illicit president. He does not have the formal training to BE president. As an illicit president, I do not recognize his presidency. I recognize that he sits in Washington, but I do not recognize the powers of a President he supposedly has. He is and always will be an illicit President, no matter what. I eagerly await a President that is REALLLY the President, has the training and is elected without Russia's help.

As far as Golden Dawn, the people should instantly rebel against it. Such an organization is built on hopes, none which they can deliver.

Since he is officially inaugurated, sitting in the white house, Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces, and is now officially passing bills (or atleast attempting to)

He is, infact

THE PREZ

As your for Golden Dawn argument, lots of people support them. I doubt lots of people will rebel against them, maybe a small few, but not much.
And yes, I know it is IMPOSSIBLE to keep ALL people out, but they are just going for alot more stringent border control, and given that Greece is mainly an archipelago, that will be extremely hard. It won't stop them from trying, though.

[Empire of Cats]

What fucking nonsense did I just read?
Because what the fuck is nuance right?

"The Nazis are Communist"

wait

wot

(Image)

Whoa, whoa, whoa! No, the Nazis weren't communists! Heck, they put the Commies in the camps. Their name may be the National Democratic Socialist German Worker's Party, but they weren't communists any more than the North Koreans are really a "Democratic People's Republic". Generally, if a nation's name (IRL) says "Democratic" or "People's Republic", it's not.

Wow, you leftists get triggered very easily don't you? Maybe communist is the wrong word, is socialist better?

You like to forget the fact that Nazi Germany sized private property from Jewish people, also had free healthcare and that Hitler admitted that he was a leftist

Also there are tons of videos proving it as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzA7QomW4kY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35Rini9Yu0M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uYEovjx5mg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bNRgw0g-_w

Who said we forgot about the Holocaust? Just because something is done in or under a certain name doesn't mean that they are actually that. Hitler was not a true socialist, regardless of what he said. I could say that I am a Sherman tank. Does that make it true?

[Salus Maior]

These people are still relevant?

[United Minorities for Self-Defense]

There wrong.

First, it is IMPOSSIBLE to keep people out. IMPOSSIBLE. They will tunnel, jump over and swim where they want to.

Second, Trump is an illicit president. He does not have the formal training to BE president. As an illicit president, I do not recognize his presidency. I recognize that he sits in Washington, but I do not recognize the powers of a President he supposedly has. He is and always will be an illicit President, no matter what. I eagerly await a President that is REALLLY the President, has the training and is elected without Russia's help.

As far as Golden Dawn, the people should instantly rebel against it. Such an organization is built on hopes, none which they can deliver.

Since he is officially inaugurated, sitting in the white house, Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces, and is now officially passing bills (or atleast attempting to)

He is, infact

THE PREZ

As your for Golden Dawn argument, lots of people support them. I doubt lots of people will rebel against them, maybe a small few, but not much.
And yes, I know it is IMPOSSIBLE to keep ALL people out, but they are just going for alot more stringent border control, and given that Greece is mainly an archipelago, that will be extremely hard. It won't stop them from trying, though.

First, he is NOT President. I neither acknowledge obey any law he passes. They have no legitimacy.

Second, people will. I believe that Transgendered people will African-Americans, Latino-Americans and Muslim-Americans will. Russia's attempt to take over our nation must and will fail.

[Drakonisch]

These people are still relevant?

[Ejutla]

These people are still relevant?

unfortunately

[Crockerland]

Since he is officially inaugurated, sitting in the white house, Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces, and is now officially passing bills (or atleast attempting to)

He is, infact

THE PREZ

As your for Golden Dawn argument, lots of people support them. I doubt lots of people will rebel against them, maybe a small few, but not much.
And yes, I know it is IMPOSSIBLE to keep ALL people out, but they are just going for alot more stringent border control, and given that Greece is mainly an archipelago, that will be extremely hard. It won't stop them from trying, though.

First, he is NOT President. I neither acknowledge obey any law he passes. They have no legitimacy.

Second, people will. I believe that Transgendered people will African-Americans, Latino-Americans and Muslim-Americans will. Russia's attempt to take over our nation must and will fail.

[Socialist Nordia]

Right-wing populists of the Trump variety, don't be fooled. Golden Dawn represents actual fascism, and not the kind that's thrown around loosely. They actually admit that they are racist. They would rather see a dictatorial state, and worship the dictator Ioannis Metaxas. They aren't afraid of touting the third position, contrary to both capitalist and socialist ideals.

I don't see why all parts of the political spectrum can't agree on condemning these neo-nazis. You can see who endorses them to distinguish the conservatives from the closet fascists.

[San Marlindo]

Right-wing populists of the Trump variety, don't be fooled. Golden Dawn represents actual fascism, and not the kind that's thrown around loosely. They actually admit that they are racist. They would rather see a dictatorial state, and worship the dictator Ioannis Metaxas. They aren't afraid of touting the third position, contrary to both capitalist and socialist ideals.

I don't see why all parts of the political spectrum can't agree on condemning these neo-nazis. You can see who endorses them to distinguish the conservatives from the closet fascists.

For the same reason a lot of leftists can't agree on condemning Stalin. Or a left-wing guerrilla movement responsible for human rights abuses like the FARC.

Same bullshit.

Extremists and violent lunatics deserve to be condemned, no matter where on the political spectrum they fall. Golden Dawn is no exception.

[Drakonisch]

Right-wing populists of the Trump variety, don't be fooled. Golden Dawn represents actual fascism, and not the kind that's thrown around loosely. They actually admit that they are racist. They would rather see a dictatorial state, and worship the dictator Ioannis Metaxas. They aren't afraid of touting the third position, contrary to both capitalist and socialist ideals.

I don't see why all parts of the political spectrum can't agree on condemning these neo-nazis. You can see who endorses them to distinguish the conservatives from the closet fascists.

For the same reason a lot of leftists can't agree on condemning Stalin. Or a left-wing guerrilla movement responsible for human rights abuses like the FARC.

Same bullshit.

Extremists and violent lunatics deserve to be condemned, no matter where on the political spectrum they fall. Golden Dawn is no exception.

[Empire of Cats]

First, he is NOT President. I neither acknowledge obey any law he passes. They have no legitimacy.

Second, people will. I believe that Transgendered people will African-Americans, Latino-Americans and Muslim-Americans will. Russia's attempt to take over our nation must and will fail.

Nicely done, Comrade.

[San Marlindo]

For the same reason a lot of leftists can't agree on condemning Stalin. Or a left-wing guerrilla movement responsible for human rights abuses like the FARC.

Same bullshit.

Extremists and violent lunatics deserve to be condemned, no matter where on the political spectrum they fall. Golden Dawn is no exception.

Am I glad they killed the smiley slapping itself in the face. The arched eyebrow isn't nearly as mind numbing.

[Jelmatt]

What fucking nonsense did I just read?
Because what the fuck is nuance right?

"The Nazis are Communist"

wait

wot

(Image)

Whoa, whoa, whoa! No, the Nazis weren't communists! Heck, they put the Commies in the camps. Their name may be the National Democratic Socialist German Worker's Party, but they weren't communists any more than the North Koreans are really a "Democratic People's Republic". Generally, if a nation's name (IRL) says "Democratic" or "People's Republic", it's not.

Wow, you leftists get triggered very easily don't you? Maybe communist is the wrong word, is socialist better?

You like to forget the fact that Nazi Germany sized private property from Jewish people, also had free healthcare and that Hitler admitted that he was a leftist

Also there are tons of videos proving it as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzA7QomW4kY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35Rini9Yu0M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uYEovjx5mg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bNRgw0g-_w

Ah, yes, the famous Nazi free healthcare. Which was instituted 50 years before the Nazis came to power, by that arch-commie Otto von Bismarck! You know, the guy so socialist historians describe him as an "arch-conservative."

And as for seizure of private property, they then turned this over to German companies. It's not exactly like they were nationalizing it. The rest of Nazi policies aren't exactly easily described as "left-wing." I'll let the Encyclopedia Britannica explain:

However, the economic programs of the great majority of fascist movements were extremely conservative, favouring the wealthy far more than the middle class and the working class. Their talk of national “socialism” was quite fraudulent in this respect. Although some workers were duped by it before the fascists came to power, most remained loyal to the traditional antifascist parties of the left. As historian John Weiss noted, “Property and income distribution and the traditional class structure remained roughly the same under fascist rule. What changes there were favored the old elites or certain segments of the party leadership.” Historian Roger Eatwell concurred: “If a revolution is understood to mean a significant shift in class relations, including a redistribution of income and wealth, there was no Nazi revolution.”

Although Hitler claimed that the Nazi Party was more “socialist” than its conservative rivals, he opposed any Marxist-inspired nationalization of major industries. On May 2, 1933, he abolished all free trade unions in Germany, and his minister of labour, Robert Ley, later declared that it was necessary “to restore absolute leadership to the natural leader of the factory, that is, the employer.” Nazi “anticapitalism,” such as it was, was aimed primarily at Jewish capitalism; non-Jewish capitalists were allowed to keep their companies and their wealth, a distinction that was made in the Nazi Party’s original program and never changed

EDIT: Formatting.

[Jelmatt]

In re: to the actual OP: "since when is Greeks caring for Greeks... racist?"

It's not. Nationalism is not inherently racist. Hell, even ultranationalism isn't. The reason people call it neo-Nazi and racist is because the actual leaders and MPs of the party admire military dictators and Nazi leaders, use Nazi salutes and symbols, and describe themselves as racists--openly, without any shyness. Combined with the fact that their parliamentary leader describes himself as a "faithful soldier of the National Socialist idea and nothing else" and wrote an article ending like this...

1987, 42 years later, with our thought and soul given to the last great battle, with our thought and soul given to the black and red banners, with our thought and soul given to the memory of our great Leader, we raise our right hand up, we salute the Sun and with the courage, that is compelled by our military honor and our National Socialist duty we shout full of passion, faith to the future and our visions: HEIL HITLER!

So, yeah, neo-Nazi suddenly isn't sounding that far off the mark.

[Collatis]

golden shitheads.

^^^

[Major-Tom]

Right-wing populists of the Trump variety, don't be fooled. Golden Dawn represents actual fascism, and not the kind that's thrown around loosely. They actually admit that they are racist. They would rather see a dictatorial state, and worship the dictator Ioannis Metaxas. They aren't afraid of touting the third position, contrary to both capitalist and socialist ideals.

I don't see why all parts of the political spectrum can't agree on condemning these neo-nazis. You can see who endorses them to distinguish the conservatives from the closet fascists.

Even right populists should be quick to say "fuck you" to groups like Golden Dawn

[Major-Tom]

Nazis and fascists deserve no voice. I hope their evil movement comes to a swift and abrupt end

Yea! Because screw freedom of speech amirite?

While I agree that Golden Dawn should have the right to say whatever shitty drivel comes out of their mouth, it is worth noting that they would likely be very opposed to free speech given their public actions.

[Futurism]

They are what Greece deserves.

[Drakonisch]

They are what Greece deserves.

Is your context good or bad?

If good, thanks for agreeing.

If bad, then

[Germanic Templars]

Well this should be a rather interesting development to watch. If economic hard times continue, maybe Golden Dawn will take over Greece.... Oh boy, those immigrants are gonna have a "fun" time.

[Washington Resistance Army]

They're Neo-Nazi assholes, no I don't support them.

[Cedoria]

I personally hope they are swiftly and decisively crushed by the democratic parties of Greece and thrown back onto the dungheap of history where they belong...

[Jelmatt]

I personally hope they are swiftly and decisively crushed by the democratic parties of Greece and thrown back onto the dungheap of history where they belong...

I hope so too, but that seems a while off...

[Cedoria]

I personally hope they are swiftly and decisively crushed by the democratic parties of Greece and thrown back onto the dungheap of history where they belong...

I hope so too, but that seems a while off...

Yep, how quickly we forget the lessons of the past. the ONLY method that works with these people is the utter repudiation of EVERYTHING they argue for, by force if necessary.

[Futurism]

They are what Greece deserves.

Is your context good or bad?

If good, thanks for agreeing.

If bad, then

I support them.