NationStates

Neo Balka wrote:

Chessmistress wrote:
This is the only important point.

UK (and many other countries, too) just need a law like they have in Brazil:



http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-31810284

A law against femicide, by this way even dumb judges will understand that times are going to change.

What in the name of god is femicide?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femicide

Femicide or feminicide is a sex-based hate crime term, broadly defined as the killing of women but definitions vary depending on the cultural context.[1] Feminist author Diana E. H. Russell is one of the early pioneers of the term, and she currently defines the word as "the killing of females by males because they are females". Other feminists place emphasis on the intention or purpose of the act being directed at females specifically because they are female; others include the killing of females by females.

Brazil has been the very first nation to extend the definition even to acts of violence motivated by contempt or discrimination against women.

I can't seem to find the actual break down of the case online, so it seems pretty pointless to jump to assertions based on the pitiful amount of information we have from news reports (for example, we're given no hard evidence for the claim that he forced her to drink bleach or force-feed her pills). There are also far more factors that are likely to have been taken into account when considering the verdict, and to claim the judge based his verdict solely on the fact he believed she wasn't vulnerable is liable to be a misrepresentation of the case and it's content.

Chessmistress wrote:

USS Monitor wrote:I don't think how many friends the victim has or how educated they are should affect criminal sentencing. It's still the same crime regardless of who it was committed against.

Yes, but also not.
While I'm sure that her status doesn't matter, and we agree about that, I also wish to highlight that this crime also clearly shows contempt against the woman just because she was a woman.
That's why a law specifically against femicide would be important.

I don't think it needs to be handled differently from if someone did this to a guy. This would still be an obvious problem regardless of the gender of the people involved.

USS Monitor wrote:I don't think how many friends the victim has or how educated they are should affect criminal sentencing. It's still the same crime regardless of who it was committed against.

It's the same crime but under the law it is worse if the person is vulnerable.

Chessmistress wrote:

Neo Balka wrote:
What in the name of god is femicide?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femicide

Femicide or feminicide is a sex-based hate crime term, broadly defined as the killing of women but definitions vary depending on the cultural context.[1] Feminist author Diana E. H. Russell is one of the early pioneers of the term, and she currently defines the word as "the killing of females by males because they are females". Other feminists place emphasis on the intention or purpose of the act being directed at females specifically because they are female; others include the killing of females by females.

Brazil has been the very first nation to extend the definition even to acts of violence motivated by contempt or discrimination against women.

Well that is a retarded idea if you believe in equality.

Chessmistress wrote:[...] I also wish to highlight that this crime also clearly shows contempt against the woman just because she was a woman.

There is no evidence for this claim.

Neo Balka wrote:

What in the name of god is femicide?

Killing of a woman which is contrasted from Homicide which is killing of a human. The word and idea could have done with some workshopping.

Des-Bal wrote:

Neo Balka wrote:

What in the name of god is femicide?

Killing of a woman which is contrasted from Homicide which is killing of a human. The word and idea could have done with some workshopping.

So its like killing a human...except its a woman?
So if i kill a man, its Manicide?

Um... I'm pretty sure this falls into attempted murder territory.

Neo Balka wrote:

Des-Bal wrote:
Killing of a woman which is contrasted from Homicide which is killing of a human. The word and idea could have done with some workshopping.

So its like killing a human...except its a woman?
So if i kill a man, its Manicide?

Androcide, technically.

Both of these -cides have defintions far too ambiguous to exist as separate laws to homicide, in my opinion. The only situation I can even think that they'd apply is in countries that have a clear preference to male fetuses over female fetuses (or vice versa), and thus choose to abort female fetuses on the basis that they are female.

Neo Balka wrote:

Des-Bal wrote:
Killing of a woman which is contrasted from Homicide which is killing of a human. The word and idea could have done with some workshopping.

So its like killing a human...except its a woman?
So if i kill a man, its Manicide?

Androcide.

There's also: Fratricide (Borther), Patricide (Father), Matricide (Mother), and Sororicide (Sister).

New haven america wrote:Um... I'm pretty sure this falls into attempted murder territory.

And you're sure of this on the basis that you read a news article that has a pitiful fraction of the court case and all the evidence (or lack-there-of) of the charges therein?

Bressen wrote:

Neo Balka wrote:
So its like killing a human...except its a woman?
So if i kill a man, its Manicide?

Androcide, technically.

Both of these -cides have defintions far too ambiguous to exist as separate laws to homicide, in my opinion. The only situation I can even think that they'd apply is in countries that have a clear preference to male fetuses over female fetuses (or vice versa), and thus choose to abort female fetuses on the basis that they are female.

Why the fuck cant we have ONE clear cut term for Murder?

WHY?

Chessmistress wrote:

Neo Balka wrote:
What in the name of god is femicide?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femicide

Femicide or feminicide is a sex-based hate crime term, broadly defined as the killing of women but definitions vary depending on the cultural context.[1] Feminist author Diana E. H. Russell is one of the early pioneers of the term, and she currently defines the word as "the killing of females by males because they are females". Other feminists place emphasis on the intention or purpose of the act being directed at females specifically because they are female; others include the killing of females by females.

Brazil has been the very first nation to extend the definition even to acts of violence motivated by contempt or discrimination against women.

For what it's worth, literal femicide also forms the basis of plot of the science fiction short story 'The Screwfly Solution' by Raccoona Sheldon, aka James Tiptree, Jr., aka Alice Sheldon.

If you haven't read the story, Chessmistress, I think you might enjoy it. In case there's any doubt, I'm entirely sincere.

Neo Balka wrote:

Bressen wrote:Androcide, technically.

Both of these -cides have defintions far too ambiguous to exist as separate laws to homicide, in my opinion. The only situation I can even think that they'd apply is in countries that have a clear preference to male fetuses over female fetuses (or vice versa), and thus choose to abort female fetuses on the basis that they are female.

Why the fuck cant we have ONE clear cut term for Murder?

WHY?

Moreso, it's far easier for concepts such as femicide, androcide and any other discriminatory motivation for homicide to be aggravating factors (that is, factors that make the sentencing harsher) rather than separate laws altogether.

Des-Bal wrote:

USS Monitor wrote:I don't think how many friends the victim has or how educated they are should affect criminal sentencing. It's still the same crime regardless of who it was committed against.

It's the same crime but under the law it is worse if the person is vulnerable.

Exactly.
That's the basis of the law against femicide: it's one of the very first laws officially recognizing that women are more vulnerable to some kinds of violence due the patriarchal structure of the society.
This is the basis for achieving full, substantive, true, equality.

Bressen wrote:

New haven america wrote:Um... I'm pretty sure this falls into attempted murder territory.

And you're sure of this on the basis that you read a news article that has a pitiful fraction of the court case and all the evidence (or lack-there-of) of the charges therein?

He tried to force her to swallow bleach and medicine tablets in order to get her to kill herself, and then when she couldn't, proceeded to beat her with a bat.

Yeah, no, this is definitely attempted murder.

Neo Balka wrote:

Bressen wrote:Androcide, technically.

Both of these -cides have defintions far too ambiguous to exist as separate laws to homicide, in my opinion. The only situation I can even think that they'd apply is in countries that have a clear preference to male fetuses over female fetuses (or vice versa), and thus choose to abort female fetuses on the basis that they are female.

Why the fuck cant we have ONE clear cut term for Murder?

WHY?

Because there are several types of murder.

Chessmistress wrote:

Des-Bal wrote:
It's the same crime but under the law it is worse if the person is vulnerable.

Exactly.
That's the basis of the law against femicide: it's one of the very first laws officially recognizing that women are more vulnerable to some kinds of violence due the patriarchal structure of the society.
This is the basis for achieving full, substantive, true, equality.

[BIG MAN TYRONE LAUGHING FOR 20 EONS]

New haven america wrote:

Neo Balka wrote:
Why the fuck cant we have ONE clear cut term for Murder?

WHY?

Because there are several types of murder.

All result in the same thing.

Someone, man or woman or father or Mother....is know dead via premeditated or other means of murder.

Chessmistress wrote:

Des-Bal wrote:
It's the same crime but under the law it is worse if the person is vulnerable.

Exactly.
That's the basis of the law against femicide: it's one of the very first laws officially recognizing that women are more vulnerable to some kinds of violence due the patriarchal structure of the society.
This is the basis for achieving full, substantive, true, equality.

The claim of a patriarchy is all conjecture with no objective evidence and should have absolutely no basis in the laws of a nation.

What's more, just because women may be more vulnerable to certain types of violence does not mean that when these certain types of violence are committed against them, they are committed on the basis that they are women and that factor alone.

The Archregimancy wrote:

Chessmistress wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femicide



Brazil has been the very first nation to extend the definition even to acts of violence motivated by contempt or discrimination against women.

For what it's worth, literal femicide also forms the basis of plot of the science fiction short story 'The Screwfly Solution' by Raccoona Sheldon, aka James Tiptree, Jr., aka Alice Sheldon.

If you haven't read the story, Chessmistress, I think you might enjoy it. In case there's any doubt, I'm entirely sincere.

I'm checking the name of the author, never heard before, it seems an old sci-fi author.
Thank you for the suggestion, I'll read it.

New haven america wrote:

Neo Balka wrote:
Why the fuck cant we have ONE clear cut term for Murder?

WHY?

Because there are several types of murder.

Such as?

Chessmistress wrote:

Des-Bal wrote:
It's the same crime but under the law it is worse if the person is vulnerable.

Exactly.
That's the basis of the law against femicide: it's one of the very first laws officially recognizing that women are more vulnerable to some kinds of violence due the patriarchal structure of the society.
This is the basis for achieving full, substantive, true, equality.

And then in your perfect world, having women rule over men and dictate what societal role people should have, whether they like them or not.

Equality at it's finest.

Bressen wrote:

New haven america wrote:Because there are several types of murder.

Such as?

Patricide (Father), Matricide (Mother), Fratricide (Brother), Sororicide (Sister), ect...

English is a fun language.