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Is it time to get rid of Congress?

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Skyviolia
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Founded: Sep 04, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Skyviolia » Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:57 pm

You do know that power concentrated in the executive branch (the King) was one of the many reasons we rebelled from Great Britain. We were so paranoid about a strong executive that we didn't even have one in the Articles of Confederation.
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Nocturnalis
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Postby Nocturnalis » Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:09 pm

Ifreann wrote:That's less amusing, but does undermine the point about the superiority of authoritarian systems of government.

So yay?

Authoritarian governments, as a general rule, persist longer and are more stable than democratic/mob rule governments. Every single democratic state that exists today was first formed sometime within the last 250 years - a long time by the standard of an individual lifetime, but an insignificant span of time in comparison to the sheer millennia of authoritarian governance. It is only a quirk of the last century that democracy has managed to last this long.

So if one considers order and stability to be the deciding factor in deciding which government form is superior (as some in this thread would, judging by the responses), then authoritarian governments are by and large superior.
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United Ambera
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Ex-Nation

Postby United Ambera » Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:10 pm

American Imperial Realm wrote:
United Ambera wrote:"Empower the Executive"
Yeah, that will surely fulfill the direct will of the people (sarcasm if you couldn't tell)
And that piece of paper is what help found and develop America, to simply get rid of it would harm the nation in many ways.
It is true that many members of Congress are corrupt, but completely switching to a system of near totalitarian scale wouldn't give people more will over the Government and wouldn't serve them in any way.


It would serve the will of the people better than Congress or the current ruling party ever could. The Bushes and Clintons of the world who dominate, and the people like Trump... They're the standard in our failed dual-party system. It's time to throw off the shackles of established oppression and throw the whole corrupt, rotten structure away.

A strong executive who is able to secure our Race and our nation is what we need. The people are generally not very intelligent, and don't bother learning about the issues. They vote their feelings, not their logic. The problem with the liberal ideology generally.

We need a strong leader who will deport non-whites, who will create policies to preserve the white character of our nation. We need a leader who will institute universal healthcare over the whims of the electorate, someone who will not let weakness hinder us from the necessary policies to exterminate our enemies, such as ISIS.

Gloves off, enemies under ground. That's how it has to be done.

You say we need to throw the whole corrupt, rotten structure away, yet allowing a single branch, like the Executive branch to hold the most power wouldn't serve the people at all. It would only serve the President who is in charge. In fact, allowing the Executive would be a lot more corrupt than our current system could ever be. Once you give all the power to the Executive, people are going to see tyranny written all over it and quickly overthrow it, no matter if it would serve out their will or not.

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USS Monitor
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Postby USS Monitor » Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:42 pm

Nocturnalis wrote:
Ifreann wrote:That's less amusing, but does undermine the point about the superiority of authoritarian systems of government.

So yay?

Authoritarian governments, as a general rule, persist longer and are more stable than democratic/mob rule governments. Every single democratic state that exists today was first formed sometime within the last 250 years - a long time by the standard of an individual lifetime, but an insignificant span of time in comparison to the sheer millennia of authoritarian governance. It is only a quirk of the last century that democracy has managed to last this long.

So if one considers order and stability to be the deciding factor in deciding which government form is superior (as some in this thread would, judging by the responses), then authoritarian governments are by and large superior.


Changes in technology, particularly communication technology, have an effect on political systems.

It is hard to organize elections in a low-tech civilization because the challenges of communicating over large distances make it difficult to collect and tabulate everyone's vote. This is why large low-tech civilizations gravitate more toward authoritarian systems that don't need as much communication to function.
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Grave_n_idle
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Postby Grave_n_idle » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:07 pm

Great Minarchistan wrote:
Grave_n_idle wrote:
Taller.

I think you meant taller than Hillary.

There's literally no metric on which he is better. Except, maybe, height.


His health is (debatably) better than Hillary's, despite the fact he is fat.


You think?

He's morbidly obese, and she campaigned even when she had pneumonia. I think you're gonna have to give this one to Hillary.
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Grave_n_idle
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Ex-Nation

Postby Grave_n_idle » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:09 pm

American Imperial Realm wrote:
Grave_n_idle wrote:
Taller.

I think you meant taller than Hillary.

There's literally no metric on which he is better. Except, maybe, height.


Well, he also speaks better than hillary. he's more personable than hillary.


He's verbally illiterate. He has a speaking age of about 6. Not buying that.

As for more personable - arguable. I think Hillary scores much better with educated audiences.
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Singularity Multiversal Travel Empire
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Ex-Nation

Postby Singularity Multiversal Travel Empire » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:10 pm

USS Monitor wrote:
Nocturnalis wrote:Authoritarian governments, as a general rule, persist longer and are more stable than democratic/mob rule governments. Every single democratic state that exists today was first formed sometime within the last 250 years - a long time by the standard of an individual lifetime, but an insignificant span of time in comparison to the sheer millennia of authoritarian governance. It is only a quirk of the last century that democracy has managed to last this long.

So if one considers order and stability to be the deciding factor in deciding which government form is superior (as some in this thread would, judging by the responses), then authoritarian governments are by and large superior.


Changes in technology, particularly communication technology, have an effect on political systems.

It is hard to organize elections in a low-tech civilization because the challenges of communicating over large distances make it difficult to collect and tabulate everyone's vote. This is why large low-tech civilizations gravitate more toward authoritarian systems that don't need as much communication to function.

The moment they reach a certain complexity threshold, they start having incessant civil wars until they fragment.
Civil wars that they usually have anyway.
Utter bullshit to claim that authoritarianism is any sort of universal stability guarantee. Sure we might have a civil war every 40 years but it beats having elections 10x as often :roll:
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A Humanist Resurrection
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Ex-Nation

Postby A Humanist Resurrection » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:21 pm

Nocturnalis wrote:Authoritarian governments, as a general rule, persist longer and are more stable than democratic/mob rule governments. Every single democratic state that exists today was first formed sometime within the last 250 years - a long time by the standard of an individual lifetime, but an insignificant span of time in comparison to the sheer millennia of authoritarian governance. It is only a quirk of the last century that democracy has managed to last this long.


You're potentially confusing "government" with "state/regime." It's important not to do this, because they are not the same thing. Democratic governments are, in fact, highly unstable, typically being overthrown every few years or so. The trick, of course, is that democratic states/regimes are designed to do this peacefully. On purpose. Cause more peaceful/less bloody transitions of government power are objectively better.

Now, if we wanna measure the value of systems of governance merely by longevity (for the sake of argument, since this is actually a highly silly thing to do), then the extremely decentralized, highly (if imperfectly) egalitarian, (arguably) proto-democratic primitive communism of the earliest hunter-gatherer and/or nomadic people has got everything else beat by a lot.
Last edited by A Humanist Resurrection on Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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The Portland Territory
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Portland Territory » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:23 pm

No thanks
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Antoura
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Postby Antoura » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:23 pm

Yes, they should be replaced forthwith and posthaste by directly democratic people's assemblies.

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The Portland Territory
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Postby The Portland Territory » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:25 pm

Antoura wrote:Yes, they should be replaced forthwith and posthaste by directly democratic people's assemblies.

I mean, I'm in more of a support for the Swiss model, but as of now, there's nothing really wrong with how Congress is set up. Rather, it's the people in it that are the problem
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Pro: Absolute Monarchy, Lex Rex, Subsidiarity, Guild Capitalism, Property Rights, Tridentine Catholicism, Unlimited Gun Rights, Hierarchy, Traditionalism, Ethnic Nationalism, Irredentism
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Antoura
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Postby Antoura » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:29 pm

The Portland Territory wrote:
Antoura wrote:Yes, they should be replaced forthwith and posthaste by directly democratic people's assemblies.

I mean, I'm in more of a support for the Swiss model, but as of now, there's nothing really wrong with how Congress is set up. Rather, it's the people in it that are the problem


The problem is that the institution itself and the political process itself creates those kinds of people. Even if a well meaning and capable idealist is by some miracle elected, they will inevitably be turned into a Congress critter.

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Infected Mushroom
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:40 pm

Soyouso wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
If everyone gets a say, then the only logical outcome is that you're going to get mediocre to poor governance outcomes because not everyone is equally qualified to make decisions.

The optimal way to govern should be to find a way to make the decisions of those who are most qualified count the most.

If you're going to operate a military campaign, you don't want everyone to have a say. You want the best military minds working on it. Same with any medical, commercial, technological campaign... It's the same principle with governance.

If you see a bad dictatorship the correct answer isn't to go... "Well let's give everyone a say," that just guarantees mediocre to poor outcomes.

It should be... "Well lets look for the right group to take command."

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Infected Mushroom
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:41 pm

Jute wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
If everyone gets a say, then the only logical outcome is that you're going to get mediocre to poor governance outcomes because not everyone is equally qualified to make decisions.

The optimal way to govern should be to find a way to make the decisions of those who are most qualified count the most.

If you're going to operate a military campaign, you don't want everyone to have a say. You want the best military minds working on it. Same with any medical, commercial, technological campaign... It's the same principle with governance.

If you see a bad dictatorship the correct answer isn't to go... "Well let's give everyone a say," that just guarantees mediocre to poor outcomes.

It should be... "Well lets look for the right group to take command."

Which is exactly what democracy is about, looking for and electing (ideally) the best and most capable leader or president.


The problem is that the voting population tends to consist of poorly qualified individuals
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Biancavilla
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Postby Biancavilla » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:42 pm

or instead of completely abolishing congess and leaving one person almost completely unchecked we could do something like establish term limits
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USS Monitor
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Postby USS Monitor » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:42 pm

Singularity Multiversal Travel Empire wrote:
USS Monitor wrote:
Changes in technology, particularly communication technology, have an effect on political systems.

It is hard to organize elections in a low-tech civilization because the challenges of communicating over large distances make it difficult to collect and tabulate everyone's vote. This is why large low-tech civilizations gravitate more toward authoritarian systems that don't need as much communication to function.

The moment they reach a certain complexity threshold, they start having incessant civil wars until they fragment.
Civil wars that they usually have anyway.
Utter bullshit to claim that authoritarianism is any sort of universal stability guarantee. Sure we might have a civil war every 40 years but it beats having elections 10x as often :roll:


It's not a universal stability guarantee, but there have been some authoritarian systems that were quite stable. The Tokugawa shogunate lasted 250 years and had no major wars. Not every authoritarian regime will be able to replicate that success, but it is still a success worthy of respect.

(FTR, I was not arguing in favor of authoritarian systems. I was only explaining why they were more common in the past.)
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Abidawe
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Postby Abidawe » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:43 pm

USS Monitor wrote:Cos Trump's sky-high approval rating totally suggests that his bullshit is the direct will of the people... :roll:


*upvotes*

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Singularity Multiversal Travel Empire
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Postby Singularity Multiversal Travel Empire » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:45 pm

USS Monitor wrote:
Singularity Multiversal Travel Empire wrote:The moment they reach a certain complexity threshold, they start having incessant civil wars until they fragment.
Civil wars that they usually have anyway.
Utter bullshit to claim that authoritarianism is any sort of universal stability guarantee. Sure we might have a civil war every 40 years but it beats having elections 10x as often :roll:


It's not a universal stability guarantee, but there have been some authoritarian systems that were quite stable. The Tokugawa shogunate lasted 250 years and had no major wars. Not every authoritarian regime will be able to replicate that success, but it is still a success worthy of respect.

(FTR, I was not arguing in favor of authoritarian systems. I was only explaining why they were more common in the past.)

I understand that.
Officially an A-class civilization,
The Singularity Multiversal Travel Empire (SMTE) doesn't care!
but really a J-class civilization.
"Sapient self-governance is overrated. It all fails eventually. Have fun while you can."
-Andrew, the Dark Lord
"Do nothing to upset the passage of the Willpower of the Universe, and do all to preserve it."
The Emperor
"Life, death...all that matters is that we hold the line against entropy and thermodynamics. Entropy is death, the most ultimate and permanent."
an Imperial Senator, Tiberius Artim
THE EMPEROR PRESERVES

Led by the 2 billion member Imperial Senate- AND THE DARK LORD.

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Thermodolia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:05 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Jute wrote:Which is exactly what democracy is about, looking for and electing (ideally) the best and most capable leader or president.


The problem is that the voting population tends to consist of poorly qualified individuals

Good thing the only qualification needed for voting is age.
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Singularity Multiversal Travel Empire
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Postby Singularity Multiversal Travel Empire » Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:07 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
The problem is that the voting population tends to consist of poorly qualified individuals

Good thing the only qualification needed for voting is age.

Otherwise there would be civil wars over the qualifications becoming that voters must be "selfless public-minded magnates" which is what seems to be the fashion for authoritarians of all stripes to ask for and not receive.
Officially an A-class civilization,
The Singularity Multiversal Travel Empire (SMTE) doesn't care!
but really a J-class civilization.
"Sapient self-governance is overrated. It all fails eventually. Have fun while you can."
-Andrew, the Dark Lord
"Do nothing to upset the passage of the Willpower of the Universe, and do all to preserve it."
The Emperor
"Life, death...all that matters is that we hold the line against entropy and thermodynamics. Entropy is death, the most ultimate and permanent."
an Imperial Senator, Tiberius Artim
THE EMPEROR PRESERVES

Led by the 2 billion member Imperial Senate- AND THE DARK LORD.

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Antoura
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Postby Antoura » Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:07 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:The problem is that the voting population tends to consist of poorly qualified individuals


And who decides who is "qualified"? You? :eyebrow:

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Singularity Multiversal Travel Empire
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Postby Singularity Multiversal Travel Empire » Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:09 pm

Antoura wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:The problem is that the voting population tends to consist of poorly qualified individuals


And who decides who is "qualified"? You? :eyebrow:

No, the half-perfect philosopher-kings who would be able to pick their own kind out of a crowd.
Officially an A-class civilization,
The Singularity Multiversal Travel Empire (SMTE) doesn't care!
but really a J-class civilization.
"Sapient self-governance is overrated. It all fails eventually. Have fun while you can."
-Andrew, the Dark Lord
"Do nothing to upset the passage of the Willpower of the Universe, and do all to preserve it."
The Emperor
"Life, death...all that matters is that we hold the line against entropy and thermodynamics. Entropy is death, the most ultimate and permanent."
an Imperial Senator, Tiberius Artim
THE EMPEROR PRESERVES

Led by the 2 billion member Imperial Senate- AND THE DARK LORD.

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Empire of Narnia
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Corporate Police State

Postby Empire of Narnia » Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:23 pm

Term Limits for Congress would solve a lot of it.

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Thermodolia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:24 pm

Antoura wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:The problem is that the voting population tends to consist of poorly qualified individuals


And who decides who is "qualified"? You? :eyebrow:

Oh no IM has more pressing matters to attend to, like banning dogs and making honor killings a thing
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The Greater Ohio Valley
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:25 pm

It's time to start voting people out of Congress, not to get rid of it.
Hey, it's up to us to take out Umbrella.

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Political Compass
Will retake these every-so-often.
PRO:
- Free speech
- Gun rights
- LGBTQ rights
- Choice
- Separation of church and state/secularism
- Gender/sexual equality
- Racial equality
- Due process
- Equal protection of the laws
- Cannabis legalization
- Social Democracy
- Universal Healthcare
ANTI:
- Fascism/Nazism
- Racial supremacy
- Totalitarianism
- Conservatism
- Racism
- Sexism
- Religious extremism
- Theocracy
- Jingoism
- Nationalism
- War on Drugs
- Anarchism
- Anti-Intellectualism
- Laissez-faire Capitalism

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