Possible "Terrorist Incident" in Westminster, 4 killed

[The Realm of Lordaeron]

Deeming something morally wrong, and committing terrorist acts, honour killings or mass murder and intimidation to enforce it, are entirely different. Not many Christians want to ban sodomy or kill their daughters for having pre-marital sex, not these days anyway. We left all those ideas in the past. Many Muslims have not.

But a sizable portion of Christians in the US do want to ban sodomy or pre-marital sex. And honor killings, for all the hype they get, are extraordinarily rare, and widely condemned by the vast, vast majority of Muslims. Again, please provide proof of that claim that they "haven't left those ideas in the past".

Let's see.

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the- ... -morality/

[Central Asian Republics]

Turban signals possible Sikh. Sikhs do not commit terrorist acts very often at all. Being brown does not necessarily mean you're a terrorist. After all, there are Christians from Iraq. It's a matter of discretion, not fear or Ignorance. 9/11 was not perpetrated by a group of atheists. Many of the leaders of terrorist groups/cells are highly educated, doctors, PHDs etc. This is an ideology that has very wide currency and sympathy within Islam and it's diaspora.

It's not ignorance to point it out, it's folly not to recognize it. The people who opened fire in Paris, and the Orlando nightclub shooter didn't shout "Atheist Akbar!" there's a religious element, sure. But also a cultural one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassina ... ira_Gandhi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_182

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalistan ... nt_outfits

Both of those events happened more than 30 years ago. Would you accept it if I used the Nazis as proof of how some Germans hate the Jews today? I don't think so.

[Imperializt Russia]

Your point does not stand on first aid. What possible benefit could that have brought in this particular case? Can you point to any lives that would have been saved?

Why are you people so fixed on not teaching first aid in schools?

We're not. We're confused as to your fixation on it.

First aid? Sure. Counter-terror response, what you are suggesting it for? No.

Iffy mentioned the old IRA trick of placing two bombs to get the rescuers.

So did Imperializt Russia.

I did not.

I referenced shrapnel (ie explosive) injuries as something a bit beyond the treatment capabilities of a school leaver who had done some first aid training in school.

[Gauthier]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassina ... ira_Gandhi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_182

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalistan ... nt_outfits

Both of those events happened more than 30 years ago. Would you accept it if I used the Nazis as proof of how some Germans hate the Jews today? I don't think so.

People still use some Palestinian mufti allying with the Germans during WW2 as proof all Muslims are Nazis.

[Central Asian Republics]

Both of those events happened more than 30 years ago. Would you accept it if I used the Nazis as proof of how some Germans hate the Jews today? I don't think so.

People still use some Palestinian mufti allying with the Germans during WW2 as proof all Muslims are Nazis.

Do they now? Even if what you say is true, you're forgetting the fact that 2 wrongs don't make a right.

[The Klishi Islands]

But a sizable portion of Christians in the US do want to ban sodomy or pre-marital sex. And honor killings, for all the hype they get, are extraordinarily rare, and widely condemned by the vast, vast majority of Muslims. Again, please provide proof of that claim that they "haven't left those ideas in the past".

Let's see.

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the- ... -morality/

That's a real shame on the LGBT portion. It's not exactly an uncommon view worldwide, though, so unless you also plan on banning Chinese and Russians, it's not a great argument here.

The honor killings portion is, frankly, saddening. I wonder if you can provide proof that those who come to America actually follow through on those beliefs? Widespread, that is. I know there have been one or two cases, which is tragic, but not a justification for banning an entire religion. In my AP Comparative Government class, when we were studying Nigeria, it was noted that in these surveys Muslims will often give what they think is the "faithful Muslim" answer even though they would never follow through on it.

In addition, I have to wonder how one would screen for personal beliefs in an immigration interview.

[Vassenor]

Do we even know he's a Muslim though? All we have at the moment is a photo of a man of south-asian ethnicity and the same logic that led to a spike in hate crimes against Sikhs and Hindus.

Yes, yes we do.

It damaging how people will bury themselves in the saND not confront the truth. The ironic part is, if they ever win it is going to be your LGBTQ ass up against the wall, and dead. So by all means keep ignoring what is happening, don't let the people know the truth and think for themselves.

I'm more worried about the old white guys using warped ideas about Christian teachings and "family values" as an excuse to force anti-LGBT laws through.

[Gauthier]

Yes, yes we do.

It damaging how people will bury themselves in the saND not confront the truth. The ironic part is, if they ever win it is going to be your LGBTQ ass up against the wall, and dead. So by all means keep ignoring what is happening, don't let the people know the truth and think for themselves.

I'm more worried about the old white guys using warped ideas about Christian teachings and "family values" as an excuse to force anti-LGBT laws through.

The old white guys probably cruise for young boys when they think the public isn't watching, which makes for blackmail potential.

[The Realm of Lordaeron]

Yes, yes we do.

It damaging how people will bury themselves in the saND not confront the truth. The ironic part is, if they ever win it is going to be your LGBTQ ass up against the wall, and dead. So by all means keep ignoring what is happening, don't let the people know the truth and think for themselves.

I'm more worried about the old white guys using warped ideas about Christian teachings and "family values" as an excuse to force anti-LGBT laws through.

That's just because of number. If Muslims were the majority, you'd be lucky not to have laws passed that end up getting you beheaded, shot, hung or castrated. E.G. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Iran, etc.

[Central Asian Republics]

Yes, yes we do.

It damaging how people will bury themselves in the saND not confront the truth. The ironic part is, if they ever win it is going to be your LGBTQ ass up against the wall, and dead. So by all means keep ignoring what is happening, don't let the people know the truth and think for themselves.

I'm more worried about the old white guys using warped ideas about Christian teachings and "family values" as an excuse to force anti-LGBT laws through.

Even the majority of Catholics over 65 find homosexuality to be acceptable.

[Gauthier]

I'm more worried about the old white guys using warped ideas about Christian teachings and "family values" as an excuse to force anti-LGBT laws through.

That's just because of number. If Muslims were the majority, you'd be lucky not to have laws passed that end up getting you beheaded, shot, hung or castrated. E.G. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Iran, etc.

I forgot that homosexuality is a capital crime in Michigan.

[Ifreann]

Europe is not America. Europe has, frankly, an abysmal integration policy compared to the United States. Muslims in France, for example, are isolated from the rest of the country. I've long said that those countries need to reform, and fast, because there is potential for radicalization there.

It's a perfectly legitimate question, though. If you can't provide proof that your claim that "the real cost of these immigrants is their attitudes on women and Sharia law," then it's not a valid claim.

Also, I assume you condemn native-born-Americans who believe in similarly restrictive policies, like deeming LGB relationships as morally wrong (34%), birth control as morally wrong (8%), or pre-marital sex as morally wrong (29%)?
http://www.gallup.com/poll/183413/ameri ... ssues.aspx

Deeming something morally wrong, and committing terrorist acts, honour killings or mass murder and intimidation to enforce it, are entirely different. Not many Christians want to ban sodomy or kill their daughters for having pre-marital sex, not these days anyway. We left all those ideas in the past. Many Muslims have not.

You should familiarise yourself with souseiseki.txt, my friend. If the British government had half a chance they'd lock up all the gay men they could find who weren't sufficiently in with the Tory party.

[The Realm of Lordaeron]

That's just because of number. If Muslims were the majority, you'd be lucky not to have laws passed that end up getting you beheaded, shot, hung or castrated. E.G. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Iran, etc.

I forgot that homosexuality is a capital crime in Michigan.

Muslims aren't the majority in Michigan and represent less than 1% of the national population.

[Gauthier]

I forgot that homosexuality is a capital crime in Michigan.

Muslims aren't the majority in Michigan and represent less than 1% of the national population.

Calling Muslims locusts. Classy.

[Central Asian Republics]

Muslims aren't the majority in Michigan and represent less than 1% of the national population.

Calling Muslims locusts. Classy.

*Misrepresenting your opponents arguments*. Stay classy.

[Ethel mermania]

Yes, yes we do.

It damaging how people will bury themselves in the saND not confront the truth. The ironic part is, if they ever win it is going to be your LGBTQ ass up against the wall, and dead. So by all means keep ignoring what is happening, don't let the people know the truth and think for themselves.

I'm more worried about the old white guys using warped ideas about Christian teachings and "family values" as an excuse to force anti-LGBT laws through.

If the majority of old white folks, wanted your rights rolled back, it would have already been done. The worst an old fart is going to do to you is yell. "Go to hell faggot", You should worry about the folks who you cant outrun actively trying to kill you.

[Gauthier]

Calling Muslims locusts. Classy.

*Misrepresenting your opponents arguments*. Stay classy.

That's just because of number. If Muslims were the majority, you'd be lucky not to have laws passed that end up getting you beheaded, shot, hung or castrated. E.G. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Iran, etc.

Sure looks like he called Muslims locusts that only act up and oppress LGBTs when their numbers reach critical mass there.

[Ifreann]

I'm more worried about the old white guys using warped ideas about Christian teachings and "family values" as an excuse to force anti-LGBT laws through.

If the majority of old white folks, wanted your rights rolled back, it would have already been done.

No, it wouldn't, thanks to foreign courts imposing their laws on Britain. Once Br has successfully Exited then the old men(and their new Iron Lady) will be able to send Vass to the dungeons without the bloody Euros stopping them this time.

[Imperializt Russia]

I'm more worried about the old white guys using warped ideas about Christian teachings and "family values" as an excuse to force anti-LGBT laws through.

Even the majority of Catholics over 65 find homosexuality to be acceptable.

In the US, a western anglophone country where Catholicism is not the majority view.

Those qualifiers are important.

[Central Asian Republics]

*Misrepresenting your opponents arguments*. Stay classy.

That's just because of number. If Muslims were the majority, you'd be lucky not to have laws passed that end up getting you beheaded, shot, hung or castrated. E.G. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Iran, etc.

Sure looks like he called Muslims locusts that only act up and oppress LGBTs when their numbers reach critical mass there.

No, you're the one that's implying that, not him. Would you label the majority in an election as locusts just because they're large in number? I don't think so, and you probably wouldn't think so either.

[Central Asian Republics]

Even the majority of Catholics over 65 find homosexuality to be acceptable.

In the US, a western anglophone country where Catholicism is not the majority view.

Those qualifiers are important.

My point still stands.

[Vassenor]

In any case this is pretty much a textbook moral panic. Hence why people are desperate for the "us" vs "them" to continue; it's hard to keep that going when people stop othering your folk devils.

[Imperializt Russia]

I'm more worried about the old white guys using warped ideas about Christian teachings and "family values" as an excuse to force anti-LGBT laws through.

If the majority of old white folks, wanted your rights rolled back, it would have already been done. The worst an old fart is going to do to you is yell. "Go to hell faggot", You should worry about the folks who you cant outrun actively trying to kill you.

Possessing homosexual pornography of yourself and any consenting partners was a crime in the UK in 1998, literally because it was homosexual pornography. The law under which this would be prosecuted was passed in 1956.

Without the EU and its associated courts, that may never have been repealed.

What does Brexit look set to move us out of the jurisdiction of, hmm?

[Proctopeo]

Even the majority of Catholics over 65 find homosexuality to be acceptable.

In the US, a western anglophone country where Catholicism is not the majority view.

Those qualifiers are important.

Does Vass live in a western anglophone country where Catholicism is not the majority view?

[Ethel mermania]

If the majority of old white folks, wanted your rights rolled back, it would have already been done.

No, it wouldn't, thanks to foreign courts imposing their laws on Britain. Once Br has successfully Exited then the old men(and their new Iron Lady) will be able to send Vass to the dungeons without the bloody Euros stopping them this time.

We disagree.