Invasion of North Korea

[Novus America]

China does not have the military capability to defeat the U.S. and it's allies, at this point.

It does, however, have the capability to make a big fucking mess, if anyone insists on putting it's back against a wall.

China would suffer enormous casualties and lose not only the entire peninsula, but have it's entire economy destroyed. China would be reverted to third world status for many decades.

Well, sure, but the point is that China isn't the only player who would be in sad shape, should it come down to it. Which is precisely why all the players have adopted "appease DPRK" as the winning strategy.

Regardless of who "wins" or "loses" an invasion of DPRK, for more than fifty years now everyone seems to think it would be a really bad idea.

China would not declare war to protect the North. While obviously they would be strongly opposed to an invasion of the North, they would not destroy their entire economy to save it.

[The Realm of Lordaeron]

It does, however, have the capability to make a big fucking mess, if anyone insists on putting it's back against a wall.



Well, sure, but the point is that China isn't the only player who would be in sad shape, should it come down to it. Which is precisely why all the players have adopted "appease DPRK" as the winning strategy.

Regardless of who "wins" or "loses" an invasion of DPRK, for more than fifty years now everyone seems to think it would be a really bad idea.

China would not declare war to protect the North. While obviously they would be strongly opposed to an invasion of the North, they would not destroy their entire economy to save it.

That was my calculation as well.

[The Realm of Lordaeron]

China does not have the military capability to defeat the U.S. and it's allies, at this point.

It does, however, have the capability to make a big fucking mess, if anyone insists on putting it's back against a wall.

China would suffer enormous casualties and lose not only the entire peninsula, but have it's entire economy destroyed. China would be reverted to third world status for many decades.

Well, sure, but the point is that China isn't the only player who would be in sad shape, should it come down to it. Which is precisely why all the players have adopted "appease DPRK" as the winning strategy.

Regardless of who "wins" or "loses" an invasion of DPRK, for more than fifty years now everyone seems to think it would be a really bad idea.

Cost vs Benefit. Cost of invading N. Korea is deemed higher than benefit. As the North develops it's nuclear program further and goes into ICBM development, those analysis may change.

[A Humanist Resurrection]

Cost vs Benefit. Cost of invading N. Korea is deemed higher than benefit. As the North develops it's nuclear program further and goes into ICBM development, those analysis may change.

Fair enough, although I'd think it safer to let China take the lead in making the cost/benefit determination, so that they're fully on board.

Which, on second thought, might not be that hard to do if the DPRK keeps assassinating people with VX soaked handkerchiefs.

China would not declare war to protect the North. While obviously they would be strongly opposed to an invasion of the North, they would not destroy their entire economy to save it.

To be fair, I did say:

Luckly, with all its financial ties, China is probably sane enough to do everything possible to avoid such a doomsday scenario.

[Gim]

Fair enough, although I'd think it safer to let China take the lead in making the cost/benefit determination, so that they're fully on board.

I wouldn't trust China with anything.

Which, on second thought, might not be that hard to do if the DPRK keeps assassinating people with VX soaked handkerchiefs.

DPRK won't use the same method on civilians. Only crucial members will be victimized, such as Kim Jong Nam.

[A Humanist Resurrection]

DPRK won't use the same method on civilians. Only crucial members will be victimized, such as Kim Jong Nam.

The great thing about VX is that just enough to wet the tip of a needle enough to kill a person. Accidently spill a bit anywhere in the process, and you can easily kill more than just the intended target, whoever they are.

[Gim]

DPRK won't use the same method on civilians. Only crucial members will be victimized, such as Kim Jong Nam.

The great thing about VX is that just enough to wet the tip of a pen is enough to kill a person. Accidently spill a bit anywhere in the process, and you can easily kill more than just the intended target, whoever they are.

Yeah, Kim Jong Nam was killed within 30 minutes, I believe.

*sigh* Killed by a K-pop-loving Vietnamese.

[A Humanist Resurrection]

I wouldn't trust China with anything.

I would trust that China willl pursue China's interests, even if we insanely insist on making doing so as bloody as possible.

[Gim]

I wouldn't trust China with anything.

I would trust that China willl pursue China's interests, even if we insanely insist on making doing so as bloody as possible.

Well, okay.

[A Humanist Resurrection]

Yeah, Kim Jong Nam was killed within 30 minutes, I believe.

He was killed essentially instantly, to the extent that the effect of VX becomes stronger over a very short period of time. Basically, if you don't have the specific antidote autoinjector stuck in your thigh immediately, you're finished. And even if you do, you're still in a bad way.

Which is why continuing to deploy VX in this manner really should change Beijing's assessment of the DPRK's usefulness.

[Gim]

Yeah, Kim Jong Nam was killed within 30 minutes, I believe.

He was killed essentially instantly, to the extent that the effect of VX becomes stronger over a very short period of time. Basically, if you don't have the specific antidote autoinjector stuck in your thigh immediately, you're finished. And even if you do, you're still in a bad way.

Which is why continuing to deploy VX in this manner really should change Beijing's assessment of the DPRK's usefulness.

However, we cannot infer that North Korea will use VX quite frequently. I mean, Kim Jong-Un probably ordered his minions to use that to eliminate his political opponent.

[A Humanist Resurrection]

However, we cannot infer that North Korea will use VX quite frequently. I mean, Kim Jong-Un probably ordered his minions to use that to eliminate his political opponent.

The use of the deadliest know nerve agent in such a way, with such huge potential for collateral civilian death, is unprecidented. Once is enough to conclude that the DPRK has risen to a whole new level of nuttery.

Even their closest ally was like "seriously, what in the fuck?" Which actually lends support to the idea that there is a point where even China will support disposal of the DPRK. Or at least of its present regime.

Which still isn't equivalent to supporting a US/anyone-else invasion, though.

[Peta Kozarska Brigada]

Tbh why are we even on about 4,300 year old claims?

Claims made by an ancient Korean legendary leader, whose date of birth cannot even be verified. Now that I'm reading more into it, I'm starting to think Gim is right. Dangun was a descendant of Heaven itself! How can we argue against that?

No,

HWANGUK WAS REAL

[Gim]

Claims made by an ancient Korean legendary leader, whose date of birth cannot even be verified. Now that I'm reading more into it, I'm starting to think Gim is right. Dangun was a descendant of Heaven itself! How can we argue against that?

No,

HWANGUK WAS REAL

There's a record saying Hwanin bore a son named, "Hwanung", but the last letter of Hwanin, which is "-nin", was actually a corrected letter with a red pen by the Japanese to eliminate any claims to Hwan-guk. Of course, the original last letter was, "-guk".

[Libertas Regionem]

i hate gooks

[Gim]

i hate gooks

Do you even know what they are? And please get back on topic.

THAAD isn't entirely designed to combat North Korean missiles.

[USS Monitor]

i hate gooks

This is pointlessly offensive. *** Warned for trolling ***

[Gim]

The use of the deadliest know nerve agent in such a way, with such huge potential for collateral civilian death, is unprecidented. Once is enough to conclude that the DPRK has risen to a whole new level of nuttery.

Even their closest ally was like "seriously, what in the fuck?" Which actually lends support to the idea that there is a point where even China will support disposal of the DPRK. Or at least of its present regime.

Which still isn't equivalent to supporting a US/anyone-else invasion, though.

They are not entirely irrational; otherwise, they could have used each and every nuclear bomb they have right now.

[Imperializt Russia]

Surprisingly I support it. I'm usually against war, except in rare occasions such as in this one or as earlier this year in The Gambia.

People suffer in North Korea and they will continue suffering, yes you're right many will die and civilians will be killed for either supporting the Kim Regime or Allied forces. But you would free all the future generations from endless suffering and enabling them to enjoy their individual lives and to reach their potential.

I believe that the whole world could unite against N-Korea and with a united force and UNSC resolution we could attack and reunite Korea.

It shouldn't be hard to attack the north from the south, because I think China would stay neutral, we could simply bombard them with artillery in the mountains and strategic posts using airplanes and warships. Then the infantry would simply cross to Pyongyang and a handsome Lithuanian soldier would arrest Kim-Jong Un.

The Kim regime would stand trial for severe human rights abuses in Den Haag at the international court. The newly liberated north Koreans would require a lot of economic aid, if we want to improve their lives.
(Image)

But that's just my opinion, the US would lead this invasion, but I can't accept Trump as the face of freedom, so let's just wait for 4 years first.

This is literally fantastical.

As in, the product of fantasy.

[Internationalist Bastard]

No

[Penguin Union Nation]

The United States needs to rein in its war addiction before it strangles the life out of the entire world.

[Ainin]

Given that over half of South Koreans live in the Seoul-Incheon-Gyeonggi metropolitan region, which would be swiftly and totally decimated within fifteen minutes of the outbreak of war, an invasion of North Korea is a decidedly stupid idea.

[Estonland]

I think this would go like this:
American drones and aircraft bombs North Korean nuclear sites and artillery.
North Koreans advance along the DMZ,they suffer heavy casualties but they just throw men into the fire
Remaining North Korean artillery strikes Seoul.
South Korean forces break out,and start advancing
Built-up US forces would make an airborne or naval landing,like Inchon.
North Korea wouldn't last a month with 1950's equipment.
I think China would not join the conflict directly,as they have large markets in US and NATO
Most China would do would be sending 'volunteer' divisons
In any case North Korea is doomed,unless Kim-Jong Un turns out to be God

[Dooom35796821595]

Given that over half of South Koreans live in the Seoul-Incheon-Gyeonggi metropolitan region, which would be swiftly and totally decimated within fifteen minutes of the outbreak of war, an invasion of North Korea is a decidedly stupid idea.

Which begs the question, why has the South not moved their Capitol several hundred Kilometres south? The Korean War was over a long time ago, yet they continue to build up the metropolis in that region. In the event of war, their deaths would be the fault of the many generations of leadership that kept their people in range of the north. (And North Korea itself, obviously)

[Ainin]

Given that over half of South Koreans live in the Seoul-Incheon-Gyeonggi metropolitan region, which would be swiftly and totally decimated within fifteen minutes of the outbreak of war, an invasion of North Korea is a decidedly stupid idea.

Which begs the question, why has the South not moved their Capitol several hundred Kilometres south? The Korean War was over a long time ago, yet they continue to build up the metropolis in that region. In the event of war, their deaths would be the fault of the many generations of leadership that kept their people in range of the north. (And North Korea itself, obviously)

For the simple reason that no one except a bunch of American neocons with no understanding of the region wants or expects the outbreak of war. Both Koreas know that it is in their self-interest to be at peace. The only people, it seems, that don't realise that are Donald Trump and Rex Tillerson.

And anyways:
1. Moving half your country's population and essentially your entire economy elsewhere is hard, disruptive and not worth it
2. Most of South Korea's government institutions are no longer in the Seoul area anyways, they're in Sejong.