The Death of Free Speech in Europe

[Liriena]

Well, that depends on the country.

so governments can label anything as "hate speech?"

thats some slippery slope.

Not really. If we're talking about liberal democracies, definitions of hate speech would have to be fairly strict so as to not incur in constitutional violations or contradict pre-existing law.

However, different countries define hate speech differently, although the differences are mostly in wording, not in essence.

[Liriena]

Well, that depends on the country.

Why does it depend on country?

Because, while there are constants, not all countries with hate speech laws have identical laws. Wording varies, the kinds of groups protected under hate speech laws vary, and in some cases, like in Germany and Israel, there are historically-inspired specifications.

I guess you couldn't define speech against the Jews as hate speech in Saudi Arabia then.

What an odd thing to say.

[Liriena]

so governments can label anything as "hate speech?"

thats some slippery slope.

That's not what they're saying. They're saying it's not hate speech to speak hatefully against certain groups in certain countries.

In purely legal terms, yes.
In "should be" terms, it's another matter entirely.

[UCE Watchdog of the Puppets]

The Comics Code is coming to European internet users?

[The Empire of Pretantia]

I guess you couldn't define speech against the Jews as hate speech in Saudi Arabia then.

What an odd thing to say.

Odd because there's no free speech in Saudi Arabia anyway?

[Amudarya]

Why does it depend on country?

Because, while there are constants, not all countries with hate speech laws have identical laws. Wording varies, the kinds of groups protected under hate speech laws vary, and in some cases, like in Germany and Israel, there are historically-inspired specifications.

You'd think self-professed ethno-nationalists would understand the concept of local, culturally determined variations in what kind of speech is considered offensive, and would in fact be all for it.

[UCE Watchdog of the Puppets]

Because, while there are constants, not all countries with hate speech laws have identical laws. Wording varies, the kinds of groups protected under hate speech laws vary, and in some cases, like in Germany and Israel, there are historically-inspired specifications.

You'd think self-professed ethno-nationalists would understand the concept of local, culturally determined variations in what kind of speech is considered offensive, and would in fact be all for it.

Thing is, their ethnonationalism is expressed in such terms.

I say we abolish all this nonsense about contextual hate speech laws and make one uniform hate speech law that penalizes incitements to violence against cultural expression groups without exception, extension, or promotion.

[Liriena]

What an odd thing to say.

Odd because there's no free speech in Saudi Arabia anyway?

For one.

[Amudarya]

You'd think self-professed ethno-nationalists would understand the concept of local, culturally determined variations in what kind of speech is considered offensive, and would in fact be all for it.

Thing is, their ethnonationalism is expressed in such terms.

The ones in this thread seem to be scratching their heads over the very idea.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Because, while there are constants, not all countries with hate speech laws have identical laws. Wording varies, the kinds of groups protected under hate speech laws vary, and in some cases, like in Germany and Israel, there are historically-inspired specifications.

You'd think self-professed ethno-nationalists would understand the concept of local, culturally determined variations in what kind of speech is considered offensive, and would in fact be all for it.

Who, me?

[UCE Watchdog of the Puppets]

Thing is, their ethnonationalism is expressed in such terms.

The ones in this thread seem to be scratching their heads over the very idea.

Either that or denouncing its' utility. But then again, Latin American liberals denounced fixed elections before they rose to power too.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Odd because there's no free speech in Saudi Arabia anyway?

For one.

Well, by your logic it's okay in Saudi Arabia.

[Liriena]

For one.

Well, by your logic it's okay in Saudi Arabia.

If by "my logic" you mean, as I said in another response, in purely legal terms? Yes.
If you are asking me about my personal opinion, beyond what the law may say or what tradition and convention may dictate in one society or other, then my answer is no.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Meh, hate speech is an issue I couldn't really care less about either way. Buuuut give us our swatika back, we'll never reclaim it if it's illegal

[UCE Watchdog of the Puppets]

Meh, hate speech is an issue I couldn't really care less about either way. Buuuut give us our swatika back, we'll never reclaim it if it's illegal

Good point...

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Well, by your logic it's okay in Saudi Arabia.

If by "my logic" you mean, as I said in another response, in purely legal terms? Yes.
If you are asking me about my personal opinion, beyond what the law may say or what tradition and convention may dictate in one society or other, then my answer is no.

So it's okay if Saudis can say what they want about Jews because it's their culture, but Germans can't.

In America, would you say hate speech against blacks should legally not okay? What about whites in America?

[Neo Balka]

If by "my logic" you mean, as I said in another response, in purely legal terms? Yes.
If you are asking me about my personal opinion, beyond what the law may say or what tradition and convention may dictate in one society or other, then my answer is no.

So it's okay if Saudis can say what they want about Jews because it's their culture, but Germans can't.

In America, would you say hate speech against blacks should legally not okay? What about whites in America?

Silly pret, you cant be racist against whites!

[Liriena]

If by "my logic" you mean, as I said in another response, in purely legal terms? Yes.
If you are asking me about my personal opinion, beyond what the law may say or what tradition and convention may dictate in one society or other, then my answer is no.

So it's okay if Saudis can say what they want about Jews because it's their culture, but Germans can't.

In my personal opinion, anti-semitic hate speech is unacceptable regardless of its source and regardless of where it is spewed.

In America, would you say hate speech against blacks should legally not okay? What about whites in America?

In my personal opinion, racist hate speech is unacceptable and should not be tolerated or normalized even in the United States.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

So it's okay if Saudis can say what they want about Jews because it's their culture, but Germans can't.

In my personal opinion, anti-semitic hate speech is unacceptable regardless of its source and regardless of where it is spewed.

In America, would you say hate speech against blacks should legally not okay? What about whites in America?

In my personal opinion, racist hate speech is unacceptable and should not be tolerated or normalized even in the United States.

So it's not okay if it's legal in Saudi Arabia despite its culture?

[UCE Watchdog of the Puppets]

In my personal opinion, anti-semitic hate speech is unacceptable regardless of its source and regardless of where it is spewed.


In my personal opinion, racist hate speech is unacceptable and should not be tolerated or normalized even in the United States.

So it's not okay if it's legal in Saudi Arabia despite its culture?

...That's what he said earlier I thought?

If you are asking me about my personal opinion, beyond what the law may say or what tradition and convention may dictate in one society or other, then my answer is no.

edit: fucked up quotes
What would most likely happen is that it's okay because the saudis don't give a shit. But it wouldn't necessarily be right.
Cooperating with a government that rips the organs out of its' political prisoners isn't necessarily right but do 1.3 billion Chinese care?

[Liriena]

In my personal opinion, anti-semitic hate speech is unacceptable regardless of its source and regardless of where it is spewed.


In my personal opinion, racist hate speech is unacceptable and should not be tolerated or normalized even in the United States.

So it's not okay if it's legal in Saudi Arabia despite its culture?

In my personal opinion, no.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

So it's not okay if it's legal in Saudi Arabia despite its culture?

In my personal opinion, no.

Okay, glad we cleared that up.

[Internationalist Bastard]

So it's not okay if it's legal in Saudi Arabia despite its culture?

In my personal opinion, no.

Oh I get it your saying that you find it legally acceptable but not acceptable in any other way

[The Black Forrest]

If by "my logic" you mean, as I said in another response, in purely legal terms? Yes.
If you are asking me about my personal opinion, beyond what the law may say or what tradition and convention may dictate in one society or other, then my answer is no.

So it's okay if Saudis can say what they want about Jews because it's their culture, but Germans can't.

In America, would you say hate speech against blacks should legally not okay? What about whites in America?

They should be illegal too.

[The New Sea Territory]

Europe's a big place.

To be exact, there are 44 independent countries in Europe with a handful of unrecognized states (looking at East Ukraine). 739 million people. You haven't talked about enough countries in your OP to even label this thread "the death of Free Speech in Scandinavia" or in "Northern Europe". You've talked about two countries by name in your OP. Saying "the EU" doesn't really show much of an coherent ideological enemy, either, because the EU has its own internal conflicts (considering that there are, in fact, people and countries within the EU that don't like the EU).

Europe is, after all, a monolith is reactionary narratives. "Europe" or "The West" refers more to a spectre hiding behind your post than any living continent, culture, or collection of states (things Europe actually is).