The Death of Free Speech in Europe

[Liriena]

In my experience, the far-left and Islamists tend to team up not the Islamists and far-right.

It's not so much that radical Islamists and the Western far right team up, but rather that the two have a rather symbiotic relationship. As one grows in strength and visibility, so does the other in response. As some vulnerable young men become radicalized by the far right in the face of Islamic extremism, thereby making their environment more hostile towards vulnerable young men who then become radicalized by radical Islamists.

It's the ciiiiiiiiiiiircle of craaaaaaaaaaaaap!

[Neo Balka]

So the Kurds just sat around on their asses while the Marines killed the shit out of AQI.

Super, no wonder they were constantly under equipped and bombed by the turks.

Not at all. Those specific groups were created by Syrian Kurds. The Peshmerga played an important role in maintaining order in northern Iraq (AQI was based primarily in the Sunni Triangle) and were the ones that captured OBL's courier iirc, leading to Operation Neptune Spear.

Good good.

what did they do about AQI fleeing to the North west?

[Napkiraly]

Not at all. Those specific groups were created by Syrian Kurds. The Peshmerga played an important role in maintaining order in northern Iraq (AQI was based primarily in the Sunni Triangle) and were the ones that captured OBL's courier iirc, leading to Operation Neptune Spear.

Good good.

what did they do about AQI fleeing to the North west?

Shoot them whenever they found them, I suspect.

[Amudarya]

But will certainly let islamists spout their bullshit.

Germany shouldve not been allowed to reform.

Said Islamists are allowed to spout their bullshit as long as it doesn't break the same rules that get Nazis in trouble.

This thread was started by a Nazi complaining that Europe doesn't allow Nazis a big enough platform for their views, and that somehow free speech is dead or drying in Europe.

[Proctopeo]

In my experience, the far-left and Islamists tend to team up not the Islamists and far-right.

It's not so much that radical Islamists and the Western far right team up, but rather that the two have a rather symbiotic relationship. As one grows in strength and visibility, so does the other in response. As some vulnerable young men become radicalized by the far right in the face of Islamic extremism, thereby making their environment more hostile towards vulnerable young men who then become radicalized by radical Islamists.

It's the ciiiiiiiiiiiircle of craaaaaaaaaaaaap!

You can easily fit in a secondary cycle connected to the far-right part that involves a positive feedback loop with the far-left.

It's the fiiiiiigure eiiiight of craaaap!

[Neo Balka]

Good good.

what did they do about AQI fleeing to the North west?

Shoot them whenever they found them, I suspect.

Looks like they missed since ISIS suddenly fucking popped up out of fucking nowhere in Syria.

[The Wolven League]

Not at all. Those specific groups were created by Syrian Kurds. The Peshmerga played an important role in maintaining order in northern Iraq (AQI was based primarily in the Sunni Triangle) and were the ones that captured OBL's courier iirc, leading to Operation Neptune Spear.

Good good.

what did they do about AQI fleeing to the North west?

Sorry to spoil your fun, but this probably isn't the best thread to discuss Kurdish military operations during the Iraq War.

[Napkiraly]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Peshmerga#Iraq_War_.282003-2011.29

[Amudarya]

In my experience, the far-left and Islamists tend to team up not the Islamists and far-right.

It's not so much that radical Islamists and the Western far right team up, but rather that the two have a rather symbiotic relationship. As one grows in strength and visibility, so does the other in response. As some vulnerable young men become radicalized by the far right in the face of Islamic extremism, thereby making their environment more hostile towards vulnerable young men who then become radicalized by radical Islamists.

It's the ciiiiiiiiiiiircle of craaaaaaaaaaaaap!

Yep. And they recruit from the same pool of frustrated young men without much going for them. The same kind of person who is attracted to Islamism in one society is probably posting Pepe images on twitter in another.

[Neo Balka]

Said Islamists are allowed to spout their bullshit as long as it doesn't break the same rules that get Nazis in trouble.

This thread was started by a Nazi complaining that Europe doesn't allow Nazis a big enough platform for their views, and that somehow free speech is dead or drying in Europe.

Pan is many things but a nazi?

try harder.

[Napkiraly]

Shoot them whenever they found them, I suspect.

Looks like they missed since ISIS suddenly fucking popped up out of fucking nowhere in Syria.

Then so did the US military and intelligence agencies.

[Proctopeo]

This thread was started by a Nazi complaining that Europe doesn't allow Nazis a big enough platform for their views, and that somehow free speech is dead or drying in Europe.

Pan is many things but a nazi?

try harder.

Authoritarian nationalism looks the same as Nazism if you're far enough away from both. There's not even a component of race!

[Community Values]

Did Europe ever have free speech to the extent of the American version? Other than maybe Britain and France (which is dubious), I feel like most of European elites banned things they didn't like.

[The Wolven League]

Said Islamists are allowed to spout their bullshit as long as it doesn't break the same rules that get Nazis in trouble.

This thread was started by a Nazi complaining that Europe doesn't allow Nazis a big enough platform for their views, and that somehow free speech is dead or drying in Europe.

There you go again. Throwing "Nazi" around like a fucking hot potato.

You need to read a Wikipedia article on national socialism or something.

[Napkiraly]

It's not so much that radical Islamists and the Western far right team up, but rather that the two have a rather symbiotic relationship. As one grows in strength and visibility, so does the other in response. As some vulnerable young men become radicalized by the far right in the face of Islamic extremism, thereby making their environment more hostile towards vulnerable young men who then become radicalized by radical Islamists.

It's the ciiiiiiiiiiiircle of craaaaaaaaaaaaap!

Yep. And they recruit from the same pool of frustrated young men without much going for them. The same kind of person who is attracted to Islamism in one society is probably posting Pepe images on twitter in another.

Or preaching about the "inevitable" revolution of the proletariat.

[The Wolven League]

It's not so much that radical Islamists and the Western far right team up, but rather that the two have a rather symbiotic relationship. As one grows in strength and visibility, so does the other in response. As some vulnerable young men become radicalized by the far right in the face of Islamic extremism, thereby making their environment more hostile towards vulnerable young men who then become radicalized by radical Islamists.

It's the ciiiiiiiiiiiircle of craaaaaaaaaaaaap!

Yep. And they recruit from the same pool of frustrated young men without much going for them. The same kind of person who is attracted to Islamism in one society is probably posting Pepe images on twitter in another.

You mean the frustrated young men who want to be edgy and different and so decide to call for the heads of the bourgeoisie?

[Infected Mushroom]

Europe has every right to regulate speech in the name of the greater good. Hate speech promotes societal dissonance.

[Neo Balka]

Pan is many things but a nazi?

try harder.

Authoritarian nationalism looks the same as Nazism if you're far enough away from both. There's not even a component of race!

Pan im sure is not a racist.

hell, ive been called a nazi by virtue of speaking with these fine fellows on the discord chat.

[Liriena]

Since the bulk of mass media is owned by a handful of large private conglomerates who most definitely love the concept of money and capitalism in general and clearly weren't too keen on Bernie Sanders, let alone Jill Stein or Gloria La Riva...

Exactly. And why do you think that was?

Because the media and establishment despise both the populist anti-establishment left and right.

Besides, Stein and La Riva both endorsed Clinton .

When? Where?

Sargon of Akkad is a "liberal" in the same way that Steve Bannon is a "leninist". Forgive me if I don't take that shallow Trump shill's claim of liberalism seriously.

Then surely you also hate the Amazing Athiest, an athiest, left-anarchist pothead who consistently rails against political correctness and endorsed Trump?

I dislike him because he is a terrible human being and I don't particularly care for that particular brand of atheism that is almost pathologically obsessed with proving religion is the worst thing ever. I could not care less about his railing against "political correctness" (seriously, everybody and their cat does it these days), and I think his endorsement of Trump was rather dumb, given his previous support for Bernie Sanders, but not cause for my hatred.

[Liriena]

Since the bulk of mass media is owned by a handful of large private conglomerates who most definitely love the concept of money and capitalism in general and clearly weren't too keen on Bernie Sanders, let alone Jill Stein or Gloria La Riva...

Yet they all were quick to hop on Clinton's bandwagon.

Clinton isn't left-wing, though.

[Neo Balka]

Yet they all were quick to hop on Clinton's bandwagon.

Clinton isn't left-wing, though.

Then what is she?

Certain NSGers begged the EC to crown her instead of trump.

[The Wolven League]

Yet they all were quick to hop on Clinton's bandwagon.

Clinton isn't left-wing, though.

She is liberal, though. "Left" vs "right" is a basic and outdated approach to politics that does not convey the whole truth. I only used the terms so I don't have to write fifty specific ideologies every damn time.

[Proctopeo]

Exactly. And why do you think that was?

Because the media and establishment despise both the populist anti-establishment left and right.

Besides, Stein and La Riva both endorsed Clinton .

When? Where?

Then surely you also hate the Amazing Athiest, an athiest, left-anarchist pothead who consistently rails against political correctness and endorsed Trump?

I dislike him because he is a terrible human being and I don't particularly care for that particular brand of atheism that is almost pathologically obsessed with proving religion is the worst thing ever. I could not care less about his railing against "political correctness" (seriously, everybody and their cat does it these days), and I think his endorsement of Trump was rather dumb, given his previous support for Bernie Sanders, but not cause for my hatred.

Eh, I like his brand of atheism more than I like Atheism+. A+ is garbage, though, so this probably doesn't say much.

[Liriena]

Yes, he proposed that law. It's not a law yet. Also... exactly what is wrong with hitting a website with fines if it fails to review, report and remove blatantly illegal content at an appropriate pace?

It shouldn't be illegal. Opinions should not be illegal.

Being an opinion does not shield a statement from facing consequences based on its intent, content and consequences. I could call for someone's murder and claim I was just expressing an opinion, but that would not change the fact that my opinion is an incitement to violence. Opinions, including unpopular ones, should be respected and protected... but that right to have one's opinions respected and protected is not the same as a right to total anomie. Free speech does not mean anything and everything is allowed if it's "just an opinion".

[Liriena]

And they aren't. Can't you at least try to base your opposition on the facts?

What is illegal is a set of actions (not opinions!) that are fairly well circumscribed in the law, the application of which is handled by independent courts. Sometimes the government wins when it tries to bring a case under these rules, and sometimes it does not.

You can make an argument that this is all unnecessary, or that there shouldn't be a law like this. But by whining about some sort of thought control, you're not doing yourself any favours. The fact of the matter is that the history of Europe has demonstrated that liberal civil societies can break down quickly and violently. Laws like this are meant to prevent that. You can either think that they don't serve that purpose, or that even if they did, they still should not exist (either going by some sort of objective rights/moral standard or because you want liberal civil society to break down).

But so far you haven't actually made any of these arguments in any detail.

"Hate speech" just means any opinion that isn't left-wing.

You cannot deny the Holocaust. You will be thrown in jail. That opinion is illegal.

I'm sorry... are you suggesting that all right-wing opinions are equivalent to denying the Holocaust? I'm pretty sure that nobody on this thread has expressed that view, so I can only assume that it's your view. ;3