NATION

PASSWORD

If the U.S. had a parliamentary system

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Hyggemata
Diplomat
 
Posts: 873
Founded: Oct 27, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Hyggemata » Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:46 am

The United Colonies of Earth wrote:
Hyggemata wrote:Abolition of states should be first on the agenda.

Federalism is essential. In America anyways. Without the states we would have the political seesawing of Ohio on a national scale.

Canada is a federal country, and yet it does not suffer from Alberta attempting to subvert the legalization of homosexuality.
Conservative logic: every slope is a slippery slope.
Liberal logic: climb every mountain; ford every stream.
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Fuck the common good

User avatar
The United Colonies of Earth
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9727
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby The United Colonies of Earth » Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:47 am

Hyggemata wrote:
The United Colonies of Earth wrote:Federalism is essential. In America anyways. Without the states we would have the political seesawing of Ohio on a national scale.

Canada is a federal country, and yet it does not suffer from Alberta attempting to subvert the legalization of homosexuality.

I'm aware. The United States is more politically heterogeneous than the rest of the OECD as far as I know.
The United Colonies of Earth exists:
to encourage settlement of all habitable worlds in the Galaxy and perhaps the Universe by the human race;
to ensure that human rights are respected, with force if necessary, and that all nations recognize the inevitable and unalienable rights of all human beings regardless of their individual and harmless differences, or Idiosyncrasies;
to represent the interests of all humankind to other sapient species;
to protect all humanity and its’ colonies from unneeded violence or danger;
to promote technological advancement and scientific achievement for the happiness, knowledge and welfare of all humans;
and to facilitate cooperation in the spheres of law, transportation, communication, and measurement between nation-states.

User avatar
Hyggemata
Diplomat
 
Posts: 873
Founded: Oct 27, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Hyggemata » Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:52 am

To me, proponents of states' rights are forgetting that the federation is, in effect, an assembly of states.
Conservative logic: every slope is a slippery slope.
Liberal logic: climb every mountain; ford every stream.
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Fuck the common good

User avatar
Costa Fierro
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19884
Founded: Dec 09, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Costa Fierro » Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:45 am

Kravanica wrote:Ehhh, parliamentary systems suck.


As someone who lives in a country with a parliamentary system, why does it suck more than a bicameral system that results in unnecessary deadlock?
"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." - George Carlin

User avatar
Novus America
Post Czar
 
Posts: 38385
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Novus America » Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:59 am

Hyggemata wrote:Abolition of states should be first on the agenda.


What? Why? And the US is too big and diverse to run as a single entity.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. I support what is good for the country, which means I cannot support either party.

User avatar
Hyggemata
Diplomat
 
Posts: 873
Founded: Oct 27, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Hyggemata » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:01 am

Novus America wrote:
Hyggemata wrote:Abolition of states should be first on the agenda.


What? Why? And the US is too big and diverse to run as a single entity.

I'm not saying that there should be no local government. A re-assignment of the remit of constituent vs. federal governments is urgently required.
Conservative logic: every slope is a slippery slope.
Liberal logic: climb every mountain; ford every stream.
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Fuck the common good

User avatar
Novus America
Post Czar
 
Posts: 38385
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Novus America » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:04 am

Hyggemata wrote:
Novus America wrote:
What? Why? And the US is too big and diverse to run as a single entity.

I'm not saying that there should be no local government. A re-assignment of the remit of constituent vs. federal governments is urgently required.


Well changing the distribution of powers somewhat is different than abolishing the states.
But if anything we need more, not less local government.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. I support what is good for the country, which means I cannot support either party.

User avatar
Hyggemata
Diplomat
 
Posts: 873
Founded: Oct 27, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Hyggemata » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:09 am

Novus America wrote:
Hyggemata wrote:I'm not saying that there should be no local government. A re-assignment of the remit of constituent vs. federal governments is urgently required.


Well changing the distribution of powers somewhat is different than abolishing the states.
But if anything we need more, not less local government.

I'm all in favour for keeping and expanding local government, but in meaningful ways. What I don't support is states enacting policies opposing the federal government as a means of political protest.
Conservative logic: every slope is a slippery slope.
Liberal logic: climb every mountain; ford every stream.
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Fuck the common good

User avatar
Novus America
Post Czar
 
Posts: 38385
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Novus America » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:16 am

Hyggemata wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Well changing the distribution of powers somewhat is different than abolishing the states.
But if anything we need more, not less local government.

I'm all in favour for keeping and expanding local government, but in meaningful ways. What I don't support is states enacting policies opposing the federal government as a means of political protest.


Well that is not a major problem as the courts shut that down. And that does not neccesitate abolishing the states. And is invetable to occur with any local government. If they do you stop them. Which we already do.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. I support what is good for the country, which means I cannot support either party.

User avatar
Hyggemata
Diplomat
 
Posts: 873
Founded: Oct 27, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Hyggemata » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:40 am

Novus America wrote:
Hyggemata wrote:I'm all in favour for keeping and expanding local government, but in meaningful ways. What I don't support is states enacting policies opposing the federal government as a means of political protest.


Well that is not a major problem as the courts shut that down. And that does not neccesitate abolishing the states. And is invetable to occur with any local government. If they do you stop them. Which we already do.

And what happens when the states refuse to accept the ruling of the highest court in the land? :p
Conservative logic: every slope is a slippery slope.
Liberal logic: climb every mountain; ford every stream.
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Fuck the common good

User avatar
Novus America
Post Czar
 
Posts: 38385
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Novus America » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:57 am

Hyggemata wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Well that is not a major problem as the courts shut that down. And that does not neccesitate abolishing the states. And is invetable to occur with any local government. If they do you stop them. Which we already do.

And what happens when the states refuse to accept the ruling of the highest court in the land? :p


Well that is not usually a problem. But if need be federal government officials can be sent in to enforce it.

It is the same thing if anyone breaks the law really. Not everyone is going to want to obey the law so you have enforcement mechanisms.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. I support what is good for the country, which means I cannot support either party.

User avatar
Hyggemata
Diplomat
 
Posts: 873
Founded: Oct 27, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Hyggemata » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:02 am

Well that is fair enough, in my opinion. Canada is too a federal country, yet it does not suffer from the disunity in the USA. Perhaps some lessons could be had.
Conservative logic: every slope is a slippery slope.
Liberal logic: climb every mountain; ford every stream.
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Fuck the common good

User avatar
Neu Leonstein
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5771
Founded: Oct 23, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Neu Leonstein » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:07 am

The United Colonies of Earth wrote:I'm aware. The United States is more politically heterogeneous than the rest of the OECD as far as I know.

*Looks at Belgium*

Really?
“Every age and generation must be as free to act for itself in all cases as the age and generations which preceded it. The vanity and presumption of governing beyond the grave is the most ridiculous and insolent of all tyrannies. Man has no property in man; neither has any generation a property in the generations which are to follow.”
~ Thomas Paine

Economic Left/Right: 2.25 | Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.33
Time zone: GMT+10 (Melbourne), working full time.

User avatar
Novus America
Post Czar
 
Posts: 38385
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Novus America » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:08 am

Hyggemata wrote:Well that is fair enough, in my opinion. Canada is too a federal country, yet it does not suffer from the disunity in the USA. Perhaps some lessons could be had.


Quebec? Also Canada only has one tenth the population of the US. California alone has a bigger population than the entirety of Canada.
Last edited by Novus America on Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. I support what is good for the country, which means I cannot support either party.

User avatar
Hyggemata
Diplomat
 
Posts: 873
Founded: Oct 27, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Hyggemata » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:33 am

Novus America wrote:
Hyggemata wrote:Well that is fair enough, in my opinion. Canada is too a federal country, yet it does not suffer from the disunity in the USA. Perhaps some lessons could be had.


Quebec? Also Canada only has one tenth the population of the US. California alone has a bigger population than the entirety of Canada.

Quebec has settled down because its people have come to their senses. People who support independent Texas haven't. Anyway, I think the Canadian system is the direction in which the USA wants to migrate.
Conservative logic: every slope is a slippery slope.
Liberal logic: climb every mountain; ford every stream.
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Fuck the common good

User avatar
Alizeria
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1434
Founded: Jan 03, 2009
Tyranny by Majority

Postby Alizeria » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:38 am

It wouldn't work, at all. Parliamentary systems favour unitary states, and while there are federal parliamentary systems out there (e.g. Germany) most of these systems, in practice, are highly centralised.

Personally I think that the US needs more centralisation like it needs a hole in the head.
IIwiki | Hansard | Foreign Affairs | Q&A
Late Roman Empire wrote:Draconians often joke that they double-inspect imports of Alizerian lamb for signs of coupling.

New Edom wrote:Did you hear about that Alizerian who said he’d eat some sheep’s balls on a bet? He won the bet, but damn did that sheep kick him.

Hittanryan wrote:What do you call a guy with his hand up a sheep's ass? An Alizerian mechanic.

Schottia wrote:While Belisaria is burning Schottia is watching football and Alizeria is teaching sheep to drive.

Shalum wrote:Alizeria, the one place where it's acceptable to be a lady by day, and a freak in the hay.

User avatar
Novus America
Post Czar
 
Posts: 38385
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Novus America » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:38 am

Hyggemata wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Quebec? Also Canada only has one tenth the population of the US. California alone has a bigger population than the entirety of Canada.

Quebec has settled down because its people have come to their senses. People who support independent Texas haven't. Anyway, I think the Canadian system is the direction in which the USA wants to migrate.


The people who want a independent Texas are also a minority an not a real problem. And there are still a fair number of people in Quebec who want independence.
And you need to be more specific. What specific differences and specific policies do you want changed?
Last edited by Novus America on Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. I support what is good for the country, which means I cannot support either party.

User avatar
Hyggemata
Diplomat
 
Posts: 873
Founded: Oct 27, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Hyggemata » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:41 am

Novus America wrote: younwabt

Normally guessing typos is my strength, but this is beyond me. :p
Conservative logic: every slope is a slippery slope.
Liberal logic: climb every mountain; ford every stream.
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Fuck the common good

User avatar
Aclion
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6249
Founded: Apr 12, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Aclion » Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:04 am

I feel like it should be pointed out that the whole point of the US political structure is to make it very difficult to do things.
A popular Government, without popular information, or the means of acquiring it, is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy; or, perhaps both. - James Madison.

User avatar
Hyggemata
Diplomat
 
Posts: 873
Founded: Oct 27, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Hyggemata » Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:05 am

Aclion wrote:I feel like it should be pointed out that the whole point of the US political structure is to make it very difficult to do things.

That's not a good thing, when you realize that there are endless tasks the government should be doing.
Conservative logic: every slope is a slippery slope.
Liberal logic: climb every mountain; ford every stream.
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Fuck the common good

User avatar
Aclion
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6249
Founded: Apr 12, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Aclion » Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:08 am

Hyggemata wrote:
Aclion wrote:I feel like it should be pointed out that the whole point of the US political structure is to make it very difficult to do things.

That's not a good thing, when you realize that there are endless tasks the government should be doing.

Ah but there is an even larger list of endless tasks that the government should not be doing.
I should also point out that the US states have a lot more leeway in governance then is typical in parliamentary countries, so a lot the tasks normally taken by national government is done more locally.
Last edited by Aclion on Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
A popular Government, without popular information, or the means of acquiring it, is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy; or, perhaps both. - James Madison.

User avatar
Hyggemata
Diplomat
 
Posts: 873
Founded: Oct 27, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Hyggemata » Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:18 am

Aclion wrote:
Hyggemata wrote:That's not a good thing, when you realize that there are endless tasks the government should be doing.

Ah but there is an even larger list of endless tasks that the government should not be doing.
I should also point out that the US states have a lot more leeway in governance then is typical in parliamentary countries, so a lot the tasks normally taken by national government is done more locally.

The people will decide what the government should be doing or should not be doing. As long as elections keep happening, the government remains accountable to the people.
Conservative logic: every slope is a slippery slope.
Liberal logic: climb every mountain; ford every stream.
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Fuck the common good

User avatar
Kravanica
Senator
 
Posts: 4261
Founded: Aug 07, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Kravanica » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:21 am

Alvalero wrote:
Kravanica wrote:What the fuck is the point of having a president if he's ceremonial?

President of Ireland's duties may be a good place to start - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_Ireland

Better than most other ceremonial presidents, at least. And that ain't saying much.
The Kravanican Realm (PMT)
I support Thermonuclear Warfare. Do you?
My nation does not represent my RL views

American and Jewish
Conservatarian with various "right-wing" leanings

User avatar
Kravanica
Senator
 
Posts: 4261
Founded: Aug 07, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Kravanica » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:22 am

Hyggemata wrote:Abolition of states should be first on the agenda.

Do you want to destroy America or something?
The Kravanican Realm (PMT)
I support Thermonuclear Warfare. Do you?
My nation does not represent my RL views

American and Jewish
Conservatarian with various "right-wing" leanings

User avatar
Kravanica
Senator
 
Posts: 4261
Founded: Aug 07, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Kravanica » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:23 am

Hyggemata wrote:Well that is fair enough, in my opinion. Canada is too a federal country, yet it does not suffer from the disunity in the USA. Perhaps some lessons could be had.

What would you call Quebec?
The Kravanican Realm (PMT)
I support Thermonuclear Warfare. Do you?
My nation does not represent my RL views

American and Jewish
Conservatarian with various "right-wing" leanings

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dimetrodon Empire, Eahland, Grinning Dragon, Hispida, Port Caverton, Senkaku, Stellar Colonies, The Pirateariat, Trivalve, Washington-Columbia

Advertisement

Remove ads