Trump MAGAThread V: March Comes In Like A Lion

[Betoni]

If the intelligence rules were a result of an EO doesn't the current president have the authority to revoke that EO? At least Obama did it previosly, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13233 If the current rules are not an EO by Obama, than it really is not Obamas doing, not solely Obamas doing, at least. Yeah, I'm well aware how Obama seemed to have a huge change of heart on the issues of intelligence gathering and personal privacy. I'm not entirely sure that the Democrats would have wanted to lessen the executive powers of the president, but yes he should have tried at least. But, we did start this conversation of on the argument that Obama actually expanded the executive power, and I still don't see how that is true. He could have done more to contract said powers, but that is really not the same as he expanded them. In this regard Obama is not any different from any other previous president.

Did you read any of the articles I linked? They do detail how he expanded those powers. He didn't do a fucking thing to contract them. He only made it worse and then in his infinite wisdom kept expanding them post Trump win. He added fuel on top of an already disaster and posters like Gauthier rushed to his defense due to a blue team jeresy. What a fucking joke. The Democrats can't even fucking play evil correctly. The Republicans are waging total political war and the solution is to help them by making even easier to get data without a warrant? In what world does that not constitute an expansion and a bad idea both?

It is not an expansion of executive power of the presidency. Obama did not give the office any more powers to execute laws or to promulgate laws. In fact, I do not think he had the power to give himself more power. Those powers existed before he took office, he used them, in ways that I would not agree on, but that is not the argument.

[The East Marches II]

Did you read any of the articles I linked? They do detail how he expanded those powers. He didn't do a fucking thing to contract them. He only made it worse and then in his infinite wisdom kept expanding them post Trump win. He added fuel on top of an already disaster and posters like Gauthier rushed to his defense due to a blue team jeresy. What a fucking joke. The Democrats can't even fucking play evil correctly. The Republicans are waging total political war and the solution is to help them by making even easier to get data without a warrant? In what world does that not constitute an expansion and a bad idea both?

It is not an expansion of executive power of the presidency. Obama did not give the office any more powers to execute laws or to promulgate laws. In fact, I do not think he had the power to give himself more power. Those powers existed before he took office, he used them, in ways that I would not agree on, but that is not the argument.

Yes it is, it is an expansion of the surveillance state. What else would you call it? Or if you want raw executive power, the Beast article mentions this tidbit on kill lists and target selection. Plenty of other wonderful Obama era creations we can go over which are now in the hands of Trump.

[Betoni]

It is not an expansion of executive power of the presidency. Obama did not give the office any more powers to execute laws or to promulgate laws. In fact, I do not think he had the power to give himself more power. Those powers existed before he took office, he used them, in ways that I would not agree on, but that is not the argument.

Yes it is, it is an expansion of the surveillance state. What else would you call it? Or if you want raw executive power, the Beast article mentions this tidbit on kill lists and target selection. Plenty of other wonderful Obama era creations we can go over which are now in the hands of Trump.

I agree that the presidency has way too much power in the US, not that my opinion is relevant, but it had that way before Obama. Obama used those powers more than many previous presidents, for better or more likely for worse. It's not like he went "right, I'll be the god-emperor now, so suck it" and magically give himself those powers right after assuming the presidency.

[The East Marches II]

Yes it is, it is an expansion of the surveillance state. What else would you call it? Or if you want raw executive power, the Beast article mentions this tidbit on kill lists and target selection. Plenty of other wonderful Obama era creations we can go over which are now in the hands of Trump.

I agree that the presidency has way too much power in the US, not that my opinion is relevant, but it had that way before Obama. Obama used those powers more than many previous presidents, for better or more likely for worse. It's not like he went "right, I'll be the god-emperor now, so suck it" and magically give himself those powers right after assuming the presidency.

It did have too much before Obama but as I've shown he did expand it even further. He created new programs, initiatives etc. and pushed it forward despite having campaigned to rein it in. Even post Trump win, he was still at it signing a fake news bill that was outright suicidal. Now we've got a President who can label stuff Russian propaganda and have it investigated. Ifreann for one did not believe it could come to harm us but yet Trump has managed to deny reality itself and brazenly lie.

[Betoni]

I agree that the presidency has way too much power in the US, not that my opinion is relevant, but it had that way before Obama. Obama used those powers more than many previous presidents, for better or more likely for worse. It's not like he went "right, I'll be the god-emperor now, so suck it" and magically give himself those powers right after assuming the presidency.

It did have too much before Obama but as I've shown he did expand it even further. He created new programs, initiatives etc. and pushed it forward despite having campaigned to rein it in. Even post Trump win, he was still at it signing a fake news bill that was outright suicidal. Now we've got a President who can label stuff Russian propaganda and have it investigated. Ifreann for one did not believe it could come to harm us but yet Trump has managed to deny reality itself and brazenly lie.

If the president can give his office more power unilaterally, I'm afraid the system was broken from the beginning. If the president can give his office more power unilaterally, the office really did not have any restrictions on its powers in the first place.

[The East Marches II]

It did have too much before Obama but as I've shown he did expand it even further. He created new programs, initiatives etc. and pushed it forward despite having campaigned to rein it in. Even post Trump win, he was still at it signing a fake news bill that was outright suicidal. Now we've got a President who can label stuff Russian propaganda and have it investigated. Ifreann for one did not believe it could come to harm us but yet Trump has managed to deny reality itself and brazenly lie.

If the president can give his office more power unilaterally, I'm afraid the system was broken from the beginning. If the president can give his office more power unilaterally, the office really did not have any restrictions on its powers in the first place.

It started to be broken with TR tbf but regardless that does not mean we need resign ourselves to defeat. Even pragmatically a good rear guard action can be put up to stop such power from falling into the wrong hands. The legislature can curb it, it is their prerogative. What I can't understand for the life of me is why the Dems aren't fighting. They are just laying there like dead fish. The Republicans stripped the executive of power in NC overnight when they lost, why aren't we thinking like that? It's a failure of mindset.

[Ashmoria]

Depends what these regulations are. If you have to have some damn environmental regulations, I don't really care if you have to go through those. But some may be legitimately dumb. You shouldn't get the right to make everything shitty and unsafe with no regulations, though. We have regulations for a reason, so we don't have mass factory deaths and shit like that.

I'll give you an example of harmful regulation: forcing Americans to buy insurance when they can't afford it and mandating that large businesses provide coverage is absolutely insane. It drains pocketbooks and has had a negative impact on job growth. I want to avoid these rules and let the market run its course. I'm fine with government providing subsidies to folks who need help buying insurance (like in Switzerland) but nothing much beyond that.

oddly enough there is a rule in Obamacare that if you cant get affordable insurance you don't have to pay the fine.

[Ashmoria]

Could be a political dispute.

Anyway, if you think it was evil for Trump to use Obama's tools, then it was evil for Obama to leave them out on display where the next President could find them.

That tired old disingenuous "Obama should have sat on his ass and done nothing about trying to get his campaign promises fulfilled instead of using executive orders to do so when the Republicans blocked him because Trump can use them too!" sophistry is just a copout to blame Obama for Trump's shit.

but trump would never have known that executive orders existed if Obama hadn't used them!

[WhatsamattaU]

That tired old disingenuous "Obama should have sat on his ass and done nothing about trying to get his campaign promises fulfilled instead of using executive orders to do so when the Republicans blocked him because Trump can use them too!" sophistry is just a copout to blame Obama for Trump's shit.

but trump would never have known that executive orders existed if Obama hadn't used them!

I'm sure someone would have told him about Executive Orders. But Obama's got so much attention in the news....
And of course, the thing about Executive Orders is that the next President doesn't need Congress to remove previous Executive Orders that the previous President put into place.

[Thermodolia]

Can you say creepy

[Galloism]

Obama weighs in on wiretap claim.

WASHINGTON —Donald J. Trump’s claim that Barack Obama wiretapped him received a strong denial on Monday from the former President, who said to reporters, “Like I’d want to hear more from that fool?”

Obama said that, when he first saw Trump’s allegations on Twitter, “My first thought was, Only a narcissist on the scale of Donald Trump would think people want to hear more from him than they currently do. If anything, I think we’d all like to hear way, way less.”

He said that his wife, Michelle, agreed that the idea of his wanting to hear more from Donald Trump “was one of the funniest things she’s ever heard.”

“When I read her those Trump tweets on Saturday morning, she totally cracked up,” the former President said. “Whenever we’re at home and that guy comes on TV, I’m always, like, ‘Michelle, turn that damn thing off.’ ”

Obama visibly shuddered at the notion of intelligence agencies providing him with hours of recordings of Donald Trump talking. “Don’t even,” he said.

[Thermodolia]

Obama weighs in on wiretap claim.

WASHINGTON —Donald J. Trump’s claim that Barack Obama wiretapped him received a strong denial on Monday from the former President, who said to reporters, “Like I’d want to hear more from that fool?”

Obama said that, when he first saw Trump’s allegations on Twitter, “My first thought was, Only a narcissist on the scale of Donald Trump would think people want to hear more from him than they currently do. If anything, I think we’d all like to hear way, way less.”

He said that his wife, Michelle, agreed that the idea of his wanting to hear more from Donald Trump “was one of the funniest things she’s ever heard.”

“When I read her those Trump tweets on Saturday morning, she totally cracked up,” the former President said. “Whenever we’re at home and that guy comes on TV, I’m always, like, ‘Michelle, turn that damn thing off.’ ”

Obama visibly shuddered at the notion of intelligence agencies providing him with hours of recordings of Donald Trump talking. “Don’t even,” he said.

I guess Trump thinks a little too highly of himself

[WhatsamattaU]

Can you say creepy

This is probably some RINO putting forth this idea.
It was already in the Obama Care, but this closes some loop holes.

It's an exercise in choice architecture.
If you do "A" we will give you the "B' that you like.
But if you do take "B" then you have to give us "C".

You don't want "C"? Don't take "A".

[Ashmoria]

but trump would never have known that executive orders existed if Obama hadn't used them!

I'm sure someone would have told him about Executive Orders. But Obama's got so much attention in the news....
And of course, the thing about Executive Orders is that the next President doesn't need Congress to remove previous Executive Orders that the previous President put into place.

while trump is having a great time with this EO thing, he doesn't really need them. he can get whatever he wants out of congress.

[Thermodolia]

Can you say creepy

This is probably some RINO putting forth this idea.
It was already in the Obama Care, but this closes some loop holes.

It's an exercise in choice architecture.
If you do "A" we will give you the "B' that you like.
But if you do take "B" then you have to give us "C".

You don't want "C"? Don't take "A".

Actually its not in the ACA, there are already laws in place against this.

[Frenequesta]

I'm sure someone would have told him about Executive Orders. But Obama's got so much attention in the news....
And of course, the thing about Executive Orders is that the next President doesn't need Congress to remove previous Executive Orders that the previous President put into place.

while trump is having a great time with this EO thing, he doesn't really need them. he can get whatever he wants out of congress.

It's all for show. He's making it look like, to his supporters, that he's getting the change done and Making America Great Again.

[United City States of Oceania]

That tired old disingenuous "Obama should have sat on his ass and done nothing about trying to get his campaign promises fulfilled instead of using executive orders to do so when the Republicans blocked him because Trump can use them too!" sophistry is just a copout to blame Obama for Trump's shit.

but trump would never have known that executive orders existed if Obama hadn't used them!

His aides would have told him about them.

[WhatsamattaU]

I'm sure someone would have told him about Executive Orders. But Obama's got so much attention in the news....
And of course, the thing about Executive Orders is that the next President doesn't need Congress to remove previous Executive Orders that the previous President put into place.

while trump is having a great time with this EO thing, he doesn't really need them. he can get whatever he wants out of congress.

True, but sometimes a politician, even Trump, wants to get things done without a lot of belly aching that comes from trying to build an impossible consensus.

[Gauthier]

Can you say creepy

Someone needs to tell Congress that mutants are not real.

[Ifreann]

while trump is having a great time with this EO thing, he doesn't really need them. he can get whatever he wants out of congress.

It's all for show. He's making it look like, to his supporters, that he's getting the change done and Making America Great Again.

And let us not forget, this is a temporary travel ban, so that the administration can figure out what the hell is going on. What does that even mean? What are they gonna do when the ban expires? One suspects that not even Trump knows.

[Galloism]

It's all for show. He's making it look like, to his supporters, that he's getting the change done and Making America Great Again.

And let us not forget, this is a temporary travel ban, so that the administration can figure out what the hell is going on. What does that even mean? What are they gonna do when the ban expires? One suspects that not even Trump knows.

You presume the administration can ever, to use that turn of phrase, 'figure out what the hell is going on'.

[Gauthier]

And let us not forget, this is a temporary travel ban, so that the administration can figure out what the hell is going on. What does that even mean? What are they gonna do when the ban expires? One suspects that not even Trump knows.

You presume the administration can ever, to use that turn of phrase, 'figure out what the hell is going on'.

The first time they tried to figure out what the hell is going on, it involved the White House lighting.

[Camicon]

Can you say creepy

Someone needs to tell Congress that mutants are not real.

There was a bill like that up here which was recently shot down in the HoC.

[Frenequesta]

And let us not forget, this is a temporary travel ban, so that the administration can figure out what the hell is going on. What does that even mean? What are they gonna do when the ban expires? One suspects that not even Trump knows.

You presume the administration can ever, to use that turn of phrase, 'figure out what the hell is going on'.

I do suspect they're just going to extend the ban once it expires. They know what they're doing.

[Ifreann]

You presume the administration can ever, to use that turn of phrase, 'figure out what the hell is going on'.

I do suspect they're just going to extend the ban once it expires. They know what they're doing.

I wouldn't be surprised.