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German Federal Election 2017

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which German party do you support?

Christian Democratic Union
93
14%
Social Democratic Party
152
23%
The Left
95
14%
Alliance '90/ The Greens
30
5%
Free Democratic Party
55
8%
Alternative for Germany
214
33%
Other
17
3%
 
Total votes : 656

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Remnants of Exilvania
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Postby Remnants of Exilvania » Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:36 am

Ondonore wrote:
Remnants of Exilvania wrote:By this logic, the NSdAP probably was a centre party with slightly right portions mixed in. :blink:


The NSDAP is also left. Nazism isn't right-wing or "conservative" at all. Says even its name: National Socialism. The only major right-of-centre party in Germany is the CSU, but it participates only in Bavaria and in the end of conflicts with Merkel often agrees with her. There has to be a new, federal, steadfest right-wing political party which gets into the parliament.

Ondonore wrote:Not at all. Schäuble is left-wing, while most of the CDU is far-left.

:rofl:


Indeed, the CDU is not "Christian Democratic" at all. It's far-left in many issues, do you know the party?[/quote]
Let me rephrase that a little.
If the CDU is mostly far right, then the NPD is nothing but a bunch of happy centrist while parties like SPD, The Left and The Greens are already off the political spectrum because they are too left for it.
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Ondonore
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Postby Ondonore » Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:43 am

Omnonia wrote:
Ondonore wrote:Indeed, the CDU is not "Christian Democratic" at all. It's far-left in many issues, do you know the party?

As a German, living in Germany for all 43 years of my life, yes, I do. It's a center-right party; their Bavarian sister party CSU is moderate-right.

Calling them left, let alone far-left, is one of the most ridiculous things I've heard of late. And Wolfgang Schäuble would undoubtedly be aghast if you called him a leftist. He's one of the right-wingers in the CDU, and therefore moderate-right.


Die einzige Position, die die CDU rechts der Mitte vertrat, war das Nein zur Homo-"Ehe" und -Adoption. Doch das spielt seit gestern ohnehin keine Rolle mehr. Wo genau verorten Sie die CDU denn sonst noch rechts?

@exilvania

You don't understand or want to understand that racism, fascism and national chauvinism belong to left-wing policies.
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Remnants of Exilvania
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Postby Remnants of Exilvania » Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:46 am

Ondonore wrote:
Omnonia wrote:As a German, living in Germany for all 43 years of my life, yes, I do. It's a center-right party; their Bavarian sister party CSU is moderate-right.

Calling them left, let alone far-left, is one of the most ridiculous things I've heard of late. And Wolfgang Schäuble would undoubtedly be aghast if you called him a leftist. He's one of the right-wingers in the CDU, and therefore moderate-right.


Die einzige Position, die die CDU rechts der Mitte vertrat, war das Nein zur Homo-"Ehe" und -Adoption. Doch das spielt seit gestern ohnehin keine Rolle mehr. Wo genau verorten Sie die CDU denn sonst noch rechts?

@exilvania

You don't understand or want to understand that racism, fascism and national chauvinism belong to left-wing policies.

Aha.
Na dann bin ich ja gottfroh, dass ich CDU wähle. Hätte jetzt nichts dagegen den Überwachungsstaat DDR zurückzubringen.
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Omnonia
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Postby Omnonia » Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:53 am

Ondonore wrote:Die einzige Position, die die CDU rechts der Mitte vertrat, war das Nein zur Homo-"Ehe" und -Adoption. Doch das spielt seit gestern ohnehin keine Rolle mehr. Wo genau verorten Sie die CDU denn sonst noch rechts?


Quelle
Die CDU definiert sich in ihrem Grundsatzprogramm als „Volkspartei der Mitte“ und bekennt sich zu ihren christlich-sozialen, liberalen und wertkonservativen Wurzeln. Orientierungsmaßstab ist das christliche Menschenbild und davon ausgehend die drei Grundwerte „Freiheit, Solidarität und Gerechtigkeit“. Gesellschaftliches Ziel der CDU ist die Chancengesellschaft, in der die Bürger frei und sicher leben.

Wo um Himmels Willen (heh) ist das bitte schön links der Mitte???

Ich könnte jetzt das ganze Parteiprogramm runterladen und durchgehen, mach ich aber nicht.
8 Values: Libertarian Socialist*

Economic Axis: Socialist 76.8%
Diplomatic Axis: Internationalist 80.3%
Civil Axis: Liberal 73.5%
Societal Axis: Very Progressive 75.6%


*since it keeps coming up - this is the category 8V sorted me into. I do not identify as Libertarian.
Self-identified: Democratic Socialist

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Ondonore
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Postby Ondonore » Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:54 am

Remnants of Exilvania wrote:
Ondonore wrote:
Die einzige Position, die die CDU rechts der Mitte vertrat, war das Nein zur Homo-"Ehe" und -Adoption. Doch das spielt seit gestern ohnehin keine Rolle mehr. Wo genau verorten Sie die CDU denn sonst noch rechts?

@exilvania

You don't understand or want to understand that racism, fascism and national chauvinism belong to left-wing policies.

Aha.
Na dann bin ich ja gottfroh, dass ich CDU wähle. Hätte jetzt nichts dagegen den Überwachungsstaat DDR zurückzubringen.


Die CDU war eine konservativ-christdemokratische Partei unter Konrad Adenauer. Seitdem ist sie schrittweise nach links gerückt. Und Merkel hat eine dunkle DDR-Vergangenheit. Ich rate Ihnen, das Bündnis C oder die Zentrumspartei zu wählen.
High King Elessar

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Phoenicaea
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Founded: May 24, 2017
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Postby Phoenicaea » Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:55 am

(Ondonore, all) I suppose me to be inclusive to your stated definition in front of others; about Hitler's militant parties and militia you have got some references indeed; nevertheless I assure your judgment to be stained by fanatism, not overall, fanatism about some issues I suppose.

I don t see well nowadys definition of political spectre, however the defining of center-right as solely csu, and solely as social order fringes parties of the same sort (even if not socialists, I see), this definition is a tool of reactionnary propaganda; this definition is also used as a tv tool of political propaganda by regime and corrupt parties. not German
Last edited by Phoenicaea on Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:59 am, edited 6 times in total.

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Ondonore
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Postby Ondonore » Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:57 am

Omnonia wrote:
Ondonore wrote:Die einzige Position, die die CDU rechts der Mitte vertrat, war das Nein zur Homo-"Ehe" und -Adoption. Doch das spielt seit gestern ohnehin keine Rolle mehr. Wo genau verorten Sie die CDU denn sonst noch rechts?


Quelle
Die CDU definiert sich in ihrem Grundsatzprogramm als „Volkspartei der Mitte“ und bekennt sich zu ihren christlich-sozialen, liberalen und wertkonservativen Wurzeln. Orientierungsmaßstab ist das christliche Menschenbild und davon ausgehend die drei Grundwerte „Freiheit, Solidarität und Gerechtigkeit“. Gesellschaftliches Ziel der CDU ist die Chancengesellschaft, in der die Bürger frei und sicher leben.

Wo um Himmels Willen (heh) ist das bitte schön links der Mitte???

Ich könnte jetzt das ganze Parteiprogramm runterladen und durchgehen, mach ich aber nicht.


Das Programm ist das eine, die Machenschaften das andere. Außerdem sind die angesprochenen "Grundwerte" links, mit Ausnahme der Gerechtigkeit, worunter sich die CDU aber wahrscheinlich was anderes vorstellt.
High King Elessar

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Remnants of Exilvania
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Founded: Mar 29, 2015
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Postby Remnants of Exilvania » Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:58 am

Ondonore wrote:
Remnants of Exilvania wrote:Aha.
Na dann bin ich ja gottfroh, dass ich CDU wähle. Hätte jetzt nichts dagegen den Überwachungsstaat DDR zurückzubringen.


Die CDU war eine konservativ-christdemokratische Partei unter Konrad Adenauer. Seitdem ist sie schrittweise nach links gerückt. Und Merkel hat eine dunkle DDR-Vergangenheit. Ich rate Ihnen, das Bündnis C oder die Zentrumspartei zu wählen.

Beide dieser Parteien existieren praktisch nicht in der Politik.
Entschuldige aber eher gehe ich mit Merkel und ihrer CDU als mit solchen Clowns.
Ex-NE Panzerwaffe Hauptmann; War Merit Cross & Knights Cross of the Iron Cross
Woodhouse Loyalist & Inactive BLITZKRIEG Foreign Relations Minister
REST IN PEACE HERZOG FRIEDRICH VON WÜRTTEMBERG! † 9. May 2018
Furchtlos und Treu dem Hause Württemberg für alle Ewigkeit!

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Liriena
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Posts: 60885
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
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Postby Liriena » Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:20 am

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:
Liriena wrote:Fake news. Sad.

Not even bothering to explain how he's wrong, huh?

Are you really speaking in the third person?

Also, here's how you're wrong: It's not censorship. It's Germany increasing penalties for a pre-existing policy which punishes social media for not enforcing its own policies against hate speech. In other words, if Facebook does not enforce its own guidelines against hate speech (I wonder if you consider those censorship), Germany punishes them.
Last edited by Liriena on Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Eredion
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Postby Eredion » Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:19 am

Remnants of Exilvania wrote:
Ondonore wrote:
Die CDU war eine konservativ-christdemokratische Partei unter Konrad Adenauer. Seitdem ist sie schrittweise nach links gerückt. Und Merkel hat eine dunkle DDR-Vergangenheit. Ich rate Ihnen, das Bündnis C oder die Zentrumspartei zu wählen.

Beide dieser Parteien existieren praktisch nicht in der Politik.
Entschuldige aber eher gehe ich mit Merkel und ihrer CDU als mit solchen Clowns.

Hört hört.
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Eredion
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Postby Eredion » Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:28 am

People always acting like Merkel is trying hard to establish a new Golden Shield Project for Germany and that she is the chairwoman of the super far left communist party CDU.
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Ducal Prussia
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Founded: Jun 30, 2017
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Postby Ducal Prussia » Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:33 am

Der Tradition und Leben!

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Omnonia
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Postby Omnonia » Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:42 am

Eredion wrote:The far-right fringe always acting like Merkel is trying hard to establish a new Golden Shield Project for Germany and that she is the chairwoman of the super far left communist party CDU.

Fixed that for you.
8 Values: Libertarian Socialist*

Economic Axis: Socialist 76.8%
Diplomatic Axis: Internationalist 80.3%
Civil Axis: Liberal 73.5%
Societal Axis: Very Progressive 75.6%


*since it keeps coming up - this is the category 8V sorted me into. I do not identify as Libertarian.
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Eredion
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Postby Eredion » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:39 am

Omnonia wrote:
Eredion wrote:The far-right fringe always acting like Merkel is trying hard to establish a new Golden Shield Project for Germany and that she is the chairwoman of the super far left communist party CDU.

Fixed that for you.

If the only thing right to you is the wall, everything else has to be far-left wing.
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The Empire of Pretantia
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Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:28 pm

Liriena wrote:
The Empire of Pretantia wrote:Not even bothering to explain how he's wrong, huh?

Are you really speaking in the third person?

So he's right?

Also, here's how you're wrong: It's not censorship. It's Germany increasing penalties for a pre-existing policy which punishes social media for not enforcing its own policies against hate speech. In other words, if Facebook does not enforce its own guidelines against hate speech (I wonder if you consider those censorship), Germany punishes them.

So censorship.
Last edited by The Empire of Pretantia on Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Polvamaa
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Postby Polvamaa » Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:32 pm

I am not german, but if i was i would probably vote for AFD.
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Remnants of Exilvania
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Postby Remnants of Exilvania » Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:53 pm

Polvamaa wrote:I am not german, but if i was i would probably vote for AFD.

Funny how it's always the foreigners who would vote for the AfD, is it not?
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Proctopeo
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Postby Proctopeo » Sat Jul 01, 2017 3:57 pm

Remnants of Exilvania wrote:
Polvamaa wrote:I am not german, but if i was i would probably vote for AFD.

Funny how it's always the foreigners who would vote for the AfD, is it not?

There should be an Imperial Germany party so foreigners don't have to settle for AfD.
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Baltenstein
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Postby Baltenstein » Sat Jul 01, 2017 6:03 pm

Ondonore wrote:
Remnants of Exilvania wrote:Aha.
Na dann bin ich ja gottfroh, dass ich CDU wähle. Hätte jetzt nichts dagegen den Überwachungsstaat DDR zurückzubringen.


Die CDU war eine konservativ-christdemokratische Partei unter Konrad Adenauer. Seitdem ist sie schrittweise nach links gerückt. Und Merkel hat eine dunkle DDR-Vergangenheit. Ich rate Ihnen, das Bündnis C oder die Zentrumspartei zu wählen.


Why not promote "Christliche Mitte" or "Partei Bibeltreuer Christen" while at it? They are about as relevant as the two parties you named.
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Eredion
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Postby Eredion » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:09 pm

Baltenstein wrote:
Ondonore wrote:
Die CDU war eine konservativ-christdemokratische Partei unter Konrad Adenauer. Seitdem ist sie schrittweise nach links gerückt. Und Merkel hat eine dunkle DDR-Vergangenheit. Ich rate Ihnen, das Bündnis C oder die Zentrumspartei zu wählen.


Why not promote "Christliche Mitte" or "Partei Bibeltreuer Christen" while at it? They are about as relevant as the two parties you named.

A satirical party called just called "Die Partei" literally the party is more relevant than these parties.
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Arotania
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Postby Arotania » Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:32 am

Eredion wrote:A satirical party called just called "Die Partei" literally the party is more relevant than these parties.


Satirical? You watch your slanderous mouth! :p

In all seriousness though, the MEP they are fielding (Martin Sonneborn) does an astounding job, especially considering that they (initially) put him in a parliamentary group with all the weirdos: https://www.thelocal.de/20141022/satiri ... ravy-train

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Socialist Nordia
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Postby Socialist Nordia » Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:42 am

Eredion wrote:
Baltenstein wrote:
Why not promote "Christliche Mitte" or "Partei Bibeltreuer Christen" while at it? They are about as relevant as the two parties you named.

A satirical party called just called "Die Partei" literally the party is more relevant than these parties.

Still less of a joke than the FDP, apparently. :p
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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:02 am

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:
Liriena wrote:Are you really speaking in the third person?

So he's right?

Also, here's how you're wrong: It's not censorship. It's Germany increasing penalties for a pre-existing policy which punishes social media for not enforcing its own policies against hate speech. In other words, if Facebook does not enforce its own guidelines against hate speech (I wonder if you consider those censorship), Germany punishes them.

So censorship.

Yes, Facebook is censoring free speech. Feel free to screech about it on Facebook. :roll:
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I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


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Omnonia
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Postby Omnonia » Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:04 am

Liriena wrote:
The Empire of Pretantia wrote:So he's right?

So censorship.

Yes, Facebook is censoring free speech. Feel free to screech about it on Facebook. :roll:

Especially as the right to free speech never existed on Facebook.

Privately owned site => speech can be as free or as restricted as the site owner decides it to be, on that site. If you don't like it, you're free to leave.
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Economic Axis: Socialist 76.8%
Diplomatic Axis: Internationalist 80.3%
Civil Axis: Liberal 73.5%
Societal Axis: Very Progressive 75.6%


*since it keeps coming up - this is the category 8V sorted me into. I do not identify as Libertarian.
Self-identified: Democratic Socialist

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Proctopeo
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Postby Proctopeo » Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:02 pm

Liriena wrote:
The Empire of Pretantia wrote:So he's right?

So censorship.

Yes, Facebook is censoring free speech. Feel free to screech about it on Facebook. :roll:

I didn't know this was a farm.

Besides, I'm not completely confident that it's wrong to consider the suppression of certain types of content "censorship" if it's not done by a government.
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