Trump Reverses The Transgender Bathroom Directive

[Khalisako]

Ehhh?! Apparently they think it's wrong, cuz if they didn't, they wouldn't care if their wife gets raped.

Don't know what that has to do with trans policy tho.

We are having to get into esoteric ideas about morality because apparently "it's immoral" isn't a good enough reason to be opposed to something.

wat..?

You do know that no matter what laws are passed to get rid of trans folk, trans folk'll always be knockin' about, right? They aint gonna vanish just cuz god, or the law, said so becuz their morality, (which varies depending on location), or summat. Tho... I suppose increasing trans folk's suicide rates, vulnerability to crime and poverty and such is all more moral than than given them what the need and lettin' em' "muilate" themselves with their own money, right?

That seems like a pretty odd trade-off, if I say so myself.

[Gauthier]

Because it encourages and normalizes morally wrong tendencies, which causes people to feel that anything will be allowed.

Fucking really? We're not going to start murdering people just because some women want to be men and vice versa.

Technically you're wrong. People do get murdered because some women feel they're men and some men feel they're women.

[United Muscovite Nations]

We are having to get into esoteric ideas about morality because apparently "it's immoral" isn't a good enough reason to be opposed to something.

wat..?

You do know that no matter what laws are passed to get rid of trans folk, trans folk'll always be knockin' about, right? They aint gonna vanish just cuz god, or the law, said so becuz their morality, (which varies depending on location), or summat. Tho... I suppose increasing trans folk's suicide rates, vulnerability to crime and poverty and such is all more moral than than given them what the need and lettin' em' "muilate" themselves with their own money, right?

That seems like a pretty odd trade-off, if I say so myself.

The point isn't to make them stop, but to encourage them to think about the decision from a spiritual and religious angle.

[Gauthier]

wat..?

You do know that no matter what laws are passed to get rid of trans folk, trans folk'll always be knockin' about, right? They aint gonna vanish just cuz god, or the law, said so becuz their morality, (which varies depending on location), or summat. Tho... I suppose increasing trans folk's suicide rates, vulnerability to crime and poverty and such is all more moral than than given them what the need and lettin' em' "muilate" themselves with their own money, right?

That seems like a pretty odd trade-off, if I say so myself.

The point isn't to make them stop, but to encourage them to think about the decision from a spiritual and religious angle.

Southpaws used to be forced to write with their right hands. Didn't work as well as hoped.

[The V O I D]

wat..?

You do know that no matter what laws are passed to get rid of trans folk, trans folk'll always be knockin' about, right? They aint gonna vanish just cuz god, or the law, said so becuz their morality, (which varies depending on location), or summat. Tho... I suppose increasing trans folk's suicide rates, vulnerability to crime and poverty and such is all more moral than than given them what the need and lettin' em' "muilate" themselves with their own money, right?

That seems like a pretty odd trade-off, if I say so myself.

The point isn't to make them stop, but to encourage them to think about the decision from a spiritual and religious angle.

No, see, you don't seem to get it. "Praying it away" or pretending they don't have dysphoria doesn't work. Nothing but treating the dysphoria via transition works. This is a proven, scientific fact.

You're basically giving them a choice of "inevitably kill yourself due to depression and dysphoria, but its okay because then gawd will forgive you for being trans" or "live your life to its fullest extent and transition to get rid of your dysphoria, but oh well you burn in hell with satan for being trans."

Except in either case they remain trans, just one involves them trying to deny it and one doesn't.

[United Muscovite Nations]

The point isn't to make them stop, but to encourage them to think about the decision from a spiritual and religious angle.

No, see, you don't seem to get it. "Praying it away" or pretending they don't have dysphoria doesn't work. Nothing but treating the dysphoria via transition works. This is a proven, scientific fact.

You're basically giving them a choice of "inevitably kill yourself due to depression and dysphoria, but its okay because then gawd will forgive you for being trans" or "live your life to its fullest extent and transition to get rid of your dysphoria, but oh well you burn in hell with satan for being trans."

Except in either case they remain trans, just one involves them trying to deny it and one doesn't.

I never claimed they wouldn't suffer, but we are all called to suffer for the faith. If they willingly deny their internal desires for the faith, experiencing great depression as a result, well, that is a saintly thing to do.

[The V O I D]

No, see, you don't seem to get it. "Praying it away" or pretending they don't have dysphoria doesn't work. Nothing but treating the dysphoria via transition works. This is a proven, scientific fact.

You're basically giving them a choice of "inevitably kill yourself due to depression and dysphoria, but its okay because then gawd will forgive you for being trans" or "live your life to its fullest extent and transition to get rid of your dysphoria, but oh well you burn in hell with satan for being trans."

Except in either case they remain trans, just one involves them trying to deny it and one doesn't.

I never claimed they wouldn't suffer, but we are all called to suffer for the faith. If they willingly deny their internal desires for the faith, experiencing great depression as a result, well, that is a saintly thing to do.

That's just fucked up right there. And it isn't an internal desire, it is them. They are the gender they identify as, suppression and such just doesn't work. It never works. Also, pretty sure suicide is a 'sin' according to Christianity, so, their last act on earth would be a 'sin' [killing themselves], which may end up sending them to Hell.

Either way, they end up in Hell, at least according to what you'd have them do and according to your beliefs.

[Novus America]

No, see, you don't seem to get it. "Praying it away" or pretending they don't have dysphoria doesn't work. Nothing but treating the dysphoria via transition works. This is a proven, scientific fact.

You're basically giving them a choice of "inevitably kill yourself due to depression and dysphoria, but its okay because then gawd will forgive you for being trans" or "live your life to its fullest extent and transition to get rid of your dysphoria, but oh well you burn in hell with satan for being trans."

Except in either case they remain trans, just one involves them trying to deny it and one doesn't.

I never claimed they wouldn't suffer, but we are all called to suffer for the faith. If they willingly deny their internal desires for the faith, experiencing great depression as a result, well, that is a saintly thing to do.

Umm we are absolutely NOT called to inflict suffering on other people. Quite the opposite.

[United Muscovite Nations]

I never claimed they wouldn't suffer, but we are all called to suffer for the faith. If they willingly deny their internal desires for the faith, experiencing great depression as a result, well, that is a saintly thing to do.

That's just fucked up right there. And it isn't an internal desire, it is them. They are the gender they identify as, suppression and such just doesn't work. It never works. Also, pretty sure suicide is a 'sin' according to Christianity, so, their last act on earth would be a 'sin' [killing themselves], which may end up sending them to Hell.

Either way, they end up in Hell, at least according to what you'd have them do and according to your beliefs.

I don't buy that every trans person that doesn't transition kills themselves, and suicide is always a choice anyway.

[United Muscovite Nations]

I never claimed they wouldn't suffer, but we are all called to suffer for the faith. If they willingly deny their internal desires for the faith, experiencing great depression as a result, well, that is a saintly thing to do.

Umm we are absolutely NOT called to inflict suffering on other people. Quite the opposite.

Where did I say such a thing? Or are you in the business of not reading my posts and responding to the nonexistent?

[Novus America]

Umm we are absolutely NOT called to inflict suffering on other people. Quite the opposite.

Where did I say such a thing? Or are you in the business of not reading my posts and responding to the nonexistent?

Then you can agree that while you can advocate what you want, you cannot force it on anyone.
You cannot make others suffer for the faith. Only suffer yourself.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Where did I say such a thing? Or are you in the business of not reading my posts and responding to the nonexistent?

Then you can agree that while you can advocate what you want, you cannot force it on anyone.
You cannot make others suffer for the faith. Only suffer yourself.

Doesn't mean I have to support giving them what they want.

[Gauthier]

Then you can agree that while you can advocate what you want, you cannot force it on anyone.
You cannot make others suffer for the faith. Only suffer yourself.

Doesn't mean I have to support giving them what they want.

Nobody's demanding it from you.

[The V O I D]

That's just fucked up right there. And it isn't an internal desire, it is them. They are the gender they identify as, suppression and such just doesn't work. It never works. Also, pretty sure suicide is a 'sin' according to Christianity, so, their last act on earth would be a 'sin' [killing themselves], which may end up sending them to Hell.

Either way, they end up in Hell, at least according to what you'd have them do and according to your beliefs.

I don't buy that every trans person that doesn't transition kills themselves, and suicide is always a choice anyway.

Those that don't usually end up with crippling depression and extreme dysphoria, to the point where they probably won't be able to function in society as a whole (i.e. joblessness, potential homelessness, extreme debt, etc.).

UMN, it is literally a matter of life or death for them. If not actual physical death, then metaphorical 'death' in the sense that they might as well be dead due to how little they function.

[Novus America]

Then you can agree that while you can advocate what you want, you cannot force it on anyone.
You cannot make others suffer for the faith. Only suffer yourself.

Doesn't mean I have to support giving them what they want.

Sure. And nobody is saying you have to.

[The V O I D]

Then you can agree that while you can advocate what you want, you cannot force it on anyone.
You cannot make others suffer for the faith. Only suffer yourself.

Doesn't mean I have to support giving them what they want.

Of course not. But you shouldn't forbid them from doing what they need to live their life, either ; nor support doing so.

And before you say you aren't forbidding them - yes, you are, by (essentially) trying to cram religious mumbo jumbo down their throats and telling them to 'be normal or go to hell'.

[United Muscovite Nations]

I don't buy that every trans person that doesn't transition kills themselves, and suicide is always a choice anyway.

Those that don't usually end up with crippling depression and extreme dysphoria, to the point where they probably won't be able to function in society as a whole (i.e. joblessness, potential homelessness, extreme debt, etc.).

UMN, it is literally a matter of life or death for them. If not actual physical death, then metaphorical 'death' in the sense that they might as well be dead due to how little they function.

Then we shall take care of their needs for food, work, and shelter.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Doesn't mean I have to support giving them what they want.

Of course not. But you shouldn't forbid them from doing what they need to live their life, either ; nor support doing so.

And before you say you aren't forbidding them - yes, you are, by (essentially) trying to cram religious mumbo jumbo down their throats and telling them to 'be normal or go to hell'.

As I said, everyone tries to instill their morality into their children.

[Khalisako]

wat..?

You do know that no matter what laws are passed to get rid of trans folk, trans folk'll always be knockin' about, right? They aint gonna vanish just cuz god, or the law, said so becuz their morality, (which varies depending on location), or summat. Tho... I suppose increasing trans folk's suicide rates, vulnerability to crime and poverty and such is all more moral than than given them what the need and lettin' em' "muilate" themselves with their own money, right?

That seems like a pretty odd trade-off, if I say so myself.

The point isn't to make them stop, but to encourage them to think about the decision from a spiritual and religious angle.

Arlight, and I suppose if their people's creator, (or any creator), is good with it and has given the trans person that journey to complete and attain spiritual enlightment from, than that's what must be done then, right? That person must transition. It's what they were meant to do.

If the trans person get the message that it's really not their calling, than that's what they must do. Not transition.

Perhaps god intended for both things, but never intended it to be easy things. We can agree here and there, yes?

[Gauthier]

Oh the belief than transsexuality is an elective like a college course.

[The V O I D]

Those that don't usually end up with crippling depression and extreme dysphoria, to the point where they probably won't be able to function in society as a whole (i.e. joblessness, potential homelessness, extreme debt, etc.).

UMN, it is literally a matter of life or death for them. If not actual physical death, then metaphorical 'death' in the sense that they might as well be dead due to how little they function.

Then we shall take care of their needs for food, work, and shelter.

The problem with crippling depression at the level of examples I gave is usually they are jobless because they don't want to work or do anything, in extreme debt because they don't care about paying it off or their well being, and homeless because of the lack of job or paying off debts.

Not sure what the statistics of death are for those with crippling depression, but I'm sure most either die from suicide and/or literally lack of hygiene.

Of course not. But you shouldn't forbid them from doing what they need to live their life, either ; nor support doing so.

And before you say you aren't forbidding them - yes, you are, by (essentially) trying to cram religious mumbo jumbo down their throats and telling them to 'be normal or go to hell'.

As I said, everyone tries to instill their morality into their children.

They really shouldn't, especially in cases like these where it will be inherently psychologically harmful for the child (even if they are just homosexual or bisexual). If instilling morality implies causing the child depression, especially during teenage years when they want to form relationships, then I say count it as child abuse.

[United Muscovite Nations]

The point isn't to make them stop, but to encourage them to think about the decision from a spiritual and religious angle.

Arlight, and I suppose if their people's creator, (or any creator), is good with it and has given the trans person that journey to complete and attain spiritual enlightment from, than that's what must be done then, right? That person must transition. It's what they were meant to do.

If the trans person get the message that it's really not their calling, than that's what they must do. Not transition.

Perhaps god intended for both things, but never intended it to be easy things. We can agree here and there, yes?

I think God's will in the matter is pretty clear, but, I don't think they should have to be of my faith; I just think they should uphold basic morality in public, which, as far as transgender issues goes, not being out of place and not marrying someone of the same sex via transition.

[Mechanisburg]

The point isn't to make them stop, but to encourage them to think about the decision from a spiritual and religious angle.

Arlight, and I suppose if their people's creator, (or any creator), is good with it and has given the trans person that journey to complete and attain spiritual enlightment from, than that's what must be done then, right? That person must transition. It's what they were meant to do.

If the trans person get the message that it's really not their calling, than that's what they must do. Not transition.

Perhaps god intended for both things, but never intended it to be easy things. We can agree here and there, yes?

I think that any creator that would willingly inflict the pox that is gender dysphoria on any of his creatures, to "test their faith", is a bit of a dick and should be shunned and ignored until he's willing to play nice. He's not above the law, and if he can't adapt he can die.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Then we shall take care of their needs for food, work, and shelter.

The problem with crippling depression at the level of examples I gave is usually they are jobless because they don't want to work or do anything, in extreme debt because they don't care about paying it off or their well being, and homeless because of the lack of job or paying off debts.

Not sure what the statistics of death are for those with crippling depression, but I'm sure most either die from suicide and/or literally lack of hygiene.

As I said, everyone tries to instill their morality into their children.

They really shouldn't, especially in cases like these where it will be inherently psychologically harmful for the child (even if they are just homosexual or bisexual). If instilling morality implies causing the child depression, especially during teenage years when they want to form relationships, then I say count it as child abuse.

As someone who has had crippling depression, no, we don't all die.

"It's child abuse to teach your child a moral code"
lol

[The V O I D]

Arlight, and I suppose if their people's creator, (or any creator), is good with it and has given the trans person that journey to complete and attain spiritual enlightment from, than that's what must be done then, right? That person must transition. It's what they were meant to do.

If the trans person get the message that it's really not their calling, than that's what they must do. Not transition.

Perhaps god intended for both things, but never intended it to be easy things. We can agree here and there, yes?

I think God's will in the matter is pretty clear, but, I don't think they should have to be of my faith; I just think they should uphold basic morality in public, which, as far as transgender issues goes, not being out of place and not marrying someone of the same sex via transition.

Can someone look up the statistics for how many trans people are straight (i.e. transmen dating ciswomen / transwomen dating cismen) vs those which are homosexual?

I'm not sure which type of relationship you mean for transgender people, but I just want the stats to clarify whether or not what you speak of is, in general, commonplace among the transgender community.