Trump Reverses The Transgender Bathroom Directive

[Ifreann]

It's quite the fitting term for wanting to destroy one's genital and replace them with either a hole or an excrescence, indeed. What's the problem here?

So you've never seen a neovagina.

Do neovaginas come with blinking lights and NFC and a USB port?

---

Damn, all I can say is if urinals get removed from guys bathrooms over this bull, I'm moving to the bottom of the ocean to live in a pineapple.

No one is proposing removing urinals. Why would they?

Though don't rule out the pineapple thing, I hear they have very affordable rent.

---

Whether they're good or not at their job doesn't change the fact that, in the end, they're mutilating a body. And no. None of the people you're talking to in your last sentence made the willing choice to remove their genital and replace them with something else because they thought that "they would be better that way".

As is the case with mastectomy in case of breast cancer, or hysterectomy, or appendectomy, or orchidectomy, or a lot of other stuff that end with -tomy. In the end, they are mutilating a body. They made a willing choice to go through that removal, because they thought "they would be better that way".

My poor mutilated throat just hasn't been the same since the tonsillectomy.

[Brkelgarozed]

The decision to transition is.

Oh, sure, let's force transgender people to feel dysphoria until their bodies develop into the sex that they don't want to be, that'll make sure they won't have dysphoria or will make them able to make a decision better, and will definitely in no way be harmful based on the evidence. /sarcasm

Children are not old enough to transition period. They may think they are trans but in most cases of childhood dysphoria by the time the children get to age of puberty there dysphoria is gone. 99% people identify as the sex they are born with.

[Mechanisburg]

You are aware you are just nitpicking now? "everyone agrees to" does not mean literally everyone, because obviously newborns and people with late-stage Alzheimer or dementia won't be able to have a say in the matter.

And even the ideologies which believe killing humans is the correct thing to do do so by saying "some people deserve death because they are not like us" (AKA, it's not morally murder). The massive amount of people who do it would still agree rape is wrong - ask them if they would like their sister or wife to be raped, and they'd reply "no what the fuck man" - but everyone has extenuating circumstances.

Then you think that morality is just based on majority decision, not on any principles.

Morality is just common sense, and it's agreed upon by an extremely large majority of people. I like to think I gave my own a bit more thought, tho, principles being featured into it, considering the sheer amount of time I spent navel-gazing during my life.

[Ifreann]

Oh, sure, let's force transgender people to feel dysphoria until their bodies develop into the sex that they don't want to be, that'll make sure they won't have dysphoria or will make them able to make a decision better, and will definitely in no way be harmful based on the evidence. /sarcasm

Children are not old enough to transition period. They may think they are trans but in most cases of childhood dysphoria by the time the children get to age of puberty there dysphoria is gone. 99% people identify as the sex they are born with.

Fascinating unsupported claims you have there.

[Salandriagado]

Well your opinion can be your "moral" code I guess. The problem is that it holds no weight for the person in question.

I think maintaining the moral code of a religious faith is better than making one up as you go along.

Thankfully, the proxy that you happen to be using to avoid actually thinking about morality has no bearing whatsoever on US law.

You are not bothered by people for practicing your religion and people are not bothered by you practicing your religion.

What exactly is the problem?

Actually, I am bothered by plenty of people for practicing my religion. The media often publicly attacks my religion, and even supports people who vandalize our Churches.

Someone saying that they disagree with you is not an attack.

[The V O I D]

Oh, sure, let's force transgender people to feel dysphoria until their bodies develop into the sex that they don't want to be, that'll make sure they won't have dysphoria or will make them able to make a decision better, and will definitely in no way be harmful based on the evidence. /sarcasm

Children are not old enough to transition period. They may think they are trans but in most cases of childhood dysphoria by the time the children get to age of puberty there dysphoria is gone. 99% people identify as the sex they are born with.

Hence why I think transitioning should begin at, if not slightly before, puberty. It can't begin later as the longer they wait, if they are indeed transgender, then the worse the dysphoria will get.

[Chricoma]

I am a very traditional national socialist so I believe he made the right decision, I mean please this my opinion respect and i'll respect yours

I believe transgenders and homosexuals are perverts

THAT'S ME

[Ifreann]

I am a very traditional national socialist so I believe he made the right decision, I mean please this my opinion respect and i'll respect yours

I believe transgenders and homosexuals are perverts

THAT'S ME

Your opinion is bad and you should feel bad.

[The V O I D]

I am a very traditional national socialist so I believe he made the right decision, I mean please this my opinion respect and i'll respect yours

I believe transgenders and homosexuals are perverts

THAT'S ME

Your opinion is bad and you should feel bad.

This.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Actually, I am bothered by plenty of people for practicing my religion. The media often publicly attacks my religion, and even supports people who vandalize our Churches.

Example?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jon-obrie ... 48356.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/1 ... 75634.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-raus ... 85498.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/martin-ma ... 07994.html

Just from one media outlet.

[Salandriagado]

Example?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jon-obrie ... 48356.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/1 ... 75634.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-raus ... 85498.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/martin-ma ... 07994.html

Just from one media outlet.

Looks like a whole lot of criticising senior members of your religion for being dickheads to me.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Then you think that morality is just based on majority decision, not on any principles.

Morality is just common sense, and it's agreed upon by an extremely large majority of people. I like to think I gave my own a bit more thought, tho, principles being featured into it, considering the sheer amount of time I spent navel-gazing during my life.

If morality is common-sense, then why did we codify it?

[Mechanisburg]

Oh, sure, let's force transgender people to feel dysphoria until their bodies develop into the sex that they don't want to be, that'll make sure they won't have dysphoria or will make them able to make a decision better, and will definitely in no way be harmful based on the evidence. /sarcasm

Children are not old enough to transition period. They may think they are trans but in most cases of childhood dysphoria by the time the children get to age of puberty there dysphoria is gone. 99% people identify as the sex they are born with.

Why are you even arguing against children transitioning? Also, where have you found this "in most cases by the time the children get to age of puberty the dysphoria is gone"?

No, because no prepuberal children can medically transition, as medical transition is effectively puberty and early puberty is considered disadvantageous. Puberal children who show symptoms of gender dysphoria are treated as per Hembree, 2009:

Because a diagnosis of transsexualism in a prepubertal child cannot be made with certainty, we do not recommend endocrine treatment of prepubertal children. We recommend treating transsexual adolescents (Tanner stage 2) by suppressing puberty with GnRH analogues until age 16 years old, after which cross-sex hormones may be given.

The fact 99% of people identify as the gender they have been assigned is irrelevant in a discussion about the outliers who don't - and you might want to know that when Steensma, 2009 analyzed the factors associated with persistence and desistence of gender dysphoria they found that intensity of symptoms was a pretty good predictor of persistence - AKA, children who are gender dysphoric, and not merely gender non-conforming, will keep on being gender dysphoric as they grow up.

[Brkelgarozed]

Children are not old enough to transition period. They may think they are trans but in most cases of childhood dysphoria by the time the children get to age of puberty there dysphoria is gone. 99% people identify as the sex they are born with.

Hence why I think transitioning should begin at, if not slightly before, puberty. It can't begin later as the longer they wait, if they are indeed transgender, then the worse the dysphoria will get.

I agree

[United Muscovite Nations]

Rights are a moral point of view. Why should the government endorse that point of view over others?

Pragmatism really. So we are not just chimps raping and murdering each other in the jungle. So we can have civilization.
Without that viewpoint I cannot live mostly freely. It is the way to maximize freedom. To accomdate as many viewpoints as possible.

How do we decide that civilization and accommodating viewpoints is good?

[Trotza]

Example?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jon-obrie ... 48356.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/1 ... 75634.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-raus ... 85498.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/martin-ma ... 07994.html

Just from one media outlet.

Yeah, because it's the Huffington Post.

[Novus America]

Example?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jon-obrie ... 48356.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/1 ... 75634.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-raus ... 85498.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/martin-ma ... 07994.html

Just from one media outlet.

The Huffpo being Huffpo does not force anything on you. Nobody is forcing you to read their nonsensical drivel.

[United Muscovite Nations]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jon-obrie ... 48356.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/1 ... 75634.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-raus ... 85498.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/martin-ma ... 07994.html

Just from one media outlet.

Looks like a whole lot of criticising senior members of your religion for being dickheads to me.

One article is attacking the Patriarch for basically holding to his faith, another attacks him for supporting the defeat of the Nazis, falsely claiming that he must love Stalin during it, and another basically says he should tolerate people coming in and vandalizing the holy Cathedral.

Yeah, "being a dickhead".

[Ifreann]

Morality is just common sense, and it's agreed upon by an extremely large majority of people. I like to think I gave my own a bit more thought, tho, principles being featured into it, considering the sheer amount of time I spent navel-gazing during my life.

If morality is common-sense, then why did we codify it?

Makes it easier to throw people in an oubliette for being immoral.

[Novus America]

Pragmatism really. So we are not just chimps raping and murdering each other in the jungle. So we can have civilization.
Without that viewpoint I cannot live mostly freely. It is the way to maximize freedom. To accomdate as many viewpoints as possible.

How do we decide that civilization and accommodating viewpoints is good?

Because of survival presumably. And comfort. Primitivism sucks.
Our survival instincts make us not like being raped, murdered and dying of disease by 30.

[Mechanisburg]

Morality is just common sense, and it's agreed upon by an extremely large majority of people. I like to think I gave my own a bit more thought, tho, principles being featured into it, considering the sheer amount of time I spent navel-gazing during my life.

If morality is common-sense, then why did we codify it?

Because there are a lot of fiddly things that can go on and while people can agree theft or rape is wrong they usually won't agree on what constitutes appropriate response? So you sit down, take a chisel and a stone tablet and go at it - Hammurabi docet.

Thou shall not kill, for death is bad 'mkay? and even if John there said he wants to stone you we are pretty sure he just needs to take his pills but anyway we kinda agree that you should be kept far away from people for a few years, let's say 10 to 30, less if you really didn't want to, but more if the reasons were crappy, and no punishment will be meted out if you were really sure it was kill or be killed.

[United Muscovite Nations]

If morality is common-sense, then why did we codify it?

Because there are a lot of fiddly things that can go on and while people can agree theft or rape is wrong they usually won't agree on what constitutes appropriate response? So you sit down, take a chisel and a stone tablet and go at it - Hammurabi docet.

Thou shall not kill, for death is bad 'mkay? and even if John there said he wants to stone you we are pretty sure he just needs to take his pills but anyway we kinda agree that you should be kept far away from people for a few years, let's say 10 to 30, less if you really didn't want to, but more if the reasons were crappy, and no punishment will be meted out if you were really sure it was kill or be killed.

They don't agree that theft or rape is wrong; in pre-modern times, people did it all the damn time. The Japanese raped a whole damn city. The Nazis raped ten million Soviet women, etc.

[The V O I D]

Hence why I think transitioning should begin at, if not slightly before, puberty. It can't begin later as the longer they wait, if they are indeed transgender, then the worse the dysphoria will get.

I agree

Oh. Well, then, I'm sorry. I assumed that you meant kids as in teens and such, or kids as in pre-puberty ages that are nearing puberty [10-12].

If you mean kids as in when they are like 5-10, then I see your point.

[United Muscovite Nations]

How do we decide that civilization and accommodating viewpoints is good?

Because of survival presumably. And comfort. Primitivism sucks.
Our survival instructs make us not like being raped, murdered an dying of disease by 30.

I agree with that, but that is still just our opinion. And that is my point, when you reduce morality to just opinion, then anything is permissible.

[Mechanisburg]

Because there are a lot of fiddly things that can go on and while people can agree theft or rape is wrong they usually won't agree on what constitutes appropriate response? So you sit down, take a chisel and a stone tablet and go at it - Hammurabi docet.

They don't agree that theft or rape is wrong; in pre-modern times, people did it all the damn time. The Japanese raped a whole damn city. The Nazis raped ten million Soviet women, etc.

They do. Ask any Nazi or member of the WWII Japanese army if he was ok with his wife being raped and he will reply "no!". Ask any pre-modern person the same question and the reply will be the same.

They do think rape is wrong, and theft is wrong, and murder is wrong. But they tell themselves "it's not real rape, it's not real murder, they deserve it, she was asking for it" - they do know what they do is wrong, as they wouldn't like if it was done to themselves or to their friends or relatives, but they make excuses for themselves.