Trump Reverses The Transgender Bathroom Directive

[Berdmayun]

Damn, all I can say is if urinals get removed from guys bathrooms over this bull, I'm moving to the bottom of the ocean to live in a pineapple.

[Hashirajima]

Mutilate? Seriously?

It's quite the fitting term for wanting to destroy one's genital and replace them with either a hole or an excrescence, indeed. What's the problem here?

And I do hope for your sake that there's no surgeons on this thread, for that statement is a grave, grave insult to the amount of training any surgeon undergoes before being permitted to perform any procedure. Doesn't help that this statement can easily be interpreted to imply coverage of a wide, wide range of reconstructive plastic surgery.

[Greed and Death]

And yet there are.

Children should make those types of decision they are mentally developed enough make a decision that can alter their body forever. Period.

The surgery can wait until after the age of 18, hormone therapy can generally begin once growth stops and puberty finishes (16 or so in most cases). Before that a person suffering from Gender Dysphoria can be allowed to wear clothes of the gender they identify as well as being treated as the gender they identify as such as using the bathroom.

[Aelex]

I don't think you understand what that word means.

Question was raised before and all the moralists haven't answered so it was raised again.

Personally, I don't have any issues with who can use the bathroom. The US has been plagued by the puritan crap for far too long.

It means something so utterly banal and devoid of thought that it has no kind of interest whatsoever; which is funny because that's the best way to describe what your non arguments and japes have been so far.
Let's put it simply; you're the one who want to change the current situation which is the one most are confortable with so, why exactly should people bend over to your will? It's a simple question really.

[Aelex]

So you've never seen a neovagina.

Hey mate, by now I'm sure you should be aware that I'm not into traps.

[Greed and Death]

So you've never seen a neovagina.

Hey mate, by now I'm sure you should be aware that I'm not into traps.

All of your favorite porn sites have them.

[Aelex]

And I do hope for your sake that there's no surgeons on this thread, for that statement is a grave, grave insult to the amount of training any surgeon undergoes before being permitted to perform any procedure. Doesn't help that this statement can easily be interpreted to imply coverage of a wide, wide range of reconstructive plastic surgery.

Whether they're good or not at their job doesn't change the fact that, in the end, they're mutilating a body. And no. None of the people you're talking to in your last sentence made the willing choice to remove their genital and replace them with something else because they thought that "they would be better that way".

[Nekotani]

I can't tell what exactly Trump's motivation behind this, but I'd be willing to bet he's either trying to court the conservative establishment because of how much he's alienated nearly everyone, or Pence managed to influence him which isn't that hard.

The Donald:

Do you seriously want males to have to use female restrooms? Would YOU want to use a female restroom if you've been male all your life except a few years? You're in your lower 70s. Imagine having been a man since you were 20 (about 50 years since then) and all of a sudden having to use female restrooms! Me thinky that you no likey that

I really don't need to be told by a man who "grabs women by the pussy" that I'm a danger to other females because of my bits.

If you can't see how letting people mutilate themselves just because "they want to" is morally bankrupt, I'm not sure what I can tell you, honestly.

Then you probably haven't bothered to think your morality through if you're unable to explain it to someone else.

People think there is some kind of magic essence which makes something a penis or vagina. There isn't, it's just a piece of flesh which can be reorganized into the other with surgery.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Children should make those types of decision they are mentally developed enough make a decision that can alter their body forever. Period.

Well? Problem is that and homosexuality isn't a choice.

It is, however, a choice to go along with such feelings, rather than oppose them as they ought.

[Mechanisburg]

Then you probably haven't bothered to think your morality through if you're unable to explain it to someone else.

"Huuuu, if you're unable to explain why exactly it's immoral to let people suffering from mental diseases mutilate themselves then that clearly mean that your morality isn't well thought!"
Fucking please, if you need to be explained why such a thing is immoral then you simply have no morality to begin with.

I already said this on page 28 of this thread, but I'll repeat myself once more.

Surgery, performed by a surgeon, who studied a decade to become one, and who has years of experience, is not mutilation. If I was a SRS surgeon I'd sue everyone who said this for slander. Also, pretty sure mutilation should involve removal of a function unless it is strictly necessary for the health of the patient, because we don't call mastectomy or hysterectomy or orchidectomy performed on cancer patients mutilation.

The word mutilation is either touted by people who don't understand how surgery works and what surgery involves, or by people who do not have any argument and need to use cheap appeals to emotion in the form of "Ha, those crazy transes! They want to mutilate their genitals!" - if your best talking point is misrepresentation of what a surgeon does as "mutilation" maybe you should stop, take a few steps back, and ask yourself why is what you are talking about so important you need to ignore reality to get people to agree with you.

[The Black Forrest]

Well? Problem is that and homosexuality isn't a choice.

It is, however, a choice to go along with such feelings, rather than oppose them as they ought.

Why should they oppose them?

[Mechanisburg]

Well? Problem is that and homosexuality isn't a choice.

It is, however, a choice to go along with such feelings, rather than oppose them as they ought.

Ought? According to whom, pray tell?

[Berdmayun]

What the hell is morality anyways, it depends on how you view the world, I mean there really is nothing saying you are right and wrong other than a government giving orders, as your own self you can do anything so what is the freakin point of existing?

I hope someone gets my point.

[United Muscovite Nations]

It is, however, a choice to go along with such feelings, rather than oppose them as they ought.

Why should they oppose them?

Moral reasons that you don't subscribe to, obviously.

[Hashirajima]

And I do hope for your sake that there's no surgeons on this thread, for that statement is a grave, grave insult to the amount of training any surgeon undergoes before being permitted to perform any procedure. Doesn't help that this statement can easily be interpreted to imply coverage of a wide, wide range of reconstructive plastic surgery.

Whether they're good or not at their job doesn't change the fact that, in the end, they're mutilating a body. And no. None of the people you're talking to in your last sentence made the willing choice to remove their genital and replace them with something else because they thought that "they would be better that way".

*Point goes whoosh*

Do allow me to clarify. I'm talking *purely* about surgical technique here. And trust me, SRS is *very* complex. That alone would render the term "mutilation", in describing the procedure, a grave insult. I'm neither talking about the intentions behind the procedure, nor am I interested in said topic at the moment.

Your morals are yours, and with all due respect, I can't be bothered to dissuade you.

[Mechanisburg]

And I do hope for your sake that there's no surgeons on this thread, for that statement is a grave, grave insult to the amount of training any surgeon undergoes before being permitted to perform any procedure. Doesn't help that this statement can easily be interpreted to imply coverage of a wide, wide range of reconstructive plastic surgery.

Whether they're good or not at their job doesn't change the fact that, in the end, they're mutilating a body. And no. None of the people you're talking to in your last sentence made the willing choice to remove their genital and replace them with something else because they thought that "they would be better that way".

As is the case with mastectomy in case of breast cancer, or hysterectomy, or appendectomy, or orchidectomy, or a lot of other stuff that end with -tomy. In the end, they are mutilating a body. They made a willing choice to go through that removal, because they thought "they would be better that way".

[Hashirajima]

Well? Problem is that and homosexuality isn't a choice.

It is, however, a choice to go along with such feelings, rather than oppose them as they ought.

"Ought".

Oh, do tell why would it be considered "ought", now?

[The Black Forrest]

I don't think you understand what that word means.

Question was raised before and all the moralists haven't answered so it was raised again.

Personally, I don't have any issues with who can use the bathroom. The US has been plagued by the puritan crap for far too long.

It means something so utterly banal and devoid of thought that it has no kind of interest whatsoever; which is funny because that's the best way to describe what your non arguments and japes have been so far.
Let's put it simply; you're the one who want to change the current situation which is the one most are confortable with so, why exactly should people bend over to your will? It's a simple question really.

It's ok. I understand your frustration at not being able to offer an argument to Gallo's question.

[Nekotani]

Why should they oppose them?

Moral reasons that you don't subscribe to, obviously.

So, in other words, no good reason whatsoever.

[The Black Forrest]

Why should they oppose them?

Moral reasons that you don't subscribe to, obviously.

And what "moral" reasons would those be?

[Mechanisburg]

What the hell is morality anyways, it depends on how you view the world, I mean there really is nothing saying you are right and wrong other than a government giving orders, as your own self you can do anything so what is the freakin point of existing?

I hope someone gets my point.

There's also the basic social contract between human beings - "I don't kill you, you don't kill me; I don't steal from you, you don't steal from me; and we both punish those who do this, because being dead is not of the good and having a good cow stolen is a pretty big inconvenience".

[Aelex]

As is the case with mastectomy in case of breast cancer, or hysterectomy, or appendectomy, or orchidectomy, or a lot of other stuff that end with -tomy. In the end, they are mutilating a body. They made a willing choice to go through that removal, because they thought "they would be better that way".

All of which result from them suffering from physical diseases like cancer by exemple.

[Hashirajima]

As is the case with mastectomy in case of breast cancer, or hysterectomy, or appendectomy, or orchidectomy, or a lot of other stuff that end with -tomy. In the end, they are mutilating a body. They made a willing choice to go through that removal, because they thought "they would be better that way".

All of which result from them suffering from physical diseases like cancer by exemple.

Corrections. Prophylactic mastectomy does, in fact, exist. In which breast removal is conducted because of merely an increased risk of cancer, but not actual onset of the cancer.

And just to offset something I can spot coming from a klick away or more: Risk of disease =/= disease

[United Muscovite Nations]

Moral reasons that you don't subscribe to, obviously.

And what "moral" reasons would those be?

That it is wrong to masquerade as a member of the opposite sex.

[The Black Forrest]

As is the case with mastectomy in case of breast cancer, or hysterectomy, or appendectomy, or orchidectomy, or a lot of other stuff that end with -tomy. In the end, they are mutilating a body. They made a willing choice to go through that removal, because they thought "they would be better that way".

All of which result from them suffering from physical diseases like cancer by exemple.

And?

So how are you hurt by this?