NationStates

Jamzmania wrote:It must be a particularly large church to be able to afford/want its own police department. Private entities having police departments is not really a new thing, though. Many universities have police departments, and I know of at least one hospital system which has one.

The church wants its own police department to protect and patrol it's Christian schools and seminary.

Costa Fierro wrote:

Jamzmania wrote:It must be a particularly large church to be able to afford/want its own police department. Private entities having police departments is not really a new thing, though. Many universities have police departments, and I know of at least one hospital system which has one.

The church wants its own police department to protect and patrol it's Christian schools and seminary.

Seems reasonable, I suppose.

Well it's no different to school district police or campus police. The difference is it's being established by the church itself rather than a public body or university administration board.

I have to say, what's so terrible about this? Do the police have jurisdiction anywhere but the church? And to you comment, "...this illegal crap", is it really illegal if Congress says it is fine? Because Congress makes the law, right?

Pantorrum wrote:I have to say, what's so terrible about this? Do the police have jurisdiction anywhere but the church? And to you comment, "...this illegal crap", is it really illegal if Congress says it is fine? Because Congress makes the law, right?

It's the state legislature, not Congress.

Pantorrum wrote:I have to say, what's so terrible about this? Do the police have jurisdiction anywhere but the church? And to you comment, "...this illegal crap", is it really illegal if Congress says it is fine? Because Congress makes the law, right?

I can honestly see this one going through the courts up to Supreme. Someone is going to sue under the 1st.

Fartsniffage wrote:

Pantorrum wrote:I have to say, what's so terrible about this? Do the police have jurisdiction anywhere but the church? And to you comment, "...this illegal crap", is it really illegal if Congress says it is fine? Because Congress makes the law, right?

I can honestly see this one going through the courts up to Supreme. Someone is going to sue under the 1st.

I doubt it would go that far. Christian organizations already have police departments in the US.

Jamzmania wrote:

Fartsniffage wrote:
I can honestly see this one going through the courts up to Supreme. Someone is going to sue under the 1st.

I doubt it would go that far. Christian organizations already have police departments in the US.

Other churches though?

Fartsniffage wrote:

Jamzmania wrote:I doubt it would go that far. Christian organizations already have police departments in the US.

Other churches though?

I don't know. I don't see how it either establishes a state religion or restricts freedom of religion.

Fartsniffage wrote:

Pantorrum wrote:I have to say, what's so terrible about this? Do the police have jurisdiction anywhere but the church? And to you comment, "...this illegal crap", is it really illegal if Congress says it is fine? Because Congress makes the law, right?

I can honestly see this one going through the courts up to Supreme. Someone is going to sue under the 1st.

Why? It's already been explained several times that they're just a security force. They can't enforce anything other than the law as it is.

Pantorrum wrote:I have to say, what's so terrible about this? Do the police have jurisdiction anywhere but the church? And to you comment, "...this illegal crap", is it really illegal if Congress says it is fine? Because Congress makes the law, right?

Constitution and Supreme Court say illegal...

Cedoria wrote:

Pantorrum wrote:I have to say, what's so terrible about this? Do the police have jurisdiction anywhere but the church? And to you comment, "...this illegal crap", is it really illegal if Congress says it is fine? Because Congress makes the law, right?

Constitution and Supreme Court say illegal...

Plenty of private organizations, including religious ones, have police departments.

Jamzmania wrote:

Fartsniffage wrote:
Other churches though?

I don't know. I don't see how it either establishes a state religion or restricts freedom of religion.

Someone will. Probably someone from the ACLU with a law degree.

Salus Maior wrote:

Fartsniffage wrote:
I can honestly see this one going through the courts up to Supreme. Someone is going to sue under the 1st.

Why? It's already been explained several times that they're just a security force. They can't enforce anything other than the law as it is.

It's granting a church the power of arrest, security forces don't have that. It's gonna be challenged under the 1st.

Of course this is a problem!
Yet why does this sound familiar?
Oh Ya! SHARIA!
Its a serious problem regardless of the religion in question!

The Althing Confederacy wrote:Of course this is a problem!
Yet why does this sound familiar?
Oh Ya! SHARIA!
Its a serious problem regardless of the religion in question!

That's not really accurate. They're only be able to apply US law, not christian law.

Fartsniffage wrote:

Salus Maior wrote:
Why? It's already been explained several times that they're just a security force. They can't enforce anything other than the law as it is.

It's granting a church the power of arrest, security forces don't have that. It's gonna be challenged under the 1st.

Again, Campus police

Internationalist Bastard wrote:

Fartsniffage wrote:
It's granting a church the power of arrest, security forces don't have that. It's gonna be challenged under the 1st.

Again, Campus police

Universities aren't a church. They might be religiously based but I'll bet real money that the ACLU will find a legal difference and go after it.

Fartsniffage wrote:

Internationalist Bastard wrote:Again, Campus police

Universities aren't a church. They might be religiously based but I'll bet real money that the ACLU will find a legal difference and go after it.

Well there is a school on the church grounds

Internationalist Bastard wrote:

Fartsniffage wrote:
Universities aren't a church. They might be religiously based but I'll bet real money that the ACLU will find a legal difference and go after it.

Well there is a school on the church grounds

And before you ask for source, my tablets dying so I might not respond

Internationalist Bastard wrote:

Fartsniffage wrote:
Universities aren't a church. They might be religiously based but I'll bet real money that the ACLU will find a legal difference and go after it.

Well there is a school on the church grounds

I really didn't think it would be a contentious point that the ACLU might have an issue with this.

That's not really accurate. They're only be able to apply US law, not christian law.

While my last post was hyperbolically sarcastic, the point is that religious based police and/or militias run a serious risk of beoming intolerant and divisive; either out of nature or as a response.

If someone is religiously motivated to protect their community (a laudable desire) then they should join their law enforcement agencies and/or form registered community watches opened to anyone in their local community.

Fartsniffage wrote:

The Althing Confederacy wrote:Of course this is a problem!
Yet why does this sound familiar?
Oh Ya! SHARIA!
Its a serious problem regardless of the religion in question!

That's not really accurate. They're only be able to apply US law, not christian law.

Specifically state and federal laws. Any local ordinance falls within the jurisdiction of local police, either municipal or county.

The Althing Confederacy wrote:

That's not really accurate. They're only be able to apply US law, not christian law.

While my last post was hyperbolically sarcastic, the point is that religious based police and/or militias run a serious risk of beoming intolerant and divisive; either out of nature or as a response.

If someone is religiously motivated to protect their community (a laudable desire) then they should join their law enforcement agencies and/or form registered community watches opened to anyone in their local community.

If the church security is out of control, have local police (county/municipal) arrest them.

Fartsniffage wrote:

Internationalist Bastard wrote:Well there is a school on the church grounds

I really didn't think it would be a contentious point that the ACLU might have an issue with this.

I wouldn't be surprised either that the ACLU would hate it because it has a conservative/ Christian ring to it.