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Lady Scylla
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Founded: Nov 22, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Lady Scylla » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:27 pm

Soldati Senza Confini wrote:And, again, I got into a topic I wish I didn't know so much of.

I will never see sperm the same way again, damn it Walrusvylon.


You'll soon turn into me, where you'll have relative knowledge of many things; none of it very useful.

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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:27 pm

Lady Scylla wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:Neutraligon v Internationalist Bastard: Dawn of General


Can I be Poison Ivy?

Beautiful, lethal, and able to control people with hormones?
If you want to call me by a nickname, call me Gon...or NS Batman.
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Soldati Senza Confini
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Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:27 pm

Lady Scylla wrote:
Soldati Senza Confini wrote:And, again, I got into a topic I wish I didn't know so much of.

I will never see sperm the same way again, damn it Walrusvylon.


You'll soon turn into me, where you'll have relative knowledge of many things; none of it very useful.


I already do *cries*
Soldati senza confini: Better than an iPod in shuffle more with 20,000 songs.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.

"When it’s a choice of putting food on the table, or thinking about your morals, it’s easier to say you’d think about your morals, but only if you’ve never faced that decision." - Anastasia Richardson

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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:27 pm

Walrusvylon wrote:
Neutraligon wrote: Umm if you are talking about using aborted fetus's for research, those cannot be sold for profit in the US.


Not legally. That doesn't stop planned parenthood from doing it.

Show evidence they have done so. Just so you know you are allowed to attempt to recoop costs from the transportation of fetal tissues.
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Soldati Senza Confini
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Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:28 pm

Walrusvylon wrote:
Soldati Senza Confini wrote:And, again, I got into a topic I wish I didn't know so much of.

I will never see sperm the same way again, damn it Walrusvylon.


Thank you.


No problem :p :hug:
Soldati senza confini: Better than an iPod in shuffle more with 20,000 songs.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.

"When it’s a choice of putting food on the table, or thinking about your morals, it’s easier to say you’d think about your morals, but only if you’ve never faced that decision." - Anastasia Richardson

Current Goal: Flesh out nation factbook.

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Internationalist Bastard
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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:28 pm

Lady Scylla wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:Neutraligon v Internationalist Bastard: Dawn of General


Can I be Poison Ivy?

Only if you star in a romantic relationship with Harley Quinn, cuz that ships my life
Call me Alex, I insist
I am a girl, damnit
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Walrusvylon
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Founded: Nov 04, 2016
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Postby Walrusvylon » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:28 pm

Trotza wrote:
Walrusvylon wrote:
Fair enough. Allow me to reiterate: You're lucky that your mom didn't abort you.

It's scary when you realize that they could have.

Can't feel fear if you're not born, and if you're born you have no need to fear it, so that problem kind of solves itself.


You can feel fear long before your are born. How does going from inside a uterus to outside of one change your ability to have emotions? Check yourself before you shrek yourself.
Last edited by Walrusvylon on Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reactionary rad-trad. Born between 6 and 11 centuries too late. Neocameralist some days, un-constitutional monarchist and neo-Luddite other days. Tolkien enthusiast. Neoreaction/Dark Enlightenment reader.
'Equality is the opposite of quality.'
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Paledonn
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Founded: May 19, 2014
New York Times Democracy

Postby Paledonn » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:28 pm

Galloism wrote:
Paledonn wrote:A fetus does not exist in a vasectomy. You are not reacting to something that has happened, that is preventative. There was no news, pregnancy, or new life in the world. Your analogy does not stand.

Sure it does.

X person is doing Y thing with their own body. No one is entitled to damages.

No, no child has been conceived. I am fairly certain that your body shares one genetic code. The fetus and the mother do not share the same genetic code. However, they are related. Half of the chromosomes come of the father and half the mother. In a sense, the child is half the fathers.

I am fairly certain you have one circulatory and nervous system. A fetus and the mother do not have the same circulatory and nervous system. Thus the fetus is a seperate body. A mother can die and a baby can live. A baby can die and a mother can live. This would not be the case if they were one organism. If I implanted an African fetus or zygote into a Caucasian, the fetus would not develop as a Caucasian.

If a fetus is part of the mother's body then the mother is a strange 4 armed 4 legged being with multiple sets of genetic code, 2 sets of genitalia, and 2 brains. Compounding on this strange circumstance is that half of these are uselessly stored inside, until they come out and magically are bestowed with value and protection under the law.

Besides from this, why shouldn't a father have access to the decisions involving the unborn child he helped create?

PS: Am not angry or something, and am enjoying having to substantiate my views.
Last edited by Paledonn on Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Neutraligon
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Founded: Oct 01, 2011
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Postby Neutraligon » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:28 pm

Walrusvylon wrote:
Trotza wrote:Can't feel fear if you're not born, and if you're born you have no need to fear it, so that problem kind of solves itself.


You can feel fear long before your are born. How does going from inside a uterus from outside of one change your ability to have emotions?

I am sure you can provide evidence for this too.
If you want to call me by a nickname, call me Gon...or NS Batman.
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Lady Scylla
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Founded: Nov 22, 2015
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Postby Lady Scylla » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:28 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Lady Scylla wrote:
Can I be Poison Ivy?

Beautiful, lethal, and able to control people with hormones?


Sign me up. :D

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The Portland Territory
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Posts: 14193
Founded: Dec 12, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby The Portland Territory » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:29 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
The Portland Territory wrote:A. Knowing the fact that your child's body parts are being sold is also emotionally hard
Umm if you are talking about using aborted fetus's for research, those cannot be sold for profit in the US.

Neither can marijuana in Wisconsin, but it's still relatively widely used there
Korwin-Mikke 2020
Տխերք հավակեկ բոզերա. Կոոնել կոոնելով Արաչ ենկ երտոոմ մինչեվ Բակու

16 year old Monarchist from Rhode Island. Interested in economics, governance, metaphysical philosophy, European + Near Eastern history, vexillology, faith, hunting, automotive, ranching, science fiction, music, and anime.

Pro: Absolute Monarchy, Lex Rex, Subsidiarity, Guild Capitalism, Property Rights, Tridentine Catholicism, Unlimited Gun Rights, Hierarchy, Traditionalism, Ethnic Nationalism, Irredentism
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Trotza
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Founded: Feb 03, 2016
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Postby Trotza » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:30 pm

Walrusvylon wrote:
Trotza wrote:Can't feel fear if you're not born, and if you're born you have no need to fear it, so that problem kind of solves itself.


You can feel fear long before your are born. How does going from inside a uterus to outside of one change your ability to have emotions? Check yourself before you shrek yourself.

(That last line though?)

The next time you ask a fetus if it's worried about being aborted and it says "yes", call me.
__________
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- Gustav Noske, in the face of the Communist Revolution of 1919 in Berlin

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Luminesa
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Founded: Dec 09, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Luminesa » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:30 pm

Soldati Senza Confini wrote:
Lady Scylla wrote:
You'll soon turn into me, where you'll have relative knowledge of many things; none of it very useful.


I already do *cries*

I can name multiple classic rock bands' songs by their opening notes, and can explain the meanings behind songs and why they were written...BUT THAT WON'T HELP ME PASS GEOMETRY DANG IT.

Ah, but now I am getting off-topic.
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faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:31 pm

The Portland Territory wrote:
Neutraligon wrote: Umm if you are talking about using aborted fetus's for research, those cannot be sold for profit in the US.

Neither can marijuana in Wisconsin, but it's still relatively widely used there

So once again show this is happening. And I believe that most of what is happening in Wisconsin is them not enforcing federal laws.
If you want to call me by a nickname, call me Gon...or NS Batman.
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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:33 pm

Paledonn wrote:Besides from this, why shouldn't a father have access to the decisions involving the unborn child he helped create?

PS: Am not angry or something, and am enjoying having to substantiate my views.

because his body is not affected by the pregnancy, nor is the medical procedure happen to his body. he is left physically unaffected by the woman having an abortion.
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Galloism
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:35 pm

Paledonn wrote:
Galloism wrote:Sure it does.

X person is doing Y thing with their own body. No one is entitled to damages.

No, no child has been conceived. I am fairly certain that your body shares one genetic code.


Me, yeah, but my brother has two - he's a chimera. Very rare.

The fetus and the mother do not share the same genetic code. However, they are related.


Neither does my brother's skin and his blood.

Half of the chromosomes come of the father and half the mother. In a sense, the child is half the fathers.


Let's say I accept this.

I am fairly certain you have one circulatory and nervous system. A fetus and the mother do not have the same circulatory and nervous system. Thus the fetus is a seperate body. A mother can die and a baby can live.


This is only true beyond a certain point. About 24 weeks, iirc.

A baby can die and a mother can live. This would not be the case if they were one organism. If I implanted an African fetus or zygote into a Caucasian, the fetus would not develop as a Caucasian.

If a fetus is part of the mother's body then the mother is a strange 4 armed 4 legged being with multiple sets of genetic code, 2 sets of genitalia, and 2 brains. Compounding on this strange circumstance is that half of these are uselessly stored inside, until they come out and magically are bestowed with value and protection under the law.


So I'm going to go back to Neut's question earlier. A woman cuts off her body's attachments to the fetus, not touching the fetus.

What happens next?

Besides from this, why shouldn't a father have access to the decisions involving the unborn child he helped create?


My parents created me. Do they have a right to take a pint of blood from me against my will?
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
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The Portland Territory
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Postby The Portland Territory » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:36 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
The Portland Territory wrote:Neither can marijuana in Wisconsin, but it's still relatively widely used there

So once again show this is happening. And I believe that most of what is happening in Wisconsin is them not enforcing federal laws.

The video, you know which one I'm talking about. My mom was a distributor, she dealt with transportation costs, and to ship jars does not cost $100
Korwin-Mikke 2020
Տխերք հավակեկ բոզերա. Կոոնել կոոնելով Արաչ ենկ երտոոմ մինչեվ Բակու

16 year old Monarchist from Rhode Island. Interested in economics, governance, metaphysical philosophy, European + Near Eastern history, vexillology, faith, hunting, automotive, ranching, science fiction, music, and anime.

Pro: Absolute Monarchy, Lex Rex, Subsidiarity, Guild Capitalism, Property Rights, Tridentine Catholicism, Unlimited Gun Rights, Hierarchy, Traditionalism, Ethnic Nationalism, Irredentism
Mixed: Fascism, Anarcho Capitalism, Donald Trump
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Walrusvylon
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Founded: Nov 04, 2016
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Postby Walrusvylon » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:38 pm

Pregnancy is temporary. Death is permanent.
Reactionary rad-trad. Born between 6 and 11 centuries too late. Neocameralist some days, un-constitutional monarchist and neo-Luddite other days. Tolkien enthusiast. Neoreaction/Dark Enlightenment reader.
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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:39 pm

The Portland Territory wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:So once again show this is happening. And I believe that most of what is happening in Wisconsin is them not enforcing federal laws.

The video, you know which one I'm talking about. My mom was a distributor, she dealt with transportation costs, and to ship jars does not cost $100


Umm, shipping jars in a sterile condition, yes it does. and that video was shown to be cut and clipped in ways to make it seem worse then it was by a group known for cutting and clipping things in such a way as to make people say one thing when they did not.

http://time.com/3958621/why-planned-par ... cientists/
Planned Parenthood Senior Director Deborah Nucatola says that receiving a fetus may cost $30-100 per specimen to allege that the organization violated AMA guidelines and federal law. But, as Planned Parenthood explained in a statement, the organization's policy allows recipients of fetal donations to reimburse the organization for costs associated with the donations.


http://www.factcheck.org/2015/07/unspin ... ood-video/
Sawyer, July 20: In reality, $30-100 probably constitutes a loss for [Planned Parenthood]. The costs associated with collection, processing, storage, and inventory and records management for specimens are very high. Most hospitals will provide tissue blocks from surgical procedures (ones no longer needed for clinical purposes, and without identity) for research, and cost recover for their time and effort in the range of $100-500 per case/block. In the realm of tissues for research $30-100 is completely reasonable and normal fee.
Last edited by Neutraligon on Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Trotza
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Founded: Feb 03, 2016
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Postby Trotza » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:40 pm

Walrusvylon wrote:Pregnancy is temporary. Death is permanent.

Except that child will still be there obviously, so you know it's not exactly like that means it's over and done.
__________
"If you like, someone has to be the bloodhound. I won't shy away from the responsibility."
- Gustav Noske, in the face of the Communist Revolution of 1919 in Berlin

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Galloism
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:40 pm

Walrusvylon wrote:Pregnancy is temporary. Death is permanent.

You know what else is temporary?

Rape. Kidnapping. Aggravated assault. Home invasion. Forced organ donation. Forced blood donation.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Lady Scylla
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Founded: Nov 22, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Lady Scylla » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:41 pm

Walrusvylon wrote:Pregnancy is temporary. Death is permanent.


And like that, as if through some divine inspiration, all of human conflict had been resolved they were ne'er more to despair.

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Walrusvylon
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Founded: Nov 04, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Walrusvylon » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:41 pm

Trotza wrote:
Walrusvylon wrote:
You can feel fear long before your are born. How does going from inside a uterus to outside of one change your ability to have emotions? Check yourself before you shrek yourself.

(That last line though?)

The next time you ask a fetus if it's worried about being aborted and it says "yes", call me.


You cannot be scared of something you cannot forsee. When the abortion is happening, it would be very scared. Also, fetuses can't respond to my questions.
Reactionary rad-trad. Born between 6 and 11 centuries too late. Neocameralist some days, un-constitutional monarchist and neo-Luddite other days. Tolkien enthusiast. Neoreaction/Dark Enlightenment reader.
'Equality is the opposite of quality.'
'I strongly urge you to read Moldbug!'
'I am an excellent proof-reader... after I click submit.'

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Ashmoria
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Founded: Mar 19, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ashmoria » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:41 pm

Galloism wrote:
Ashmoria wrote:wow where did that come from?

what way out does a mother have that a father doesn't?

Mothers have physical control of the child the entire time that the safe haven window exists. There is no practical way for a father to ever have physical custody unless she first cedes it to him or she gave birth while in jail (and even then it's unlikely).

Because of the way custody works after birth, even in states where the law is in text gender neutral, women and only women can effectively use such a law, either themselves or through an agent.

A father can use it if the mother consents. A mother can use it regardless of the fathers consent.

This is what's called the law being de facto sexist.

In every state, women have responsibility after birth only if they choose, and men have responsibilities only if the women choose not to surrender them.

It's poll tests with grandfather clauses all over again. I'm saying it's racist, and you're on the side of Oklahoma legislature arguing that because you didn't write "no niggers voting" into the text of the law, it's not racist.

how many times do i have to say that i have no problem with men being able to use the emergency relinquishment law?

if its difficult that's not my problem. if the mother is taking good enough care of the baby that the father is never left alone with it long enough to take it to the firehouse then its probably not an emergency situation at all. (although most states allow fathers to have visitation with their infant children that they don't live with)
whatever

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The V O I D
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Posts: 16375
Founded: Apr 13, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The V O I D » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:41 pm

Walrusvylon wrote:Pregnancy is temporary. Death is permanent.


And this changes what, exactly?

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