"Men Must Approve Abortion, Women Are Hosts"

[Neutraligon]

I support the ability of a father to give up all rights before the birth of the child. That being said we would need a much better system to support those children who are in less well off situations. Short term I think the best option is to try and improve the system so that child support does not begger the non custodial parent.

It just prolongs the conflict between the two, even as the kids grow older and try to adapt to the situation. Growing up my parents still actively hated each other, despite being separated for years. Issues with money will do that to you.

I understand that, the problem is that children need to be supported once born, and the only people who have any responsibility to a child is the parent. Unfortunately that means the non-custodial parent has to pay child support, otherwise the child will not be supported. I think a better system needs to be set up, but until then the best we can do is ensure that no one is beggered having to support a child.

[Wallenburg]

Which I just refuted. Every group/tribe/nation/country/kingdom/whatever was totalitarian. You can't say every single one ended in horrible failure.

Well how do you define facsism? I feel that it is too broad of a term. Also, why do you like facsism. (I'm not being an ass, and have an open mind right now.)

As enthralling as a conversation on fascism might be, it doesn't really pertain to the OP. Could you take this to telegrams, or create a new thread?

[Costa Fierro]

Here Neutraligon asked, "Why should men have the right to dictate a woman's medical decisions to her?" You then responded with "why shouldn't he?" Anyone with even a kindergarten familiarity with English can put two and two together.

It seems that you missed the part where I said "I never said dictate, I said have a say". As in contribute to a woman's medical decisions much in the same way women should contribute to a man's medical decisions. And I then asked "why shouldn't he", meaning why shouldn't a man have a say in women's medical decisions. After all, if I was going to have a significant medical procedure, I would want to have some discussion about it with my partner.

[Joisha]

It would be kind of difficult because It would be opposed by both sides of the argument

That seems to be the trouble with a lot of ideas, but someone has to support them.

I can already see a lot of progressives trying to convince us that this idea is somehow traditionalist. The hipocrisy will make me cringe

[Walrusvylon]

If you don't like Hitler, then why is your region Nazi Europa?

[Walrusvylon]

Well how do you define facsism? I feel that it is too broad of a term. Also, why do you like facsism. (I'm not being an ass, and have an open mind right now.)

As enthralling as a conversation on fascism might be, it doesn't really pertain to the OP. Could you take this to telegrams, or create a new thread?

Sure.

[Utceforp]

I'm quoting this for simple convenience, not as a direct reply to the above statement but just to show that I'm addressing you.

In your comment beforehand, where I accidentally stepped on some toes over my use of 'donate'. I've come up with a potential solution to the Female-on-Male rape problem. As followed:

Men do not have the authority nor right to determine whether a pregnancy must remain or be terminated; with the exception of court order in incidents involving Female-on-Male rape where the (female) Rapist may either have her pregnancy terminated on the victim's behalf, or lose all custody and rights to the child, as well, on the victim's behalf (in such case where the male might want the child -- I'm not sure why they would, but I figured it'd be a good measure there anyway). As such, no matter the choice taken, the female rapist shall have no visitation rights, nor ever be permitted to contact the father under any circumstance barring third-party legal authority in cases of medical necessity (such as, and probably the only reason: STDs and other legal filings needed for the child to establish family history).

I mean, that's all well and good, but there's a necessary societal shift before that will do any good.

I counsel men who are rape victims by memory. The most common response to men attempting to report this crime is either laughter or threats of charges for wasting police time or filing a false report.

I still encourage men to report it - shits important - but without a societal shift the above measure is hollow.

Of course - Any movement needs both legal and social change to occur for its goals to succeed.

[Neutraligon]

That seems to be the trouble with a lot of ideas, but someone has to support them.

I can already see a lot of progressives trying to convince us that this idea is somehow traditionalist. The hipocrisy will make me cringe

I am progressive, I support the idea. Although once again we need some way to ensure the children that do result from this are supported. Given that men have traditionally been the bread winner and the financial center of the family, meaning he has to support and pay fr his children I fail to see how this could be seen as traditionalist.

[Wallenburg]

Here Neutraligon asked, "Why should men have the right to dictate a woman's medical decisions to her?" You then responded with "why shouldn't he?" Anyone with even a kindergarten familiarity with English can put two and two together.

It seems that you missed the part where I said "I never said dictate, I said have a say". As in contribute to a woman's medical decisions much in the same way women should contribute to a man's medical decisions. And I then asked "why shouldn't he", meaning why shouldn't a man have a say in women's medical decisions. After all, if I was going to have a significant medical procedure, I would want to have some discussion about it with my partner.

Ah, I see. In that case, I agree with you completely. How about reflecting that opinion of yours by opposing this legislative measure instead of supporting it?

[Galloism]

I don't have a problem with men relinquishing infants. I'm just not concerned enough to make it my lifes work to change the laws in states that don't allow it.

I've noticed that "financial abortion" is really only brought as a form of whataboutism whenever actual medical abortion is discussed. I'm in favour of it, but I'd have a lot more respect for its proponents if they actually fought for their cause in some way.

Actually, it typically comes up in response to absurdly false claims - like that men and women have the same rights and responsibilities towards children after birth.

Then, in the process of debunking said absurdly false claims, its pointed out that women have rights men do not have.

[Ifreann]

Because only one of them is pregnant.

Ah, the old "women are more important than men because pregnancy" argument. Come back to me with an argument that doesn't reduce men to the role of walking sperm dispenser.

Don't believe I said anything about women being more important than men.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Does anyone else feel weird thinking about abortion, like the, there was a solid chance I could've been aborted weird feeling?

[Lady Scylla]

I'm quoting this for simple convenience, not as a direct reply to the above statement but just to show that I'm addressing you.

In your comment beforehand, where I accidentally stepped on some toes over my use of 'donate'. I've come up with a potential solution to the Female-on-Male rape problem. As followed:

Men do not have the authority nor right to determine whether a pregnancy must remain or be terminated; with the exception of court order in incidents involving Female-on-Male rape where the (female) Rapist may either have her pregnancy terminated on the victim's behalf, or lose all custody and rights to the child, as well, on the victim's behalf (in such case where the male might want the child -- I'm not sure why they would, but I figured it'd be a good measure there anyway). As such, no matter the choice taken, the female rapist shall have no visitation rights, nor ever be permitted to contact the father under any circumstance barring third-party legal authority in cases of medical necessity (such as, and probably the only reason: STDs and other legal filings needed for the child to establish family history).

I mean, that's all well and good, but there's a necessary societal shift before that will do any good.

I counsel men who are rape victims by memory. The most common response to men attempting to report this crime is either laughter or threats of charges for wasting police time or filing a false report.

I still encourage men to report it - shits important - but without a societal shift the above measure is hollow.

I don't disagree. I think the issue is, not only the inherent social problems you listed above, but also the breakdown in dialogue between Male and Female activist groups. It's an issue I want to address, and would prefer further bipartisan approaches from both sides to handle these issues, but that divide is difficult to leap across. The above measure would at least be a stepping stone in the right direction, unfortunately, it's not something that can be changed over night.

[Wallenburg]

Does anyone else feel weird thinking about abortion, like the, there was a solid chance I could've been aborted weird feeling?

Nope.

[Lady Scylla]

Does anyone else feel weird thinking about abortion, like the, there was a solid chance I could've been aborted weird feeling?

I've thought about it. My mum aborted her pregnancy before me. It doesn't bother me all that much, I wouldn't have known it.

[Lady Scylla]

If you don't like Hitler, then why is your region Nazi Europa?

Not the topic, take it to TG or leave each other alone.

[Paledonn]

Utterly disgusting and disgraceful.

I wouldn't be surprised if some parts in the US turned into a Christian version of one of the worst countries in the world, Saudi Arabia.

Because men wouldn't be traumatized to learn that their unborn child was killed. And because beating to death a woman who shows her face in public is equal to the inconvenience of getting a form signed. 1st world problems hard.

[Luminesa]

I certainly don't like the wording-a mother is not a "host", like a seahorse. She's a person, and she should be on equal footing with her husband. While the idea, which is giving a father an equal say in the life of the fetus, is not a bad one, calling the mom a "host" is an immediate turn-off. It gives the idea of a fruitful marriage between a man and a woman, which should be something that is celebrated, the tone of it being a parasite injecting harmful fluids into the woman. It's counterproductive for any Christian senator to refer to a woman as such.

[Ashmoria]

I don't have a problem with men relinquishing infants. I'm just not concerned enough to make it my lifes work to change the laws in states that don't allow it.

You should allow men to relinquish responsibility, just as the law allows women to relinquish responsibilities.

There are numerous cases of unwilling parents facing poverty by order of the court murdering their children. They should have a way out.

did you miss where I said I don't have a problem with it?

[Galloism]

Utterly disgusting and disgraceful.

I wouldn't be surprised if some parts in the US turned into a Christian version of one of the worst countries in the world, Saudi Arabia.

Because men wouldn't be traumatized to learn that their unborn child was killed. And because beating to death a woman who shows her face in public is equal to the inconvenience of getting a form signed. 1st world problems hard.

I've heard women say they're traumatized when their man has a vasectomy. She doesn't deserve damages, nor should he require her permission.

[Luminesa]

Does anyone else feel weird thinking about abortion, like the, there was a solid chance I could've been aborted weird feeling?

...I've never had that, but it sounds rather awful. Is everything okay?

[Galloism]

You should allow men to relinquish responsibility, just as the law allows women to relinquish responsibilities.

There are numerous cases of unwilling parents facing poverty by order of the court murdering their children. They should have a way out.

did you miss where I said I don't have a problem with it?

So you're ok with what are colloquially known as "paper abortions"?

[Internationalist Bastard]

Does anyone else feel weird thinking about abortion, like the, there was a solid chance I could've been aborted weird feeling?

I've thought about it. My mum aborted her pregnancy before me. It doesn't bother me all that much, I wouldn't have known it.

It's not so much it bothers me as it's like, I don't know, best I can explain it is when I've been shot at it came close to my head. Like, it's not upsetting just...damn.

[Ashmoria]

Look at the guy's flag and name - he's clearly some variety of Fascist. (Or a Fascist in denial.)

There's no point in engaging him, just ignore him.

Does KoC being a fascist somehow warrant him to be ignored? I don't see any benefit in ignoring someone based upon their political beliefs, if anything it is rather childish.

yes because there is no sense arguing back when the basis of the argument is so far out of the mainstream.

its the same as being in a political thread and suddenly realize that the poster is against your candidate because they are an anarchist and don't believe in candidates at all.

[Galloism]

Does anyone else feel weird thinking about abortion, like the, there was a solid chance I could've been aborted weird feeling?

There's a solid chance your father might have had a headache that night.

You can think about that if you prefer.