"Men Must Approve Abortion, Women Are Hosts"

[Mavorpen]

But is it by default?

That men receive custody?

It was pre feminism. Incidentally, that was also sexist and wrong.

Damn, my joke missed the mark. I was referencing the redundancy in the second sentence.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Over a lifetime.

Again, you are trying to equate things that are nonequivalent.

Alright then, men still produce 1500 sperm a second.

With less than 10 calories, if that many.

For your claims of it being costly, the human body is extremely efficient at what it does.

[Joisha]

1. That would assume the woman pays for the abortion.



2. Both men and women have to live with the consequences. I don't see why a man should be left out of the decision making process.



3. Disproving your point that men aren't affected by a pregnancy.

1. Usually, insurance does, or they receive other assistance - the husband does not have to pay for it.

2. Yes, well, traditionally speaking it goes like this: woman informs man she wants abortion, they discuss, woman either decides to abort or not to, and then goes through with her decision. This law would make it entirely the man's decision. See the problem?

3. They aren't affected biologically or as directly as the woman.

3. Being obligated to provide money for an undesired child for 10+ years is not that important apparently

[Neutraligon]

Which is again rather funny since it is based around the idea that women are the better caregivers, something that many feminists where fighting against.

Actually, at that time, many feminists were fighting for that notion. Prior to that, men were assumed to be superior parents - or, at least, more needed by their children.

True, women where fighting for any legal right to their kids. I find that it was a stupid way of doing things but I concede the point. It really is annoying that we are now fighting against that very sort of thing that we once used to gain any rights to our children.

[Galloism]

I don't know exactly how things are in the US but here where I live a woman can get child support when she's still pregnant. The father has to surrend his own body to the will of the mother and start to work. I consider being obligated to earn morney for a undesired baby for 10+ years to be a great infrigiment of a persons bodily autonomy

too bad. children have the right to be supported by both parents.

They do not, or you would be against adoption, safe haven laws, or anyone who abandons their children to relatives or the state.

[Ashmoria]

*shrug* because its a stupid question.

fathers and mothers are considered equal parents under the law in the US.

Obviously not since you have clearly illustrated the importance of prenatal maternal authority.

while pregnant a woman has control of her own body.

[Valaran]

wow lol

[Ashmoria]

too bad. children have the right to be supported by both parents.

They do not, or you would be against adoption, safe haven laws, or anyone who abandons their children to relatives or the state.

oh yes it would be SOOO Much better to have those babies DIE rather than have a way for women to hand over babies safely then sort it all out later.

[The V O I D]

1. Usually, insurance does, or they receive other assistance - the husband does not have to pay for it.

2. Yes, well, traditionally speaking it goes like this: woman informs man she wants abortion, they discuss, woman either decides to abort or not to, and then goes through with her decision. This law would make it entirely the man's decision. See the problem?

3. They aren't affected biologically or as directly as the woman.

3. Being obligated to provide money for an undesired child for 10+ years is not that important apparently

I'm also an advocate of financial abortion: if the man didn't want the child if it is born, he can sign away all parental responsibilities/finances via financial abortion. Unfortunately, this means he forfeits parental rights.

You don't get to have parental rights and yet not pay for a single thing.

[Finium]

Obviously not since you have clearly illustrated the importance of prenatal maternal authority.

while pregnant a woman has control of her own body.

While pregnant a woman has all the rights, ergo fathers and mothers are not considered equal under the law.

[Knights of Columbia]

Makes sense to me, the child belongs to both parents, and the father is the head of the family.

You've missed a few memos on modern society.

Perhaps modern society is wrong.

[Costa Fierro]

Usually, insurance does, or they receive other assistance - the husband does not have to pay for it.

Depends on whether or not the woman has health insurance.

Yes, well, traditionally speaking it goes like this: woman informs man she wants abortion, they discuss, woman either decides to abort or not to, and then goes through with her decision. This law would make it entirely the man's decision. See the problem?

Except the "discussion" part doesn't actually happen, because the woman has already made the decision to abort of she has already brought it up. Informing the man of her intentions to have an abortion is a far as it goes. So no, I don't see the problem given how women already have complete control over whether or not to have children.

They aren't affected biologically or as directly as the woman.

So...hormonal changes that prepare men for fatherhood by increasing hormones that produce nurturing feelings inside men and reduce testosterone to reduce aggressiveness in response to a woman's pregnancy is not indicative of a biological response to said pregnancy? Great. Now that we have a precedent where science is irrelevant, do you have anything else to add?

[Lady Scylla]

Makes sense to me, the child belongs to both parents, and the father is the head of the family.

And lesbians? Then what?

[Knights of Columbia]

Makes sense to me, the child belongs to both parents, and the father is the head of the family.

what recourse would you suggest when a woman gets an abortion anyway? what if she doesn't get an abortion but she also doesn't take good care of herself, theoretically putting the fetus in danger?

She should be imprisoned. Ironically enough, eliminating her genes from the pool would be the best solution.

[Wallenburg]

Why should men be compensated?

Because they're being denied the opportunity to be a father, if that is what the father wants to be.

You aren't entitled to be a parent. Just like no woman is entitled to make a man impregnate her so she can have a child, no man is entitled to force a woman to carry to term so he can have one.

The one like what my parents had, where they discuss and make decisions together, where neither one totally dominates. Where they make decisions and consider the other person's feelings. That sort of relationship.

So, something you created that conveniently disproves my opinion?

You do not live on Earth, do you?

Why should he be able to essentially make a slave of her?

Where did I say we should make women slaves?

You literally said that "men have the right to dictate a woman's medical decisions to her". That is a complete violation of her rights, and essentially makes her the man's property.

Maybe because bodily sovereignty and the right to make your own medical decisions are kinda important. Or should I be able to go about ordering that all men be sterilized?

Bodily sovereignty falls flat given humans are routinely subjected to violations of bodily sovereignty without their consent.

Really? When?

[Walrusvylon]

Why should men be compensated?

Because they're being denied the opportunity to be a father, if that is what the father wants to be.

The one like what my parents had, where they discuss and make decisions together, where neither one totally dominates. Where they make decisions and consider the other person's feelings. That sort of relationship.

So, something you created that conveniently disproves my opinion?

What do you mean have a say, what sort of legal things are you talking about?

A divorce perhaps, where the woman had an abortion and he did not want her to have one?

Why should he be able to essentially make a slave of her?

Where did I say we should make women slaves?

Maybe because bodily sovereignty and the right to make your own medical decisions are kinda important. Or should I be able to go about ordering that all men be sterilized?

Bodily sovereignty falls flat given humans are routinely subjected to violations of bodily sovereignty without their consent.

I agree. Bodily sovereignty is not really a thing. It is not mentioned in the Bill of Rights anywhere.

[Galloism]

They do not, or you would be against adoption, safe haven laws, or anyone who abandons their children to relatives or the state.

oh yes it would be SOOO Much better to have those babies DIE rather than have a way for women to hand over babies safely then sort it all out later.

Then you admit children do not have a right to support from both parents.

If you do not have the strength of your convictions, you should abandon them.

[Knights of Columbia]

Makes sense to me, the child belongs to both parents, and the father is the head of the family.

And lesbians? Then what?

I said "family". Also, two women cannot produce children.

[Ashmoria]

while pregnant a woman has control of her own body.

While pregnant a woman has all the rights, ergo fathers and mothers are not considered equal under the law.

the man still has full control over his body.

[Wallenburg]

what recourse would you suggest when a woman gets an abortion anyway? what if she doesn't get an abortion but she also doesn't take good care of herself, theoretically putting the fetus in danger?

She should be imprisoned. Ironically enough, eliminating her genes from the pool would be the best solution.

So poor pregnant women should be imprisoned if they can't afford to live comfortably? That's fucking barbaric.

[Lady Scylla]

what recourse would you suggest when a woman gets an abortion anyway? what if she doesn't get an abortion but she also doesn't take good care of herself, theoretically putting the fetus in danger?

She should be imprisoned. Ironically enough, eliminating her genes from the pool would be the best solution.

[Lady Scylla]

And lesbians? Then what?

I said "family."

And we can't have a family?

[Ashmoria]

oh yes it would be SOOO Much better to have those babies DIE rather than have a way for women to hand over babies safely then sort it all out later.

Then you admit children do not have a right to support from both parents.

If you do not have the strength of your convictions, you should abandon them.

pffft

I am not so rigid that I would let babies die instead of allowing a compassionate law to exist that can save lives.

[Trotza]

I agree. Bodily sovereignty is not really a thing. It is not mentioned in the Bill of Rights anywhere.

There are many things that exist that are not in the Bill of Rights, so that's not saying much.

[Walrusvylon]

what recourse would you suggest when a woman gets an abortion anyway? what if she doesn't get an abortion but she also doesn't take good care of herself, theoretically putting the fetus in danger?

She should be imprisoned. Ironically enough, eliminating her genes from the pool would be the best solution.

Yer a troll