"Men Must Approve Abortion, Women Are Hosts"

[Salandriagado]

Do you support mandatory blood donation?

What does the question have in relation to the abortion debate? *shoots strawman nonetheless, because of boredom*

A lot. If you answer "no", then you admit that bodily sovereignty exists, and in particular that there is a right to refuse the use of your body to support somebody else. In particular: there is a right to abortion.

[Ashmoria]

doesn't matter, if you fell down my cellar stairs you would still have to get out.

Might even give you a hand getting out.

and hope you don't sue!

[Alvecia]

Might even give you a hand getting out.

and hope you don't sue!

But there was a clear warning!

[Salandriagado]

It's allowed to try to survive on it's own so long as it doesn't invade the womans right.

You think the foetus had a choice to be in the mother's womb? You think it jumps from womb to womb going "Knock Knock" until someone lets it in?

Nope. But that still doesn't mean it gets the use of her body. If I hit someone with my car and they need a blood transfusion to stay alive, I'm still fully within my rights to refuse to donate to save them.

[Ashmoria]

What does the question have in relation to the abortion debate? *shoots strawman nonetheless, because of boredom*

A lot. If you answer "no", then you admit that bodily sovereignty exists, and in particular that there is a right to refuse the use of your body to support somebody else. In particular: there is a right to abortion.

they don't even get to take your organs after you are DEAD if you don't want them to.

[Laxaria and Sakria]

http://thefederalist.com/2017/01/30/her ... arguments/

Please read before you further the discussion, thank you

[Salandriagado]

A lot. If you answer "no", then you admit that bodily sovereignty exists, and in particular that there is a right to refuse the use of your body to support somebody else. In particular: there is a right to abortion.

they don't even get to take your organs after you are DEAD if you don't want them to.

Yeah, but I disagree with that idea, so I wasn't going to bring it up.

[Mechanisburg]

The Nazis believed that Jews, Gypsies, Gays, etc. were not legal people as well...
The foetus doesn't force anything on the mother. They don't handcuff the mother and say "GIVE ME MORE FOOD WOMAN!!" That's not how pregnancy works...

You don't understand how pregnancy works. Some highlights:

• the fetus implants itself inside the uterus of the woman (let's not go into ectopic pregnancies, or pregnancies by ftM men) - this bond is arguably worse than a pair of shackles;
• the fetus doesn't ask the woman for nutrients, it literally extracts them from her bloodstream through the umbilical arteries and veins;
• pregnancy involves an extremely long list of complications, and delivery even more so:
  
  • low blood pressure;
  • gestational diabetes;
  • iron deficiency;
  • vomiting and nausea;
  • notably, during delivery, in a significant percentage of women third degree perineal tears happen: these involve ripping of fourchette, perineal skin, vaginal mucosa, and anal sphincter, requiring surgical intervention and often leading to faecal incontinence.

To force a woman, any woman, to go through this - which is what happens when abortion is denied - would be tantamount to torture. If we somehow induced nausea and vomiting and incontinence in our prisoners, people everywhere would rise against this cruel and unusual punishment. But seemingly this is not the case when done to a pregnant woman.

[Neutraligon]

It's a step in the right direction. The fetus took two to create, and contains the DNA of both mother and father, and the woman is indeed a temporary host for an individual being. Aborting the fetus should be a joint decision. It's about time unborn children were treated as separate, individual beings (which they are) rather than an extension of the woman's body.

Fine if it is a separate being I will cut off the connection on the mother's side of things, not even touching the fetus. Now I have decaying tissue in my body that is a danger too me and so needs to be removed. No they didn't both contribute equally one provided a small part of the DNA while the other takes on all the risk.When a man can carry a pregnancy then he gets to decide when to abort.

[Tyrassueb]

You think the foetus had a choice to be in the mother's womb? You think it jumps from womb to womb going "Knock Knock" until someone lets it in?

Nope. But that still doesn't mean it gets the use of her body. If I hit someone with my car and they need a blood transfusion to stay alive, I'm still fully within my rights to refuse to donate to save them.

Interesting. Might contact my local congresswoman or senator and see if they would back such a bill as mandatory organ/blood donation if you're found at fault for causing injury

[Salandriagado]

http://thefederalist.com/2017/01/30/heres-primer-pro-life-responses-common-counter-arguments/

Please read before you further the discussion, thank you

No. Make your own fucking arguments, don't mindlessly recycle somebody else's.

[Dylar]

You think the foetus had a choice to be in the mother's womb? You think it jumps from womb to womb going "Knock Knock" until someone lets it in?

doesn't matter, if you fell down my cellar stairs you would still have to get out.

But you'd help me get up and out, yes? Or would you watch and laugh as I make my way up the stairs in pain only to probably watch me fall down again?

[Calladan]

What's all the fuss?

Explain to me, like I'm five years old, how abortion is a woman's right.

Explain to me, like I'm five years old, how it isn't.

[Alvecia]

http://thefederalist.com/2017/01/30/heres-primer-pro-life-responses-common-counter-arguments/

Please read before you further the discussion, thank you

No. Shan't.

[Salandriagado]

doesn't matter, if you fell down my cellar stairs you would still have to get out.

But you'd help me get up and out, yes? Or would you watch and laugh as I make my way up the stairs in pain only to probably watch me fall down again?

The getting out is relevant. I'd be perfectly in my rights to grab you and throw you out on your arse, if I felt that way inclined.

[Laxaria and Sakria]

http://thefederalist.com/2017/01/30/heres-primer-pro-life-responses-common-counter-arguments/

Please read before you further the discussion, thank you

No. Make your own fucking arguments, don't mindlessly recycle somebody else's.

Well, these would be the exact same arguments I'd be using.

How am I going to make a new argument when there's no new argument from the other side?

*realizes he's getting into the nitty gritty of things and flies away...hopefully for good*

[Neutraligon]

http://thefederalist.com/2017/01/30/heres-primer-pro-life-responses-common-counter-arguments/

Please read before you further the discussion, thank you

Are you unable to make arguments for yourself?

[Alvecia]

doesn't matter, if you fell down my cellar stairs you would still have to get out.

But you'd help me get up and out, yes? Or would you watch and laugh as I make my way up the stairs in pain only to probably watch me fall down again?

In this analogy I think helping them out is equivalent to abortion

[Neutraligon]

No. Make your own fucking arguments, don't mindlessly recycle somebody else's.

Well, these would be the exact same arguments I'd be using.

How am I going to make a new argument when there's no new argument from the other side?

*realizes he's getting into the nitty gritty of things and flies away...hopefully for good*

Maybe there are no other arguments from the other side because your side can't come up with new reasons to deny a fundamental right to a woman. And yes, the Supreme Court has declared the right to an abortion as a fundamental right.

[Laxaria and Sakria]

http://thefederalist.com/2017/01/30/heres-primer-pro-life-responses-common-counter-arguments/

Please read before you further the discussion, thank you

Are you unable to make arguments for yourself?

That's basically what I would be saying.

How am I making a new argument when the other side has nothing new to toss??

*third IS a charm, so toodles*

[Neutraligon]

Are you unable to make arguments for yourself?

That's basically what I would be saying.

How am I making a new argument when the other side has nothing new to toss??

*third IS a charm, so toodles*

I already replied to this. Why should we have to make up an argument when the Supreme Court has already declared abortion a fundamental right. It is now you who have to come up with a reason why it should then be restricted. Since it is you who faces that burden, and you who fails to come up with new arguents, why do you expect us to have to come with new ones to counter your rather shitty ones.

[Laxaria and Sakria]

Well, these would be the exact same arguments I'd be using.

How am I going to make a new argument when there's no new argument from the other side?

*realizes he's getting into the nitty gritty of things and flies away...hopefully for good*

Maybe there are no other arguments from the other side because your side can't come up with new reasons to deny a fundamental right to a woman. And yes, the Supreme Court has declared the right to an abortion as a fundamental right.

Explain how abortion is a right. No "bodily autonomy" arguments.

And hey, who fired the abortion shots first?

*third WASN'T a charm so hopefully fourth IS a charm so, hopefully, toodles hopefully for good*

[Neutraligon]

Maybe there are no other arguments from the other side because your side can't come up with new reasons to deny a fundamental right to a woman. And yes, the Supreme Court has declared the right to an abortion as a fundamental right.

Expound how abortion is a right.

And hey, who fired the abortion shots first?

Simple, the Supreme Court has declared it to be so. THat easy enough for you? If you want a more indepth reason I would suggest reading Roe-v-Wade the subsequent court cases, and the ones that court case is based on.
Huh? Well, since abortion has been around for millenia hard to know. Not sure why that is relevant.

[Dylar]

The Nazis believed that Jews, Gypsies, Gays, etc. were not legal people as well...
The foetus doesn't force anything on the mother. They don't handcuff the mother and say "GIVE ME MORE FOOD WOMAN!!" That's not how pregnancy works...

You don't understand how pregnancy works. Some highlights:

• the fetus implants itself inside the uterus of the woman (let's not go into ectopic pregnancies, or pregnancies by ftM men) - this bond is arguably worse than a pair of shackles;
• the fetus doesn't ask the woman for nutrients, it literally extracts them from her bloodstream through the umbilical arteries and veins;
• pregnancy involves an extremely long list of complications, and delivery even more so:
  
  • low blood pressure;
  • gestational diabetes;
  • iron deficiency;
  • vomiting and nausea;
  • notably, during delivery, in a significant percentage of women third degree perineal tears happen: these involve ripping of fourchette, perineal skin, vaginal mucosa, and anal sphincter, requiring surgical intervention and often leading to faecal incontinence.

To force a woman, any woman, to go through this - which is what happens when abortion is denied - would be tantamount to torture. If we somehow induced nausea and vomiting and incontinence in our prisoners, people everywhere would rise against this cruel and unusual punishment. But seemingly this is not the case when done to a pregnant woman.

Probably because childbirth is the action of bringing a new life into this world? What, you thought it was a punishment for some non-existent crime? Get outta 'ere.

[Laxaria and Sakria]

Expound how abortion is a right.

And hey, who fired the abortion shots first?

Simple, the Supreme Court has declared it to be so. THat easy enough for you?
Huh? Well, since abortion has been around for millenia hard to know. Not sure why that is relevant.

Supreme Court declaring it isn't enough evidence. Or, rather, tell me the motivation why Supreme Court did that.

Later guys, because the fifth is telling to really get into the nitty gritty of things.