"Men Must Approve Abortion, Women Are Hosts"

[Internationalist Bastard]

So let's do it like they do on the discovery channel.
I've honestly used that song to pick up guys

To be fair if an attractive lady went up to most men and used any variation of "Let's sex", it'd probably be pretty successful.

Sure, but using lyrics from Bloodhound Gang is way funnier

[Alvecia]

Many higher mammals enjoy sexual behaviour enjoyable without procreation. We evolved to find sex pleasurable, and it's our prerogative as humans to choose to exploit it.

However, we're not animals. Sure, we're part of the animal kingdom and all, but we're much more civilised, and I'm not making this any better am I?

On a serious note, your argument doesn't make much sense here. You're essentially saying "We are not bound by our animalistic instincts, so lets not use sex for anything other than it's base function".
Surely the argument is the other way around?

[Ifreann]

Not your fetus, not your body, not your right to dictate to a woman what medical decisions she makes. Women deciding what to do with her own body and making her own medical choices is equal to a man having the same rights.

It does not make sence. The fetus is not only her property, but also that of the man. Without my spern she could not have the fetus. So, a man should have a say.

Even if we accept that the unborn is partially the man's property, why would a woman need a man's permission to remove his property from her uterus?

---

If it was consensual sex gone wrong I don't see why the man couldn't have a say in it. Although obviously this should be different in cases of rape or incest or more unpleasant incidents.

However shouldn't the man also have a say in if the women should get an abortion? Like what if the mother is completely deluded and the father doesn't want to have the baby, shouldn't the man have the ability to say "yes, have an abortion"? I mean after all he's going to be taking of that thing too.

This. The system is fucking up man. After the birth, they expect than man to pay allimentation, yet they do not want that a man have a say about the fetus.

Parenthood isn't the same as pregnancy.

[Internationalist Bastard]

It does not make sence. The fetus is not only her property, but also that of the man. Without my spern she could not have the fetus. So, a man should have a say.

Even if we accept that the unborn is partially the man's property, why would a woman need a man's permission to remove his property from her uterus?

---

This. The system is fucking up man. After the birth, they expect than man to pay allimentation, yet they do not want that a man have a say about the fetus.

Parenthood isn't the same as pregnancy.

It's similer to say, you left your shit in my apartment, I'm throwing it out

[Dylar]

I never said that it wasn't pleasureable, did I? Maybe two cups of black coffee can blind my vision...Anyway, all I'm saying is that sex is a tool used to create life. So by all means go have pleasureable sex, just as long as you're intending to do it to create a child.

If you're just doing it for the sake of pleasure, then you're just lusting over the woman you love, which is a sin, but I'm guessing the lot of you are atheists and don't really care, so ignore this last part, unless you want a religious war on this forum post.

[Ashmoria]

I really am mixed on this issue, while I believe a woman has the right to do what she wishes with her body, I am the same way against abortion quietly because every abortion is a person who may or may not make an impact on history, and now we will never know. Though I don't agree with calling a woman a host I do understand the idea behind at least letting the father know, because some men actually want to raise a child, and would be very heartbroken if all of a sudden their spouse or significant other came up to them and said they aborted their child. We've got to remember this can have just as serious an emotional effect on the father as it can the mother,they should have the right to at least know it's happening rather than having an emotional burden given to them by surprise

it isn't an easy issue.

i have decided to trust women to make the best decision for their own lives. sure women (and men but men don't get abortions) make mistakes and bad decisions about lots of things all the time but *I* certainly cant make a better decision for her than she can for herself and blanket laws cant cover all the circumstances that exist in people's lives.

and it seems to me that in the 45ish years since roe v wade was issued that there have been no bad effects from abortion on demand. so perhaps granting women the right to control her body, life, medical decisions in this way is a good idea.

[Dylar]

However, we're not animals. Sure, we're part of the animal kingdom and all, but we're much more civilised, and I'm not making this any better am I?

On a serious note, your argument doesn't make much sense here. You're essentially saying "We are not bound by our animalistic instincts, so lets not use sex for anything other than it's base function".
Surely the argument is the other way around?

Just ignore that little bit of words called a sentence. I think my coffee's affecting me...

[Bria Atan]

I never said that it wasn't pleasureable, did I? Maybe two cups of black coffee can blind my vision...Anyway, all I'm saying is that sex is a tool used to create life. So by all means go have pleasureable sex, just as long as you're intending to do it to create a child.

If you're just doing it for the sake of pleasure, then you're just lusting over the woman you love, which is a sin, but I'm guessing the lot of you are atheists and don't really care, so ignore this last part, unless you want a religious war on this forum post.

One does not necessarily have to be irreligious to use sex as a tool for pleasure.

[Ashmoria]

its just a fact

in the creation of a baby the father contributes half a cell. that cell goes on to become a full baby if the pregnancy is successful

that's not nothing but it surely doesn't give him the right to force a woman to continue a pregnancy she doesn't want.

By that logic, does it not also mean that because the man doesn't really have a role in the creation of the fetus/baby that he should be allowed to have a paper abortion?

only if you want to entirely remake society such that the mother is the ONLY parent of the child.

not my first choice.

[Internationalist Bastard]

I never said that it wasn't pleasureable, did I? Maybe two cups of black coffee can blind my vision...Anyway, all I'm saying is that sex is a tool used to create life. So by all means go have pleasureable sex, just as long as you're intending to do it to create a child.

If you're just doing it for the sake of pleasure, then you're just lusting over the woman you love, which is a sin, but I'm guessing the lot of you are atheists and don't really care, so ignore this last part, unless you want a religious war on this forum post.

Well that ruins the pleasure. Besides, I literally can't have kids

[Gravlen]

Oh? What obligates them?


Sex isn't only for procreation, and pregnancy isn't a necessary consequence of having sex.

Uh, sex is for procreation its because of the damned pornography that altered your understanding of sex. Porn dictates that sex is used for pleasure, nothing more. What it really is for is the procreation of human life.

Source?

Anything other than that is perverse, and an abomination.

This sounds like value terms, and not scientific concepts. Thus they aren't really persuasive when I don't share your values.

Also the definition of consequence is the direct effect of a choice. It can be good, it can be bad.

So HIV or gonorrhea, both being possible (bad) consequences of a choice, shouldn't be treated?

Pregnancy is a good consequence.

Not always.

[Ifreann]

Even if we accept that the unborn is partially the man's property, why would a woman need a man's permission to remove his property from her uterus?

---

Parenthood isn't the same as pregnancy.

It's similer to say, you left your shit in my apartment, I'm throwing it out

Pretty much.

---

I never said that it wasn't pleasureable, did I? Maybe two cups of black coffee can blind my vision...Anyway, all I'm saying is that sex is a tool used to create life. So by all means go have pleasureable sex, just as long as you're intending to do it to create a child.

If you're just doing it for the sake of pleasure, then you're just lusting over the woman you love, which is a sin, but I'm guessing the lot of you are atheists and don't really care, so ignore this last part, unless you want a religious war on this forum post.

Exactly why should your personal beliefs on sex be written into law and limit people's rights to live their own lives and control their own bodies?

[Ashmoria]

I never said that it wasn't pleasureable, did I? Maybe two cups of black coffee can blind my vision...Anyway, all I'm saying is that sex is a tool used to create life. So by all means go have pleasureable sex, just as long as you're intending to do it to create a child.

If you're just doing it for the sake of pleasure, then you're just lusting over the woman you love, which is a sin, but I'm guessing the lot of you are atheists and don't really care, so ignore this last part, unless you want a religious war on this forum post.

that's so sad.

[Olivaero]

I never said that it wasn't pleasureable, did I? Maybe two cups of black coffee can blind my vision...Anyway, all I'm saying is that sex is a tool used to create life. So by all means go have pleasureable sex, just as long as you're intending to do it to create a child.

If you're just doing it for the sake of pleasure, then you're just lusting over the woman you love, which is a sin, but I'm guessing the lot of you are atheists and don't really care, so ignore this last part, unless you want a religious war on this forum post.

Why isn't sex a tool for pleasure with creating life a secondary function? I mean sex is pleasurable far more often than it actually creates life.

[Sotral]

I never said that it wasn't pleasureable, did I? Maybe two cups of black coffee can blind my vision...Anyway, all I'm saying is that sex is a tool used to create life. So by all means go have pleasureable sex, just as long as you're intending to do it to create a child.

If you're just doing it for the sake of pleasure, then you're just lusting over the woman you love, which is a sin, but I'm guessing the lot of you are atheists and don't really care, so ignore this last part, unless you want a religious war on this forum post.

Please explain why anyone should adhere to your feelings about sex. You're free to see things that way, but until you provide a conpelling argument as to why your feelings should matter, they don't matter in the grand scheme of things.

[Internationalist Bastard]

I never said that it wasn't pleasureable, did I? Maybe two cups of black coffee can blind my vision...Anyway, all I'm saying is that sex is a tool used to create life. So by all means go have pleasureable sex, just as long as you're intending to do it to create a child.

If you're just doing it for the sake of pleasure, then you're just lusting over the woman you love, which is a sin, but I'm guessing the lot of you are atheists and don't really care, so ignore this last part, unless you want a religious war on this forum post.

that's so sad.

Not mention how I'm not an atheist while being a slut

[Dragonthigh]

EVERYBODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What if a woman is kidnapped and raped and eventually escaped, but she needed the person who kidnapped her's permission to get an abortion after getting pregnant! That is sick and disgusting! Because it says the FATHER has to approve! Not husband, but FATHER A.K.A. the RAPIST!
She didn't choose to have sex and carry a baby, but if that law gets passed, she will have to give birth to the child of a kidnapper and rapist!

[Ashmoria]

that's so sad.

Not mention how I'm not an atheist while being a slut

everyone knows that religious sluts are the best time.

[Ifreann]

EVERYBODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't need to scream, citizen.

[Gravlen]

Don't practice Safe Sex, pay the consequences.

Choosing to have an abortion is a possible consequence you might have to / want to pay. Don't imagine that abortions cannot be incredibly hard on the person physically (potentially fatally) and/or mentally.

Also, you logic fails, since you can become pregnant even when having safe sex.

[Ashmoria]

EVERYBODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What if a woman is kidnapped and raped and eventually escaped, but she needed the person who kidnapped her's permission to get an abortion after getting pregnant! That is sick and disgusting! Because it says the FATHER has to approve! Not husband, but FATHER A.K.A. the RAPIST!
She didn't choose to have sex and carry a baby, but if that law gets passed, she will have to give birth to the child of a kidnapper and rapist!

there is probably a work around for that one.

[Dylar]

Has anyone noticed that we strayed off from the main arguement of the post? Other than that...

that's so sad.

Not mention how I'm not an atheist while being a slut

What's sad about sharing my opinion on a forum post that's meant for liberals and conservatives alike to share their opinions on an issue that shakes this nation(The U.S.)? Also, can we just have a civilized conversation without trying to kill the other person that opposes your beliefs?

[Ifreann]

Has anyone noticed that we strayed off from the main arguement of the post? Other than that...

Not mention how I'm not an atheist while being a slut

What's sad about sharing my opinion on a forum post that's meant for liberals and conservatives alike to share their opinions on an issue that shakes this nation(The U.S.)? Also, can we just have a civilized conversation without trying to kill the other person that opposes your beliefs?

No one's trying to kill you. Get over yourself.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Has anyone noticed that we strayed off from the main arguement of the post? Other than that...

Not mention how I'm not an atheist while being a slut

What's sad about sharing my opinion on a forum post that's meant for liberals and conservatives alike to share their opinions on an issue that shakes this nation(The U.S.)? Also, can we just have a civilized conversation without trying to kill the other person that opposes your beliefs?

You're right, but you also assumed my beliefs based on my sexuality

[Internationalist Bastard]

Not mention how I'm not an atheist while being a slut

everyone knows that religious sluts are the best time.

Hey, wanna achieve enlightenment